Depression NOT linked to low serotonin.

[Eyesopenwideawake]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11027847/Depression-NOT-caused-low-serotonin-levels-study.html

Yeah, I know it's the Fail but also in the Times (behind a paywall)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/antidepressants-study-casts-doubt-on-drugs-taken-by-8m-people-db2dsb9zf

Sorry drug companies, the party is almost over...

But if they have a ‘placebo’ effect then surely you wouldn’t get side effects? Because they’re working for you? How come side effects aren’t placebo and therapeutic effects are?

This is interesting because I have a fun depression that comes from no where, drags me down to rock bottom for 6 months to 2 years and then I wake up one day and it’s gone.
when I’ve tried SSRI’s they make me physically feel great, I can breathe deeper, exercise for hours and it’s like my whole body is relieved from an inflammation but there’s still no hope in my world. Dr has never been able to explain it but if I could take them when I was well I could rule the world.

I think the placebo effect idea is a bit of a red herring as it's clearly doing something or so many people, including those with dementia (it improves mood and often makes them calmer) have a significant improvement on them however what they're saying is low serotonin is not the cause of depression. It doesn't mean that preventing the reuptake of it isn't doing something. If you think about the drug ecstacy which massivley increases serotonin and also makes people feel amazing, then clearly serotonin can make you feel good.

I don't care. They work for me. How they work is immaterial. I tried lots of things before relenting and going on ADs and none did anything.

Clearly the placebo effect won't eliminate all side-effects caused by all drugs otherwise nobody would ever get side-effects at all. In fact placebos with some irritating but essentially harmless side effects can work better for their intended purpose than pure sugar pills, because they feel more effective.

There's a well-evidenced "nocebo" effect as well whereby pills that you expect to make you feel lousy due to side effects do, even if you're actually getting sugar pills.

But l took one antidepressant which I’d taken twice before with no issues. The 3rd time it sent me crazy. How is that placebo?

Also, they decrease brain inflammation which can cause depression.

That's not placebo, that's a side effect.

Drugs have side effects. One side effect is that they (usually) treat the illness but they have others as well. A drug that's a placebo (and not a sugar pill, which is the 'true' placebo) will still have side effects.

Source?

It’s a well known connection. There’s loads on it.

Take your pick.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=antidepressant+brain+inflammation&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#ip=1

Not the opposite. It shows a significant placebo effect and a small treatment effect over placebo. So is it worth taking such a drug when you also balance that against known side effects?

Unfortunately ADs do have important ingredients other than sugar which means they will have effects on the body somehow. As others say, there can be harmful placebo effects too (if you believe so) called the nocebo.

I learnt all about it in Placebo: mind over matter in modern medicine by Dylan Evans. The author also talks about the link of depression with the inflammatory response.

This. There is no chance whatsoever that I would be affected by the placebo effect, as I absolutely 100% did not believe my sertraline would work for me.

It has.

It's changed and saved my life.

My OH went on anti d's, I didn't think they'd had any effect although he said he felt different - more distant. When he came off them though I really noticed the difference he went right back to being more angry and miserable.

Just because depression isn't caused by low serotonin of course doesn't mean that raising serotonin won't help. As the article says a lack of paracetamol doesn't cause headaches but they still help.

Yes it absolutely is worth taking the drug!

Otherwise the black terrifying miasma inside you kills you. In my case it would be by slitting my wrists. When the sirens of suicide call tok loud to ignore, when the swirling black malevolent mists inside you swallow you whole, even though you don’t feel like you exist.

So yeah, you know it is worth taking them, to, yoh know actually stay alive.

If you read the package inserts for the medications they basically tell you this. The stats on there (and those will be from the best possible tests they did, they are allowed to pick the most favourable and leave out the bad) show these meds increase suicidality and do practically nothing to decrease depressive states.

Being depressed or feeling depressed may not even be a clinical condition. What if some wealthy pharmaceutical moguls sat around a table and thought up a name for a state that we all get into, a tablet that would lock you into neurological changes that would prevent coming off them, even forever? How rich they could become all while being praised for helping people.

Just imagine of an industry was that corrupt, can't be .... or.... can it and there are libraries worth of books on just that subject dating back to the industry's very origination?

If you read the package inserts for the medications they basically tell you this. The stats on there (and those will be from the best possible tests they did, they are allowed to pick the most favourable and leave out the bad) show these meds increase suicidality and do practically nothing to decrease depressive states.

I don't think this is accurate, and it's quite irresponsible to be posting something like this on a forum where there are so many vulnerable people questioning whether ADs are worth trying.

There are many studies showing that ADs perform better than placebos. Sometimes they make some people worse, but there's no evidence that any particular AD increases the overall risk of suicide.

@ihavenocats Have you ever had mental illness? That’s paralysed you?

@ihavenocats and would you be able to post a picture or quote from any AD packaging which actually says that it's ineffective for depression?

I would not care if they work as placebo, on serotonin levels or are powered by magic fairy dust, I just want something that will take away my overwhelming anxiety and depression, which has been a constant (unwelcome) companion for years.
I know there are many who are pro alternatives such as CBT, talking therapies, healthy eating, exercise etc but for some of us as much as we pore every ounce of energy into the aforementioned, they do diddly squat.
I there is a pill to help me then I have reached a point where I would be in 7th heaven if they make me feel well again and won’t give a toss how it works.

Being depressed or feeling depressed may not even be a clinical condition. What if some wealthy pharmaceutical moguls sat around a table and thought up a name for a state that we all get into, a tablet that would lock you into neurological changes that would prevent coming off them, even forever? How rich they could become all while being praised for helping people

But that’s not what happened! The first anti depressants were made for something else. Then people noticed that patients were becoming much happier.

As others have said, they stop me wanting to drive off a bridge, I don't give a shiny shite how they achieve that.

It has been said for decades not sure why it is news.

Exactly. I resisted ADs for years. When I finally relented (as it was that or suicide), it took 3 attempts to get on them. First a tricyclic, then an SSRI, and finally Mirtazapine. The first two just gave me awful side effects. The SSRI actually made me feel worse. With Mirtazapine I started to feel slight improvements initially with my anxiety only within a few weeks. And then further improvements over time as as my side was increased.

If it was placebo only why were first two drugs not effective? I think it's much more complicated as stated further down in the article. There are multiple causes for depression and just because depression might not be caused by low serotonin it due any mean that raised serotonin won't help it, at least in some people.

Ditto
I hope this doesn't get trotted out as an excuse by docs

i've been on meds 25+ years and tried to come off with no luck.

I’ve paid 2k for a private pysch over the past 2 years due to no nhs. It took that long to sort me out. No way am l ever going to stop my placebos.