SSRI neurotoxicity?

[Umeboshi]

Recently my partner was prescribed fluoxetine and had a horrible experience on it. From the very first tablet, he felt 'stoned' and this only got worse as he took more. He was shocked, as his GP and friends who take SSRIs had led him to expect a subtle therapeutic effect, not a powerful mind-altering drug! I started to do some independent research, and quickly came across the Panorama series of investigations into GlaxoSmithKline's fraudulent marketing of paroxetine. Some of the experts speaking in those documentaries offered extremely thought-provoking information. Next, I discovered a talk with Dr Grace Jackson, who claims the consistent trend from multiple studies indicates that SSRIs lead to shrinkage of the hippocampus, damage to the brain's serotonin network, impaired blood flow to the brain leading to white matter hyperintensities. By this stage, I was alarmed! Has anyone else looked into these matters? It seems fairly certain, as I understand it, that SSRIs are addictive for many people and now it seems they are also implicated in neural damage! Then why in God's name are GPs continuing to prescribe them on such a huge scale? To my immense relief, my partner has now decided against trying other antidepressants, and we're going to look at alternative treatments. Am feeling very shaken up by all the information I've discovered from scientists who appear to be credible, ethical and fair-minded in their assessment of SSRIs. I'd be grateful for suggestions of effective natural remedies for depression. And interested to hear other perspectives on this.

My Co op is too bloody full of students! Maybe if l did show my arse l might get to a till!

What I've found so far is a forum for people coming off antidepressants and dealing with the damage they've caused:www.survivingantidepressants.org/.
Do you know why they do the tapering thing so slowly? I came off 225mg venlafaxine overnight when I was 19. It just made me flat and zombiefied so I'd had enough. I mean the withdrawal side effects were something, but worried now, could the drug, or quitting overnight have harmed me?

I doubt it.

As l said that forum is to share horrific stories about antidepressants. Most people come off fine. Most people take them fine too. I had a horrific time on Citalooram. I don’t put it all over public forums.

I wonder if there are a lot more people with bad experiences who just don't mention them. I wish I had known what they could be like when I was 18, I wish I'd never been on any of them.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

It’s scaremongering on that website, that’s why l sound callous. Akathesia is a known side effect. You switch drugs when that happens.

No one posts about how well they make them feel, people only post the horror stories. A classic thing on the internet.

You seem very new to this, using outdated studies and reading forums. I’ve been taking them for 30years. Not got Alzheimer’s or destroyed brain yet.

Not true. The website is a support resource for people who are trying to come off antidepressants and/or have developed devastating long-term side effects after they've stopped taking them. The word 'tardive' means a side effect that appears not while you're taking the drug, but later, when you've come off it. The website exists for patients whose doctors are poorly informed on the reality of antidepressant dependence and the extremely serious withdrawal symptoms many people experience for many months while coming off the pills.

If you'd like to know more, you can read the following by a psychiatrist specialising in SSRI antidepressants.

'There is no way to predict who is going to develop tardive akathisia. It does not result, as most people think, from tapering too fast. It happens even with very slow tapering. I do not think that anyone who has not already experienced akathisia can realistically be prepared for this possibility through informed consent; it is simply too uncomfortable to be fully imagined in advance.'

www.madinamerica.com/2020/08/ssri-withdrawal-elephant/

@MumUndone

It works for me. I'd probably be dead without it.

Same here

But...i'm curious to know what dosage your partner started on.

I was given the liquid to do 5mg and then went up to 10mg.

I think - not sure - that these dosages might not be available anymore.

I also had dreadful insomnia and restless legs the first few nights.

But I'd not have survived without it. No trouble coming off it.

Perhaps you need other drugs to get the courage stick your arse out of the coop window...

Re natural remedies

I was reluctant to admit my issues so tried 5HTP, which made me weep at the drop of a hat. Then St Johns Wort which gave me a headache and a rash.

Of course, some people have great experiences but don't buy massive packs and spend a lot in case it doesn't work.

@kowari

*What I've found so far is a forum for people coming off antidepressants and dealing with the damage they've caused:www.survivingantidepressants.org/.* Do you know why they do the tapering thing so slowly? I came off 225mg venlafaxine overnight when I was 19. It just made me flat and zombiefied so I'd had enough. I mean the withdrawal side effects were something, but worried now, could the drug, or quitting overnight have harmed me?

@kowari, if you came off the pills fast and there were no withdrawal effects, then everything's good. The only reason to taper them is to give your body a chance to readjust gradually to the absence of the pills. By now, your body must have got used to the absence of the drugs, so no need to worry. :) Some of the antidepressants are much harder to kick than others. Paroxetine seems to be among the very worst.

@Ostara212 It was 20mg. His GP said it's a low dose. Interesting to hear you started on just 5mg. And thanks for sharing your experiences with 5HTP and St John's wort. Am glad to hear your experience with using and coming off antidepressants was positive.

[quote Umeboshi]@Ostara212 It was 20mg. His GP said it's a low dose. Interesting to hear you started on just 5mg. And thanks for sharing your experiences with 5HTP and St John's wort. Am glad to hear your experience with using and coming off antidepressants was positive.[/quote]
Oof
I was on a mental health forum when I began taking it and most people started on 5mg.

I know the official guidance says start at 20mg but I thought they'd had enough yellow card reports to change that.

Is this recent? Is it GP paying no attention because covid?

Btw I was aware of the possibility of it being lifelong and the possible correlations to other things. I was very forgetful on it, certainly felt it at work - but the GP priority was that I opt to remain alive.

No offence but it does appear that you've seen all the horror stories, whereas the success stories just crack on with our lives and don't post on those sorts of boards.

Every drug you try will have potential issues, your body, your choice.

Hope he finds a solution and recovers as soon as can be expected.

PS if he does try again, BNF shows all those options still

bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/fluoxetine.html

Last prescription I had, they couldn't source 10mg, so
I had to split a 20 and dissolve the powder in water.

I am on Paroxetine, no problems at all. Just as some medications interact badly with people and others don't, it's the same with this one. There is another field of anti-depressants that isn't in the SSRI genre that he can try. I don't believe those sites you've linked as they have an agenda, and their agenda is anti-science and anti-psychiatry (much like Scientology). They are not credible scientists. Any more than the 'scientists' (as few as there are against them) who are against childhood vaccines. My Doctor is one of the most cautious Drs I know, and he wouldn't prescribe it if it were dangerous. I trust him, rather than anti-antidepressant sites. Or anti-vaxxer sites.

Please, please don't be scared by those quack sites that promote misinformation and scare campaigns. They are the ANTI-VAXXERS of the Psychiatric field.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

There’s always eminent doctors who are anti anti depressants and millions of contraversial studies.

Fact is depression is one of the worlds leading disability and the main cause of death in under 35’s and until soneone invents something else we are stuck with Fluoxetine. Which has transformed and saved the lives of millions, but that doesn’t count.

Well said.

The website is a support resource for people who are trying to come off antidepressants and/or have developed devastating long-term side effects after they've stopped taking them.

Wrong! That site is vehemently ANTI anti-depressant. It's entire AGENDA is anti medication. They are there to encourage you to get OFF your medication full stop and seek 'natural' (which does F all) 'methods'.

Just like anti-vaxxer groups encourage you not to have vaccinations and instead rely on natural methods and organic foods and herbs.

It is an ANTI medication site. It has an agenda. You are misinformed and simply can't see through the hoax that site is. It has done a number on you.

This happened to me, though I cannot prove it. Sertraline. I ended up attempting suicide. And with the help of social services my abuser took my son. SS took my abuser on his word that I had been very ill and unfit to parent for many years, despite him leaving us for another woman.

I cannot prove that what happened to me, but I had all the symptoms described by many others online and I never had the medical history to back up that I’m just a mentally unwell person. Oddly, 4 years later, despite the hell I've been put through, the trauma I’ve experienced on top of the domestic abuse I experienced, I’m still an unmedicated, functioning member of society.

My life was ruined by an SSRI.

Dh has been on a lowish dose of sertraline for 20 years and it has kept him on an even keel.
Previous to that he had several nervous breakdowns starting as a child caused by stress and anxiety.

No offence but it does appear that you've seen all the horror stories, whereas the success stories just crack on with our lives and don't post on those sorts of boards.
So true

@kowari, if you came off the pills fast and there were no withdrawal effects, then everything's good.
The withdrawal effects were quite bad. I'd had enough of feeling absolutely nothing while on them though, so even brain zaps were preferable.

Your doctor should have started him in a lower dose.

But you are sucking in the equivalent of anti vaxx beliefs and websites.

[quote kowari]**@kowari, if you came off the pills fast and there were no withdrawal effects, then everything's good.
The withdrawal effects were quite bad. I'd had enough of feeling absolutely nothing while on them though, so even brain zaps were preferable.[/quote]
Oh, that sounds horrible! Have you discussed this with a sympathetic GP or psychiatrist? Are you feeling more or less back to normal now?

I did take SSRIs myself for about six months, but that was decades ago, and I can't remember it in detail anymore. What I do remember is feeling a mildly psychedelic effect, no different to street drugs, and that surprised me at the time, because the GP had told me the pills would simply correct a chemical imbalance in my brain. I understand scientists no longer believe in the validity of that theory though.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Your doctor should have started him in a lower dose.

But you are sucking in the equivalent of anti vaxx beliefs and websites.

Are you trying to tell us Dr Joseph Glenmullen, who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, doesn't believe in science?

@NeonDreams

I am on Paroxetine, no problems at all. Just as some medications interact badly with people and others don't, it's the same with this one. There is another field of anti-depressants that isn't in the SSRI genre that he can try. I don't believe those sites you've linked as they have an agenda, and their agenda is anti-science and anti-psychiatry (much like Scientology). They are not credible scientists. Any more than the 'scientists' (as few as there are against them) who are against childhood vaccines. My Doctor is one of the most cautious Drs I know, and he wouldn't prescribe it if it were dangerous. I trust him, rather than anti-antidepressant sites. Or anti-vaxxer sites.

Please, please don't be scared by those quack sites that promote misinformation and scare campaigns. They are the ANTI-VAXXERS of the Psychiatric field.

Thanks for your advice, @NeonDreams. I am careful to research people, rather than just gullibly swallowing their messages. I too have been horrified at the anti-vaxxer propaganda sprouting up all over the internet. But have you actually watched the Panorama documentaries? They exposed extremely serious malpractice that the UK authorities were investigating with a view to criminal prosecution. Clearly the allegations against GlaxoSmithKline for fraudulent marketing and manipulation of scientific research were credible and deeply worrying. They were covering up the fact that teenagers on paroxetine started experiencing suicidal ideation while the teens on the placebo sugar pill didn't.

Are you trying to tell us Dr Joseph Glenmullen, who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, doesn't believe in science

BUT HE’S THE ONLY ONE……

What about the zillion of psychiatrists not saying this. Just because he works at Harvard doesn’t make him a God. Can you support his evidence with professors from Yale, or Oxford or Cambridge or the Royal College of Pyschiatrists? Or even from Harvard?

Get real!

He graduated in 1972 so l doubt he’s still teaching.

His book was published 16 years ago, so not really relevant anymore.

Medicine moves fast. You are quoting someone who graduated nearly 50 years ago.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I genuinely don't know what your problem is. Why are you being so arsey with me? I came here looking for support and advice. Yet instead you keep attacking me and telling lies. He is not the only one. There are a considerable number of highly experienced and knowledgable psychiatrists saying the same as he is. They have to deal with the patients who suffer extremely serious adverse long-term effects from antidepressants. You seem to have a deep-rooted problem with empathy. Kindly stop derailing this discussion.