Can’t cope with depressed DD aged 15

[Multitaskingmadly]

I’m at my wits end parenting my DD who has pretty serious mental health issues. Tbh this is more of a rant than anything I expect a solution to, although if anyone has any positive experience and has been through this it would be nice to fear! My DD has displayed signs of severe anxiety since she was tiny but it really kicked off when she was 10 and refused to go to school. I won’t go into details about that time but after a year of trying literally everything we ended up on the advice of doctors at CAMSH putting her on meds. We had a couple of good years but then she slipped back down again and frankly has been sinking up and down again down the past 3 years. She’s now 15- the second lockdown tipped her into a deep depression. She has been self harming, and when she’s at home she just lies in bed with a grey face refusing to engage. She has stopped seeing her therapist, and her psychiatrist at Camsh has put her max does of fluoxetine but it seems to have made her worse. She is just about going to school (3 days a week) but sits out of most lessons. She hasn’t opened a school book at home in a year. I am trying SO HARD to get her to speak to me but she shuts me out and just says ‘go away, I don’t want to talk’ She won’t do any activities apart from scroll scroll scroll all the time on her phone. If I ever try and push back a bit and suggest she does some revision, or for example today I asked her to write a Father’s Day card and even gave one to her, and actually gave her a stern talk that after 6 hours and repeated asking she didn’t do it, she then goes even more grey and depressed and then I feel guilty and like a bad parent. It’s just SO HARD. All the joy has been sucked from this family. She is dragging us all down. My husband and I have just started therapy ourselves to try and keep it together. I’m so bloody worried about her- and also if I am totally honest I feel so resentful to her too as she’s so incredibly difficult to parent and it’s doing my head in as I don’t know what to do.

That sounds unbelievably difficult and your feelings make sense to me. I think getting some therapy for you is a really good idea. You are clearly a good parent doing your best in a difficult situation. Do you think there could be any other help and time off that could be organised for you?

For your DD since her treatment seems not to really be working just now, are you satisfied that they have her diagnosis right? Is there anything you think CAMHS should be doing differently?

Hi Multi,

I remember being depressed from about 12 and it was only in the last year that i realised that it coincidences with my cycle. Honestly i have also felt depressed and anxious although i had no reason to be. Had no energy or motivation to get up. i now take high dose vit d and iron tablets. i got diagnosed with lupus in the last few years too which i realised exacerbated by depression when i was having flare ups so take my normal meds for that. I notice when i havent taken my iron and vit d so much and as soon as i take it i feel so much better. pls check her cycle and hormones and vit d levels.

Hi Multi, It sounds like such a difficult situation. Please don't be too hard on yourself as it sounds like you are doing everything you can for your daughter.

Does your daughter do any activities outside of school? Or any hobbies? I'm just wondering if she could find something, that's not school, that she might enjoy doing. Is there anything she used to do that she could go take up again?

It wouldn't matter if she joined something but didn't make every session just getting her out of the house to do something fun with kids her age might help. Is there anything that she likes doing (other than scrolling on her phone!) that you could use as a way in? Does she have any friends from school that she could invite round?

It sounds like she's really stuck at the moment. Have you thought about getting her a tutor to help with some of her school work? Although at secondary most tutors specialise in one subject if you were to explain the situation a lot of tutors can give general help/advice for other subjects. This might make her feel more on top of her school work and more able to face going in.

I think it's great that you are getting some counselling as well. You need to look after yourself so that you can keep looking after your daughter.

Xxx

Oh god, this sounds awful and I am so full of sympathy for you. We are similar but DD is younger and maybe slightly more engaged with life generally, she’s not on meds.

Something Camhs suggested which initially sounded counter intuitive and unhelpful but has seemed to at least keep communication open is sending notes or text messages which are light hearted and loving rather than hoping for face to face engagement. Also making what they termed ‘peace offerings’ little unprompted gestures of sweets or small gifts. It’s hard as she doesn’t really deserve them I suppose but it’s nice to see her momentarily happy and Camhs said she would remember these kindnesses and it would lead to a better relationship ‘when all this is over’. Sorry, you are probably so far beyond this, but I would forget about school work etc, your girl sounds in complete crisis and if she is going to school that is a positive, you can’t worry about her not opening a book at home when she is so far gone, if she is not harming then that is a positive. It’s really good you are getting help. DD’s dad and I are in crisis, I sometimes would like to split but how can we leave each other to deal with such a poorly girl?

he thinks I am the problem, We hear/take different things away from Camhs, and, yes, deep down I resent her, I love her so so much but I feel sad and disengaged from her a bit.

Take her phone away. Buy her puzzle books, go to library and get her some reading books etc. Tell her that you are sorry she is not well but phone is not helping. She needs to engage in life and make an effort to get better.

Give her a simple list of household chores to do, maybe some gardening if you have a garden.

You are enabling her, at this point.

That sounds so hard for you all. Had similar with my teen at about same age, self harming, school refusing, lack of engagement, all time spent on phone. When things were really bad we used to go for evening drives to get fresh air - she often used to talk to me a bit more when sat side to side. Also she could stay in PJ's and not have to worry about getting ready. We also used to make a 'nest' on the sofa with blankets and nice food and watch TV together which was about the only engagement I could get from her for a few years. Same with sending little texts and gifts to remind her we loved her, even though I often used to not like her very much at all as all of my energy went on worrying about her and frankly it felt such a thankless task. Plus my confidence in my parenting was at rock bottom. Medication didn't massively help mine either and she did stop taking it herself in the end as she said fluoxetine made her feel numb. Against all the advice out there I also got her a puppy which did have an impact as she had to walk it and love it and we also had a new neutral thing to talk about which wasn't fraught like her treatment, school, friends etc. It was a very bumpy few years but she came out of it later in her teens and leads a good life now and knows how to cope with her anxieties. So have some hope that this will pass and you will all get though it. You have my sympathy though it's so hard and draining.

So sorry to hear, that must be so tough
Definitely focus on your own self-care and respite. You need regular breaks.
Please don't follow advice of previous poster to take her phone away though. That would be horribly cruel for any teenager but particularly one with depression/social anxiety issues.

Thank you for replying Rainingzen. The Camsh thing is another saga as the doctors keep leaving- the last one looked utterly exhausted- and she then wrote me the wrong prescription. I then called Camsh to get it sorted and she’d left! So then a further 5 calls to get it sorted out 🙄 She is now seeing a temporary junior doctor who in fact is the best we’ve had in ages, and really engaged. We are looking at switching her meds (total opposite info from previous doc- who to listen to? 🤷🏼‍♀️) so maybe that will help…

Oops wrote Rainingzen on my reply but it was meant for you RichardGere!

MadamMaltesers We have had her bloods checked and all normal apart from vitamin D low which takes a suppliment for. I have noticed she is even worse around her period but I think she is so sensitive to everything that this isn't really surprising.

Have you considered if you don’t have one getting a dog? We got one when my DD was 11, she walks him every day and we probably all tell him how we are feeling when we need to off load. The routine of him needing walks has helped me massively through lockdown

I would take her phone away. It’s so easy to zone out for an entire day just scrolling and it makes you feel awful but it’s addictive. As suggested get her books, puzzles, baking equipment…….. anything to get her moving/pique her interest.
Our bodies are designed to move and when you sit still all day, it’s even worse for your mental health as no natural endorphins are released.
I understand depression is an illness and she won’t be cured by moving, but looking at her phone all day will make her so very much worse.

Has she ever been screened for asd/adhd etc.? It's very typical for this not to be noticed in girls especially.

It seems as though she's exhausted, burned out. These are again often signs that a child has been masking their feelings for too long.

It might be worth asking for an assessment?

Does she have an EHCP for school?

I really sympathise with you, it's truly exhausting. Generic therapy and depression meds will never get to the bottom of why she is the way she is though and unfortunately the system is so broken that they offer these solutions then make you feel like it's your fault when they don't work or your daughters fault for "not engaging"

Sorry to hear there has been a CAMHS saga. We all know that’s not good enough. It’s very encouraging that you have an engaged doctor now though. It could make all the difference. If maximum dose of fluoxetine is not having an effect then it seems logical to try something else. This is why there are many different antidepressants/ classes of antidepressant (SSRI, SNRI, Trycyclic etc). Medication is never likely to provide a complete answer of course but when things are serious it could form a very important part of the response to enable some other interventions like therapy to actually take place.

When you say that your DD has shown some issues since she was very small, I’m just wondering if anything underlying has been considered? I’m sure you’ve probably turned everything over in your mind a million times so you’ve probably thought about it all. I’m just wondering about something like high functioning autism or ADHD for example. Perhaps it has been considered. I don’t want to project my experience onto your situation, but speaking from my personal experience, I had terrible anxiety from very little and was in CAMHS by age 5. On the plus side I’m now a grown up with a degree, job, family etc. despite serious issues when I was younger. However, having had lots of diagnoses of depression and various forms of anxiety, I also now have a diagnosis of ADHD which was missed for about 25 years. It’s retrospectively so clear that I’ve got something neurodevelopmental going on, that it’s really unbelievable to me that numerous professionals could have failed to look into this possibility. So if you have doubts about something like this, I would really encourage you to advocate on it. For example, if school work or
social interaction are very difficult for your DD due to some issue such as this, then this could help explain why she has become anxious or depressed and won’t go to
school. Or for me, the impact of lockdown on my routine was absolutely horrendous for my ADHD. Really brutal. Perhaps she does have some diagnosis like this already in which case, I really hope the appropriate intervention is being followed up on that diagnosis too.

But this might not be the case at all. I think my main point is that you probably know your DD best so if you think there is something CAMHS aren’t seeing or doing right, don’t be shy to ask and suggest because her care is really a collaboration between you and CAMHS at the moment and your opinions are very important.

Another thing is do you have any idea what your DD is looking at online. I get that endless scrolling could be a source of issues, but there are also a lot of comforting mental health supports online. I think the internet is a double edged sword on this sort of thing but as you won’t easily get her off it, can you even…share some mental health TikToks with her even? Or can you take a look at what she is looking at to understand her inner world more?

But yeah, time off from all this stress and a place for you to talk about it are very important for your own health. This is extremely hard on you. I can assure you that you are doing great.

Also that there is plenty of time for your DD to catch up in life at her own pace.

Whatwouldbuffdo I so wish I could get her to do any clubs or hobbies. She has literally never joined a single club, even when she was little as she was so anxious. She is an incredible painter and in the past painted for hours on end. But she's too depressed to engage in it. I've bought her art equipment and tried to get her going again. I might see if she would do something online... thanks for making me think of it.

Mediumred thank you for your comments. I really like your suggestion from Camsh . I do send her texts from time to time which she never replies to, but I'll keep doing it! And it's nice to get little things from time to time - Good idea!
I'm sorry you're having a tough time with your DP. It can certainly drive a wedge. We got family therapy when she was 10 and we had our first crisis and it saved our marriage. That's why we knew we had to do it again this time round. It's fascinating that you two come out of each session with different responses. My husband took our son camping this weekend and I was alone with DD for 48 (hence my post) and I found it SO tough! Good luck too. X

Rainingzen can I ask you if you have any experience of severe mental health issues particularly in teens?

Cissyandbessy thank you! It's a relief to hear of someone who has been though it and come out the other end. My deepest fear is that she will be like this for ever. It is just so thankless indeed... as well as making you feel like you have lost your own mind!

Thanks Bluejelly. I do worry we are enabling her with her phone but she is nearly 16 now and not a toddler. This is the world we are in today with phones and technology... I have learnt to pick my battles very carefully as she can fall further into a pit of depression and I do not want to trigger her self harm. This is what makes parenting her so bloody hard. It's not a 'normal' situation...

Laburnum... I've thought about a dog but

1. we have 3 cats!
2. live in a flat with no garden (cats go out via windows)
3. she will leave home in 2 years and who will be left holding the lead?!

It's great that you are having therapy, because you need your own space to vent and talk things through.

Has she had any other assessments besides her mental health issues?

Have there been any traumatic/triggering events in her life besides anxiety? Including bullying, previous schools not dealing with her needs etc.

It all sounds exhausting,terrifying and utterly heartbreaking so I don't blame you for feeling like you do.

As hard as it is, try and focus on what she does do. She gets up every day,she gets ready, she attends school, she engages at a certain level. She's still trying and she's still going. She hasn't given up.

Try and engage with her interests (if she'll let you) even if it's all scrolling on the phone. What apps are they,what is she watching, can you watch together?

Ask her to join you for a movie or a drive . Easy and chill stuff with no expectation. Just to remind her you are there , you're not going anywhere and that whatever she's doing is good enough.

There seems to be a lot of focus on what she won't do,what she can't do, what she's expected to do and she doesn't. Expectations. I don't know if this is apparent in real life or just on here, but if it is , it won't help her ,at least at the moment.

What worries me the most is the possibility that something was missed in the underfunded ,overworked chaos that CAMHS is. It's obvious your daughter is very ill, but do they have the right cause/diagnosis for her and treatment/course of action for her?
Can you afford to go private?

AtRichardGere I really appreciate everything you have expressed in such an articulate way. We did get a thorough assessment done when she was 11 after having to fight really hard for it for over a year. The psychiatrist at the time said she could be in the anxiety olympic team (he was actually very kind and nice- it sounds flippant here !) and has OCD, which in fact the meds have sorted out almost completely. This assessment showed no indication of ADHD or ASD. I have read that you need to keep being reassessed however as you grow up. I don't think she has ADHD (although I actually think I might be slightly on the spectrum!) as I have never seen someone who can lock into one task for hours on end in the way she can... IF she's interested (it's the OCD) But ASD... I do sometimes wonder. Maybe I will raise it again with this new doctor. I completely agree she needs other therapy and have actually found a lovely psychologist who I am praying she will engage with. Yes you are so right she has the rest of her life to catch up... And she is the most incredibly talented artist, I mean off the charts (I know I'm her mum!) So I think if she can find a way to channel herself when she's older I think she'll be OK. It's just getting through this awful patch RN... yes good point to see west she's looking at. I have been meaning to try and find some teen friendly mental health podcasts or similar.
Your situation is quite fascinating to me. It's extraordinary your ADHD wasn't picked up! I hear this quite often, especially with girls.

Obvious name change. Yes you are right I try hard not to put expectations on her as she literally can't handle one more thing! It's just sometimes I feel SO frustrated by her, like the example I gave of her not even being able to write a card for her dad. I've tried so hard to engage in a very gentle and casual way but she really shuts me out. But I will keep at it!
We are doing a mix of private and Camsh. She had private psychotherapy which she has quit but I feel it's important to stay in the Camsh system and tbh It's just the lack of continuity of care which is problem... especially lately. Generally the doctors we've had have been excellent. I've answered already about the assessment in a previous reply. . I am wondering if her diagnosis is correct...

@Multitaskingmadly its a misconception that people with ADHD can't concentrate on something, they often hyperfocus on the things they are very interested in. Art is a common one, two of my DSs have ADHD one of them is hoping to go to art school next year.
I know how hard it is, I've gone through this several times with DS1, he's behaving exactly like your DD at the moment, he's been up and down since he was about 16, he's now 22. He has had a good year but his girlfriend broke up with him so he's in a big slump again and i am tense, anxious, sad and scared to leave him as he won't look after himself. He is doing his best to completely ignore us atm, it makes you feel as though you've done something wrong when you haven't.
Ironically going on ADHD meds helped him access things like finding a girlfriend, starting colkege and learning to drive, he felt he was finally going somewhere so he seems to be taking it badly that his plans are derailed again.

I could've written your post almost word for word OP!! My 15 yo is the same.
She does see her psychiatrist and psychologist though, which is good.
We're in the process of changing meds, which is a tough process.
She does still go to dance class, which is good socially and for exercise, but other than that and partial school days, she's in her bed in the dark on her phone.

I hear you- it is SO HARD. It is so hard especially when you are doing everything you can to help, but you're still not seeing improvements. :(