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Original poster

how to convince someone that they are being financially scammed?

31 replies

whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 30/12/2021 20:51

They refuse to see that facts that are staring them in the face.
They refuse to listen to the police who tell them it's a scam.
They refuse to listen to the bank manager who tells them it's a scam.
They refuse to listen to family and friends who tell them it's a scam.
We think it's because they are in so deep, have sent them so much money over such a long period of time that to admit it's a scam now is just too much to take.

What approaches can we try? How can we get inside their head, like the criminals have done?

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 31/12/2021 08:56

bump.
wrong topic perhaps but I chose this as I think the victim is now mentally unstable (right/wrong choice of words??) over this situation.

OP posts:
Palavah · 31/12/2021 08:58

I don't have any advice where the police and bank have struggled, but didn't want to read and run. It sounds really hard.

Have you spoken to any charities that deal with fraud? The bank may be able to direct you.

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 31/12/2021 11:52

thanks palavah

The banks and Action Fraud have been as helpful as they can be but until we can get him too accept it's fraud, we are stuck.
I'm searching for a new approach to persuade him as all our methods so far are failing, which is common apparently in lots of cases.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 31/12/2021 11:56

Is it to a person? Is it an older man to a younger woman, perhaps abroad? Trying to understand the nature of the scam in order to give advice, as you need to know why they’re acting as they are.

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 31/12/2021 11:57

My mil was scammed out of at least 80k. Took her 6 years to realise for herself..

Palavah · 31/12/2021 13:14

Has the bank got a vulnerable customer team /financial abuse team? Can you see if you can speak to them? They may be able to put some additional controls in place.

What does the victim think the money they are sending is to be used for?

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 31/12/2021 15:57

Thanks for the posts.

Sorry to hear about your MIL Santahatesbraisedcabbage. This is in no way a competition but this has been gong on for longer and involves quite a lot more money Sad

I believe the victim is not accepting the obvious signs that it is a scam because

  1. He is in too deep. We are talking £100s of thousands.
  2. The scammers have befriended him. This has become his life.
  3. He's told too many people about his upcoming 'windfall'
  4. He's borrowed too much money that has been sent to the scammers and so is in debt.
  5. Accepting that he has lost so much money is unthinkable and so he chooses to keep his head in the sand

There are actually 2 scams running simultaneously. One is to do with land, the other with shares.

The bank have been very helpful but they don't have a psychologist available for us to use, and that's what I think we need. Someone with experience of the victim/scammer relationship who might offer us some insight.

OP posts:
MondeoFan · 31/12/2021 15:57

How old is the person who is being scammed?
Do you think deep down they know but don't want to admit it? Or they really think they are not being scammed?

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 31/12/2021 16:02

I'm really not sure Mondeo. I think on some level he must know - the signs are all obvious to everyone else.

He's early 80s. Alert, lively, still works occasionally, tells rubbish jokes, opinionated....

OP posts:
Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 31/12/2021 16:05

My mil got her just desserts actually!!
Sorry for your friend op. Sounds hideous..

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 31/12/2021 19:51
Confused
OP posts:
HappyThursdays · 31/12/2021 19:58

You can't in my experience

We actually went to a doctor to see if we could get power of attorney but we couldn't

In the end the lawyers/police said if someone is willingly giving money away there isn't anything anyone can do if they cannot be declared mentally incapable

I think it becomes a pride thing - they can't admit they were wrong even if they start to suspect they might be

BoodleBug51 · 31/12/2021 20:07

This happened to a family friend. The long and short of it is that if they have capacity, there is not actually anything that you can do.

This person was sending thousands of £s to online dating scammers..... for flights to come to the UK, urgent help getting out of a corrupt country/army etc. Went on for months and in the end, they'd given away all of their savings and were up to their eyeballs in debt (loans, overdrafts etc). Police and medical professionals were literally hand tied over it.

They will incidentally still argue that their family "stopped" these people coming to love and look after them............which is precisely what their family are already doing. It's really sad.

thefourgp · 31/12/2021 20:14

There’s nothing you can do. I know an elderly man who’s family pleaded and tried to stop him. The branch staff did everything they could to warn him and prevent it happening when he was adamant “it’s his money and they’ve no right to withhold it from him. he can give it to whoever he wants”. He sent the scammer his life savings, realised it was a scam then complained to the bank and went to the financial ombudsman service to try and force the bank to pay him compensation when they’d done nothing wrong. He didn’t get a penny back. I doubt your friend will either.

MrsMigginsEggNogShoppe · 31/12/2021 20:17

Sorry to hear this OP.

This happened to my DM. We went to the Police who pretty much said if she wanted to give her money away then nobody could stop her. In the end my DB managed to get hold of her computer and found all the communications from the scammers. He actually spoke to someone at Action Fraud who did take it seriously. The scammers had pretended to be a man working for the UN and basically love bombed her, pretended to want to come to the UK and marry her, but of course needed money to be able to do that. In the end she lost about £12k, mostly sent by bank transfer.

Eventually the Police did get involved and the perpetrators were found, arrested and found guilty in court last year. My DM did get her money back too as the scammers were a bit thick and actually left the money in their bank accounts.

My DM refused to believe she was being scammed and it was so hard to try and make her see sense. It was a pride thing - she absolutely would not believe that she'd be conned even though to everyone else it was blatantly obvious.

LIZS · 31/12/2021 20:22

Can you access help via Age UK or Adult Social Services? Does anyone have POA? Unfortunately scammers prey on the vulnerable and once one succeeds others may follow. How are they communicating, can they be blocked?

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 01/01/2022 17:15

Thank again for the extra posts.

We have everything in place that can be in place while the victim still does not acknowledge that it's a scam.

What I'm trying to find, is a suggested approach that targets the presumably brainwashed mind that the victim has? Normal, regular, plausible approaches have all failed so far; we need something innovative, a different psychological approach that might work.

OP posts:
ferrychristmas · 01/01/2022 17:25

Ask lots of questions, in a genuinely interested, curious way.
Don't criticise the scam/investment opportunity- be really interested in how it works, and then what, why how etc.
If the person isn't on the defensive and has to really think about what's going in they may get to some realisation/acceptance of what is actually going on.

This is probably best done by someone who hasn't previously been saying 'but can't you see it's a scam' if there is a friend or family member who hasn't been involved up to now. Might even be coming from a ' can I get a piece of the action' angle and so justifiably asking ALL the questions.

People can more easily shift position if not on the defensive.

And this person probably does have doubts but can't bear to admit to themselves that they've been taken in to such an extent - v common human trait.

Must be agony to watch, good luck!! And it is on them, if they don't want to be rescued it's on them.

Saralyn · 01/01/2022 17:31

I listened to a really interesting podcast about this topic recently.

It looks at victims of scams from a psychological point of view.

hiddenbrain.org/podcast/when-you-need-it-to-be-true/

It is party about a cult and party about a woman who was the victim of a love scam. Both the woman and her friends are interviewed, and talk about why it was so difficult for her to accept that it was a scam even though it was very clear to her friends. It explains the psychology around it really well.

Maybe it can be useful for you.

Cornishqween · 01/01/2022 18:00

I recently listened to a podcast on exactly this, I wonder if you could show it to him so that he can understand there is no shame in this, and that he's not foolish, or silly...

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ted-talks-kids-and-family/id470623175?i=1000544361347

Often people won't accept because they feel embarrassed or ashamed. Hope he can accept some help soon and stop the abuse from these criminals

babouchette · 01/01/2022 18:00

Could you take it to the press? Jill Insley at the Times or Sally Hamilton at the Telegraph both write "consumer champion" columns and may be able to help. You would need to know the details though.

Original poster
whoknewlifecouldbesocruel · 02/01/2022 16:00

Thanks you for the posts. I'm going to listen to the podcasts now.

We know there is nothing to be done to recover any of the money.

I have been in touch with Jill Insley (from The TImes) and she concurred that because the victim does not accept that he is the victim, the banks and police, Action Fraud etc are unable to do anything . She was unable to provide any suggestions re ways to convince him.

I shall sign off now as I can only allow this so much head space as it's quite emotionally draining/upsetting (a very close family member has been severely financially impacted but this situation).

Thank you all for your advise/concern/help. It's much appreciated.

OP posts:
babouchette · 02/01/2022 19:27

I'm really sorry OP. What a terrible situation. The people that commit these scams deserve to rot in jail.

Lougle · 02/01/2022 19:35

Can you block the communications in some way? Change of phone number, email address, etc.?

AM85 · 31/05/2023 21:52

Hi,

I have just seen this and am going through exactly the same thing. I wondered if you had managed to move any further forward with this as I am also struggling to see what other steps can be taken.