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The Linden Method - retreat - my experience ( Don't read if you don't want to hear negative stuffxx)

78 replies

janieshuffle · 08/03/2020 16:42

Hi there. This may seem a bit random but I really wanted to find a place to share my own experience with the Linden Method as Its actually really difficult to find any real reviews of the Linden Method as its so heavily marketed and controlled!

I want to start off by saying - this is my experience and if you are at the point in your illness where you don't want to hear negative stories about a treatment you are considering - stop reading here! It will not serve your purpose right now.

The other thing I will say is that I do agree that the online downloads/dvds etc are ok value and probably worth trying if you want to try something different etc.

I knew I was the kind of person who would download all the info and not really stick to it so I actually took the leap of attending one of their retreats ( at great expense, borrowing money from family etc). I will start off by saying that this was over a year ago and I have only just felt able to even write about my feelings towards the experience. I signed up at a hugely vulnerable and, frankly horrific, time. I was severely anxious, suffering with depersonalisation, de realisation, trauma and grief. I was completely desperate to find something that would help me out of the dark hole I was in. The Linden Method promised me this.

I was in a terrible state when I arrived ( with my husband accompanying me) and just found the whole thing overwhelming. The staff that met us were very nice and seemingly kind ( however it did feel as though their kindness was limited and if you started asking too many questions, taking up too much of their time etc, their own patience wore thin and you were made to feel as though you were being a bit of a pain.
The venue was lovely and, of course, the other people were sooo lovely. Our teacher ( can't remember her name now) was lovely too, she knew her stuff and had an answer for everything. However, over the days it became quite obvious that they all had the same lines and ways of saying the same message over and over. The message is basically ' keep you anxious, highly creative mind occupied AT ALL TIMES' and they literally mean from the minute you wake til the minute you sleep, always occupied, never allow for the anxious thoughts to take space in your brain.

I totally understand the theory behind this and agree that inaction is the enemy of anxiety. For me, keeping distracted and busy is very important and has helped me carry on and keep my activities and relationships going etc. However, I also know that when I am highly anxious and suffering with severe intrusive thoughts/memories etc etc, nothing I do can make me forget those. No matter what I am doing they will be there. I kept trying to get this across to them and they kept saying 'well you are just not doing the right things..' so guess what, I felt very bad about myself and tried new things. The same thing happened. I personally don't think its possible to find things that can fill up your day from start to finish that are so incredibly interesting and intense that anxiety doesn't creep in. Plus I also have a child and friends and family etc, I am going to spend time with them and yet I will still feel overwhelmingly anxious and weird etc.

I honestly tried so many things when I left the retreat, I took up singing, martial arts, CHANGED MY JOB!, listened to a million podcasts ( too anxious to read) etc etc. Guess what, it didn't help me heal, I got more and more exhausted, I wasn't honouring my own emotions atall and I still felt horrific even 4/5 months later.
I would ring the support centre quite often and would always be told the same thing, it felt unsupportive and completely dismissive of real people’s feelings and experiences. As I now know, everyone's healing journey is different and what may have worked for the 'cult of Linden' will not always work for 'everyone else' and how arrogant of them to think it will.

One of the 10 pillars is to 'not talk about anxiety' to friends and family. While, again, I understand that talking about it all the time just reinforces the language of anxiety and helps perpetuate it. However for me, and I am imagine thousands of others, talking about it to my loved ones has been a lifeline. There have been times that I was feeling suicidal and I reached out. It also helps me be honest and real and not fake. I also think its a very dangerous message as its that very problem that often leads people to suicide as they feel so alone.
My final interaction with them was one day when I was at work - I was in the middle of a very intense piece of work that required alot of concentration ( perfect Linden Method activity!) and I felt so despairing and awful, thoughts of suicide and overwhelm were literally almost paralysing me and I felt the only thing to do was to call them. The lady I spoke was really quite horrible, she made me cry and basically said - if you are feeling suicidal you need to call Samaritans which I did end up doing.
Thankfully I am alive! But considering the fact that I was one of only 10 people that spent three days with them at the retreat, noone has ever followed up to see how we are and especially after a call like that - no follow up atall. Shocking.

I kept in touch with 3 lovely people from the retreat, not one of them has found it helpful ( apart from we have all taken up a ew activity that we now enjoy so that's good). Other than that, no difference apart from the fact that we spent over £3000 and felt really crap about ourselves for a long time for our perceived 'failure' to apply the method properly.

The way they market their success is obviously false and may actually be unlawful.
I will say Charles was charming ( as was his lovely wife) and he is very passionate about it but I think he has totally forgotten what it actually felt like to have severe mental illness and that he thinks that his regimented regime is right for all people. It is not.

Final thing is that - they won't tell you what the Linden Method is until you have paid in full to attend the retreat. You get the online stuff for free when you sign up but if you want to try that first and then sign up they wouldn't give you your money back for the online stuff??? Dodgy and unethical. Having had a lot of time to reflect, I try very hard not to be bitter but im very angry and how we were treated and especially the lack of care and support afterwards ( the ladies on the phone are mean! They may seem kind to begin with but as soon as you start to ask too many questions they get shirty and one even told me I had run out of time!! ( 15 mins per call). I was crying and saying I felt I couldn't cope/carry on etc etc.!
Ok, I am actually getting angrier as I write so I will stop.
Please do feel free to contact me if you are able to and want to ask me anything. Do NOT commit £3000 to this retreat until you really know what you are paying for.

Sending so much love as if you are reading this you probably feel desperate for help. I know how that feels, im doing ok now but that has come through many things ( elements of the Linden Method like trying to occupy mind) but also many other ones such as sharing and talking about my feelings, expressing emotions, exercise, medications, time, gratitude practises and much more. Good luck whatever journey you are on - you are a frikin amazing, strong and powerful warrior!!!!

OP posts:
TLS1234 · 07/02/2023 16:45

Thank you so much

EttasPlace · 24/02/2023 08:02

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this honest review. I am so glad that I followed my instinct to do more research before signing up to the online Linden Method or the retreat. I had a few red flags that niggled me, firstly the claim that this method could cure ME and Fibromyalgia ,the quite frankly archaic notion that these chronic, debilitating and very real illnesses are "mental health issues" ie "all in the mind" or health anxiety, was my first red flag, secondly that this person named the method after himself , thirdly the claim that it's NHS credited and yet I couldn't find any such thing anywhere, and lastly the vibe of a scam regarding costs once one shows interest.
This was the only google search honest customer review that popped up, so I'm extremely grateful to you all.
Good to know that even with chronic health and the anxiety that this causes my gut instincts are spot on!
Thanks again

Janieshuffle1 · 27/02/2023 17:03

Yeah! Well done for listening to your own wisdom. It can buried deeply under anxiety and illness so you did very well. I also have CFS and have found that the idea that it’s a mental health condition has only served to keep me stuck in a cycle of feeling like a failure and fighting my condition. I’ve very recently decided to drop the fight and love my delicate body and mind as much as possible!

Tryeveryday · 13/04/2023 23:00

Hi all.

first of all sorry so many of you are struggling and gone through this horrible experience. I’m so thankful I found this as I was just about to sign away money I haven’t got.

been struggling with depression and anxiety for 10 years now and willing to try anything so I can have a life again instead of just trying to survive. It makes me sad as I’m only young an I think I’m going to be stuck like this or worse for the rest of my life.

currently on the waiting list for CBT, has anyone had any success with this?

thank you, hope everyone is having a happy and manageable day

YouOKHun · 13/04/2023 23:35

@Tryeveryday so so pleased you saw this and didn’t sign up to TLM. I’m a CBT therapist so perhaps I can help. It is a shame the waiting lists for CBT are so long and it’s understandable that this delay encourages people to seek quicker options, but that can lead people into spending a lot of money fruitlessly or worse, having their mental health further damaged by unqualified and unsupervised people and quack cures.

CBT is not a magic bullet but it does have the best evidence as a treatment for anxiety and depression (that’s not to say there aren’t other very helpful approaches). CBT from a properly accredited BABCP CBT therapist will help you to examine how your thinking, behaviour, emotions might be maintaining your problems and will help you to challenge them and develop more helpful ways of coping. While you wait for help you could look at some of the books in the Overcoming series which are not too expensive and were available through libraries as ‘books on prescription’, I don’t know if that service exists still. The books are CBT based and might help you in the meantime. Paul Gilbert’s Overcoming Depression is particularly good IMHO. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Depression-Cognitive-Behavioural-Techniques/dp/1849010668

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Depression-Cognitive-Behavioural-Techniques/dp/1849010668?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-feeling-depressed-3842666-The-Linden-Method-retreat-my-experience-Dont-read-if-you-dont-want-to-hear-negative-stuffxx

TLS1234 · 14/04/2023 08:33

I’m was having CBT but no success for me. I’m now using tDCS which has helped a lot.

flexiblemirror · 20/07/2023 09:56

Thanks for your post. I have agoraphobia and some OCD and other anxiety issues. I discovered TLM last night and initially got excited. I started researching today and noticed things in his approach that disturbed me. He seems like a nice guy but I don't like how he dismisses all other methods of treating the disorders. What works for some may not work for others. I also could not validate his claims. So thanks, you saved me time and money.

YouOKHun · 20/07/2023 13:57

@flexiblemirror that’s all we want, to catch people before they put their trust in that man and his bogus therapy. I’m so glad you questioned it. CL is only a nice man before money is paid to him but the truth is he is a bully and a charlatan who is very happy to exploit people’s mental health for his own gain.

For the treatment of OCD it would be worth you looking up Professor Paul Salkovkis (a vocal critic of TLM). He is based at Oxford and is a CBT clinician. He (along with others at Oxford) has written a very helpful book called Break Free from OCD which you might find useful. Prof Salkovkis’s claims for the treatment of anxiety in all its forms are evidence-based so naturally CL has really attacked him in the past!

Janieshuffle1 · 21/07/2023 08:56

Thank you everyone for continuing to comment and share. I’m so glad my post is actually still helping a few people not get sucked in by his marketing and preying on the vulnerable! Sending big love and hugs today to anyone who is struggling xxx

YouOKHun · 24/07/2023 19:44

@SallyCin its good to know about your programme and CL is definitely one to examine. The FB page mentioned upthread has plenty of people who could give you background and direct experiences as can @Janieshuffle1 . I’m just a shocked onlooker ☹️

Janieshuffle1 · 24/07/2023 21:41

@SallyCin yes of course if it’s helpful. If you can share a way to speak directly then I’m very happy to share any information you need xx

flexiblemirror · 25/07/2023 16:28

I can't get the link to open.

YouOKHun · 26/07/2023 16:27

@SallyCin ”janieshuffle” has a “1” on the end of it so she may not be seeing your tags!

YouOKHun · 26/07/2023 16:28

Or messages!

BenHoward3 · 26/07/2023 22:05

Hey, I was sent here by a member of my group, I am the admin of The Linden Method Review group. The producers are welcome to put a post I
In my group asking for people's experiences and if they'll talk etc.

I have been bringing these con artists down for over two years now. We have been extremely successful but the mission isn't over until they are jailed for me, personally. The misery this husband and wife duo has caused people over the years is genuinely sickening and they need to be out of business. This genuinely shouldn't be allowed. One person who shall remain anonymous, her parents got into serious debt to take her on the retreat as they was at their wits end and thought they had found an instant cure. When it didn't work, she was too scared to tell them as she was under the impression she was the only one. She tried to take her own life, failed and then told her parents it has failed, who then went into a rage and said 'You are the only person it has ever failed on, it must be you'. Finding our group was an eye opener for her whole family who are all absolutely devastated.

This cannot go on. Please make a documentary on them, they have to be stopped and the sooner the better. They are dangerous, wicked and evil.

Ex staff have told me everyone seeing the truth in my group has cost them in excess of 200k, and that their business at present is staying a float due to having so many customers who buy the method year in year out as a coping mechanism. These people aren't better, and some have been paying for over a decade. It's truly horrendous and they need bringing down once and for all.

Thank you and sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make it clear why you need to help bring these people down. A documentary could do more than I ever could I suspect.

Madeline1951 · 23/11/2023 22:23

Thank you so much for your thoughts and great honest post on Linden Method

I was a bit suspicious from when I got the first email after my enquiry. Which seemed like a template with just my name on it. I googled the Linden method and it seems a lot about controlling the brain! and a lot of text book stuff.

No talking about your own issues. ? I am sorry, I do need to talk about things, I think when we do, it is an outlet. When friends talk to me with issues, I know they feel better.

It is hard to just keep busy, and as you imply, that causes stress.

Lets face it. Life is blinking hard..

Of course, we are going to be depressed, anxious, feel guilty, sensitive, hurt etc..

The world is going crazy and we are led by governments and press that lie to us!!

I think your post just confirmed to me that we just have to deal with this ourselves. Being Happy all the time, is virtually impossible.. We should look for contentment.

Be grateful for what we do have.. Not wish for the stars.

A wise man said to me once.
" Have something to do, something to love, and something to go for"...

( simple things like "Something to do " could be a little job, voluntary work, gardening, cooking , learning something, looking after kids. or anything. "Something to love", could be a partner, kids, a hobby, pets etc. "Something to go for"- could be learning a skill, a language, losing or gaining weight, a goal of sorts.

Your post has made me realised we can save £3000, and do it ourselves. Onwards and upwards, everyone. We can do it xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

BenHoward3 · 24/11/2023 07:25

Hello, everyone, I'm the dude who runs The Linden Method reviews page on FB. Exposing these people has had some very bizarre twists, but last week I received a phone call basically telling me to shut the group down if I wished to live. Basically a threat to life warning.

Now I don't tell you all this because I'm scared, the video is on my FB page for all to see as I recorded it. The reason for my post is I feel this will help those who are still unsure on whether to use their products make a last and final decision.

These people are scamming thugs and nothing more. Please keep your family, friends and yourself well away from them.

Madeline1951 · 24/11/2023 11:24

wow.. threats.. What nasty people ..😈 That's what the internet is for. to have opinions.. xx

Liccycat · 26/12/2023 15:05

I, too, fell for the £3,000 retreat to cure anxiety, which I have battled with for many years, after losing my daughter to suicide. The whole thing is a massive con and I know there are/have been attempts to take the owner, Charles, to court. I am so sorry that you, too, have been conned by a ruthless man determined to make money out of vulnerable people’s distress.

YouOKHun · 26/12/2023 15:27

@Liccycat I am so sorry about your daughter, how very hard for you and no wonder you have struggled since. It’s hearing things like your story of how you came to sign up for the TLM that make me full of rage. CL is a wholly unqualified, egotistical man who will happily take money from people at their most vulnerable, when they are trying to help themselves feel stronger. He knows he’s lying to people. What sort of person does that?

I hope 2024 is the year that topples CL and his therapy scam. He must be prevented from popping up again offering bogus cures that end up being dangerous, so when the punishment comes I hope it isn’t just about consumer protection but mainly about prosecuting him for his behaviour towards clients and the psychological damage the silenced have suffered.

Janieshuffle1 · 27/12/2023 12:39

I agree! I hope 2024 is the year! @Liccycat im so so sorry to hear about your daughter and no wonder you struggle with anxiety. You have had the worst trauma possible! I hope you are being kind and gentle with yourself as much as possible.

Unfortunately the idea of covering it for a TV expose didn’t get anywhere due to ‘legal issues’ not sure what that means. I am going to approach a few other investigative journalists to see if they might want to look in to it further. Xx

SunilChopra · 22/03/2024 16:10

Hi @janieshuffle thank you for sharing your experience. Did you manage to find a solution to the anxiety? What you wrote reflects my experience with the Linden Method too! I was in a desperate state so I reached out to Linden organisation again, without any response, and I found these reviews instead. It has saved me from more torment of going further down the rabbit hole.

I previously did the Linden method online so I saved myself the hefty expense of a retreat but after much frustration with the Pillars and the inability to apply it I have remained an anxious wreck up until very recently.

I found the book Dare by Barry McDonagh through a recommendation on this thread by @MamsellMarie (thank you!) I started it yesterday and it is already having a positive impact as I slept better last night for the first time in ages! I feel more free and energised today and that's just after 1 day of doing it!

I now realise that the failure to make the Linden Method Pillars work was not my fault as I had assumed. It is a fundamental and dangerous flaw with the Pillars themselves. The point about not talking or thinking about anxiety and then diverting through endless activities is just pure escapism that adds more layers of disorder on top of disorder. No wonder I was an exhausted, sleepless, anxious mess.

Dare, however, is diffusing that anxiety first by confronting the anxious thoughts/feelings, bringing acceptance to them and THEN engaging in diversionary activities, NOT before.

This is the real key to curing the disorder and I feel that there a light at the end of this dark tunnel now, and a life of hope and fulfillment in this very moment.

Thank you brave warriors!

BenHoward3 · 22/03/2024 19:49

SunilChopra · 22/03/2024 16:10

Hi @janieshuffle thank you for sharing your experience. Did you manage to find a solution to the anxiety? What you wrote reflects my experience with the Linden Method too! I was in a desperate state so I reached out to Linden organisation again, without any response, and I found these reviews instead. It has saved me from more torment of going further down the rabbit hole.

I previously did the Linden method online so I saved myself the hefty expense of a retreat but after much frustration with the Pillars and the inability to apply it I have remained an anxious wreck up until very recently.

I found the book Dare by Barry McDonagh through a recommendation on this thread by @MamsellMarie (thank you!) I started it yesterday and it is already having a positive impact as I slept better last night for the first time in ages! I feel more free and energised today and that's just after 1 day of doing it!

I now realise that the failure to make the Linden Method Pillars work was not my fault as I had assumed. It is a fundamental and dangerous flaw with the Pillars themselves. The point about not talking or thinking about anxiety and then diverting through endless activities is just pure escapism that adds more layers of disorder on top of disorder. No wonder I was an exhausted, sleepless, anxious mess.

Dare, however, is diffusing that anxiety first by confronting the anxious thoughts/feelings, bringing acceptance to them and THEN engaging in diversionary activities, NOT before.

This is the real key to curing the disorder and I feel that there a light at the end of this dark tunnel now, and a life of hope and fulfillment in this very moment.

Thank you brave warriors!

Please feel free to come to my group and leave your experiences with The Linden Method, if you wish. We run a group full of disgruntled members and the more reviews we have the merrier. Thank you

SunilChopra · 23/03/2024 17:08

@BenHoward3 is this your group? https://www.facebook.com/groups/564392801378925

It doesn't seem to be very active as I left as post on there a few days ago and it still isn't approved.

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