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The Linden Method - retreat - my experience ( Don't read if you don't want to hear negative stuffxx)

78 replies

janieshuffle · 08/03/2020 16:42

Hi there. This may seem a bit random but I really wanted to find a place to share my own experience with the Linden Method as Its actually really difficult to find any real reviews of the Linden Method as its so heavily marketed and controlled!

I want to start off by saying - this is my experience and if you are at the point in your illness where you don't want to hear negative stories about a treatment you are considering - stop reading here! It will not serve your purpose right now.

The other thing I will say is that I do agree that the online downloads/dvds etc are ok value and probably worth trying if you want to try something different etc.

I knew I was the kind of person who would download all the info and not really stick to it so I actually took the leap of attending one of their retreats ( at great expense, borrowing money from family etc). I will start off by saying that this was over a year ago and I have only just felt able to even write about my feelings towards the experience. I signed up at a hugely vulnerable and, frankly horrific, time. I was severely anxious, suffering with depersonalisation, de realisation, trauma and grief. I was completely desperate to find something that would help me out of the dark hole I was in. The Linden Method promised me this.

I was in a terrible state when I arrived ( with my husband accompanying me) and just found the whole thing overwhelming. The staff that met us were very nice and seemingly kind ( however it did feel as though their kindness was limited and if you started asking too many questions, taking up too much of their time etc, their own patience wore thin and you were made to feel as though you were being a bit of a pain.
The venue was lovely and, of course, the other people were sooo lovely. Our teacher ( can't remember her name now) was lovely too, she knew her stuff and had an answer for everything. However, over the days it became quite obvious that they all had the same lines and ways of saying the same message over and over. The message is basically ' keep you anxious, highly creative mind occupied AT ALL TIMES' and they literally mean from the minute you wake til the minute you sleep, always occupied, never allow for the anxious thoughts to take space in your brain.

I totally understand the theory behind this and agree that inaction is the enemy of anxiety. For me, keeping distracted and busy is very important and has helped me carry on and keep my activities and relationships going etc. However, I also know that when I am highly anxious and suffering with severe intrusive thoughts/memories etc etc, nothing I do can make me forget those. No matter what I am doing they will be there. I kept trying to get this across to them and they kept saying 'well you are just not doing the right things..' so guess what, I felt very bad about myself and tried new things. The same thing happened. I personally don't think its possible to find things that can fill up your day from start to finish that are so incredibly interesting and intense that anxiety doesn't creep in. Plus I also have a child and friends and family etc, I am going to spend time with them and yet I will still feel overwhelmingly anxious and weird etc.

I honestly tried so many things when I left the retreat, I took up singing, martial arts, CHANGED MY JOB!, listened to a million podcasts ( too anxious to read) etc etc. Guess what, it didn't help me heal, I got more and more exhausted, I wasn't honouring my own emotions atall and I still felt horrific even 4/5 months later.
I would ring the support centre quite often and would always be told the same thing, it felt unsupportive and completely dismissive of real people’s feelings and experiences. As I now know, everyone's healing journey is different and what may have worked for the 'cult of Linden' will not always work for 'everyone else' and how arrogant of them to think it will.

One of the 10 pillars is to 'not talk about anxiety' to friends and family. While, again, I understand that talking about it all the time just reinforces the language of anxiety and helps perpetuate it. However for me, and I am imagine thousands of others, talking about it to my loved ones has been a lifeline. There have been times that I was feeling suicidal and I reached out. It also helps me be honest and real and not fake. I also think its a very dangerous message as its that very problem that often leads people to suicide as they feel so alone.
My final interaction with them was one day when I was at work - I was in the middle of a very intense piece of work that required alot of concentration ( perfect Linden Method activity!) and I felt so despairing and awful, thoughts of suicide and overwhelm were literally almost paralysing me and I felt the only thing to do was to call them. The lady I spoke was really quite horrible, she made me cry and basically said - if you are feeling suicidal you need to call Samaritans which I did end up doing.
Thankfully I am alive! But considering the fact that I was one of only 10 people that spent three days with them at the retreat, noone has ever followed up to see how we are and especially after a call like that - no follow up atall. Shocking.

I kept in touch with 3 lovely people from the retreat, not one of them has found it helpful ( apart from we have all taken up a ew activity that we now enjoy so that's good). Other than that, no difference apart from the fact that we spent over £3000 and felt really crap about ourselves for a long time for our perceived 'failure' to apply the method properly.

The way they market their success is obviously false and may actually be unlawful.
I will say Charles was charming ( as was his lovely wife) and he is very passionate about it but I think he has totally forgotten what it actually felt like to have severe mental illness and that he thinks that his regimented regime is right for all people. It is not.

Final thing is that - they won't tell you what the Linden Method is until you have paid in full to attend the retreat. You get the online stuff for free when you sign up but if you want to try that first and then sign up they wouldn't give you your money back for the online stuff??? Dodgy and unethical. Having had a lot of time to reflect, I try very hard not to be bitter but im very angry and how we were treated and especially the lack of care and support afterwards ( the ladies on the phone are mean! They may seem kind to begin with but as soon as you start to ask too many questions they get shirty and one even told me I had run out of time!! ( 15 mins per call). I was crying and saying I felt I couldn't cope/carry on etc etc.!
Ok, I am actually getting angrier as I write so I will stop.
Please do feel free to contact me if you are able to and want to ask me anything. Do NOT commit £3000 to this retreat until you really know what you are paying for.

Sending so much love as if you are reading this you probably feel desperate for help. I know how that feels, im doing ok now but that has come through many things ( elements of the Linden Method like trying to occupy mind) but also many other ones such as sharing and talking about my feelings, expressing emotions, exercise, medications, time, gratitude practises and much more. Good luck whatever journey you are on - you are a frikin amazing, strong and powerful warrior!!!!

OP posts:
PeninsulaPanic · 09/03/2020 10:14

@janieshuffle I'm sorry I don't have time to leave a longer response just now but I wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading your post, although I'm sorry you had such a disappointing (and expensive Angry) experience. I can't personally criticise the Linden organisation because I've not been on their retreat, but I've had similar experience with another organisation and I know it goes on. They sell it as the one guaranteed method to solve your mental/emotional difficulties, but in practice they don't deliver on the promise that is heavily suggested in all the publicity. It's unethical, but they get away with taking significant sums of money from people and then dropping them unceremoniously when it becomes clear that their 'guaranteed method' hasn't worked.

I hope you'll find someone that can facilitate a much more effective process for you in coming to terms and dealing with your anxiety very soon Flowers

janieshuffle · 09/03/2020 13:11

Thank you. It’s nice to get a message of support and I’m sorry you have had a similar experience!! It shouldn’t be allowed.

OP posts:
TryTry123 · 09/03/2020 13:35

Sorry that you had a bad experience. Especially when you needed help acutely. The School of Life which is on Youtube recommends journaling to let out the anxiety, as it can prevent sleep.

Mindblocks100 · 11/05/2020 13:44

Omg you are both amazing 💜

And to post about it makes you super brave in my eyes 👀

Coda1 · 29/10/2021 05:26

I had a bad experience too. I could only find good reviews. I think they delete the others. It left me feeling alone until I found a Facebook page called the Linden Method Reviews. You can leave a review there and may help others. I left my review there in case anyone was feeling hopeless after the Method like I was feeling. The Method made my anxiety worse. Hope you are doing well.

MamsellMarie · 29/10/2021 05:37

I bought the Linden stuff. Didn't attend a retreat but paid for support and stuff online (I think it was)- it was probably 4 years ago but in the end didn't use it. I didn't seem to click with it.
I bought the book Dare by Barry McDonagh which was much more helpful.

HPFA · 30/10/2021 22:03

I bought the books as well. I found parts of it useful so it wasn't a total waste of money but I too don't think it's possible to keep your mind occupied all the time as they suggest.

Given that we all have individual minds I don't actually think it's possible to have one absolutely rigid programme that works for everyone. Probably the most important factor in maintaining a long term recovery is finding and sticking to the things that work for YOU.

BenHoward3 · 13/02/2022 23:59

www.facebook.com/groups/3662188497168310/?ref=share

I know this post is old, but I run a group exposing the Linden's and thought you'd be interested in seeing similar experiences to your own.

Please take a look, you'll be as shocked as we are.

pizzalover12345 · 12/04/2022 21:28

Hi can I ask how you feel now did you use the linden method at all after you went to the retreat, did you find anything else helped Better for you I’ve been in two minds about it but I’m so glad I’ve come Accross your post so glad you wrote about this thank you

ZKS009 · 14/05/2022 11:45

Hi Janie, I'm just popping in to let you know that I shared your review in a FB group that was set up to allow us to publish honest reviews about TLM. I found your review balanced, genuine and heart-felt and I'm sure other people will find it useful as well. I hope you continue feeling better and better every day. It sure is a journey and your last sentence was very touching.

mazzaeddy1 · 18/05/2022 22:39

I am so glad i came across your review. A friend saw this place and suggested it to me as i am in a really bad way but i had a feeling it seemed a bit to good to be true. Three nights in a retreat and you are cured after years of Cbt, drugs, hypnotherapy etc . I nearly borrowed the money to go but was to anxious about mixing etc, in a way it was a good thing this time that my anxiety stopped me. How they treated you would be the last thing i needed, i got angry for you. I do hope you are in a much better place now. x

YouOKHun · 21/05/2022 21:23

Anyone coming to this thread because they are wondering about doing the Linden Method/Anxiety Retreats - DON’T DO IT - RUN VERY FAST IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. It is a scam, and a dangerous one at that. @BenHoward3 ‘s FB page is a valuable resource. Pretty much all the reviews and testimonials published by the LM are written by staff or carefully edited. Negative reviews are removed and people who may already be suffering are intimidated. Avoid.

Michmorant · 26/08/2022 14:58

We paid all that money too for my son to attend the retreat and its basically the same story as you unfortunately. It was dangerous for him as you are told not to discuss your anxiety and thoughts. We ended up ringing the crisis team. And same as you not one person in his group was helped by this retreat. And yes the reviews seem to be very well policed.
Sending you my love and hope you're in a better place now 💗

SaintHelena · 26/08/2022 18:35

Thing is 10/ 20 years ago when he first developed this method keeping constantly occupied would have been hard - nowadays many of us are fully occupied all the time thanksvto SM, blogs (writing or reading them), gaming etc etc . Imv the answer would be to de occupy your time - long unpressured walks, day dreaming, meditation , music etc

YouOKHun · 26/08/2022 19:43

Linden’s suggestion to keep yourself busy to improve anxiety is hugely counterproductive and a massive exercise in avoidance. Avoidance is a big friend to anxiety and there is no better way to increase anxiety over time than to avoid and distract. Far better to face your thoughts, examine them, recognise their place in keeping anxiety going along with counterproductive safety behaviours etc and working on a way of changing them in a measured and measurable way - that’s CBT, the evidenced based therapy that Linden tells his victims doesn’t work. It’s honestly a scandal that he is allowed to continue.

one of the techniques cults use to keep their followers in line is to fill up their lives to distract them from the outside world and to keep telling already vulnerable people that the outside world is hostile. This builds dependence. Cults are lead by one figure with a God complex with close disciples. Fall foul of them and the hostility is frightening. For the life of me I can’t see much difference between a cult and the LM.

YouOKHun · 26/08/2022 19:51

@Michmorant thats dreadful, I’m very sorry to read your experience. I think the LM is properly dangerous. The other important point is that none of his staff are qualified. No counsellor is accredited by the BACP, no one using CBT on the quietis BABCP accredited, the psychologist is not HCPC and able or qualified to treat clients, Linden has no qualifications at all. Are any of them insured to practice I wonder?

mikeysmummy2004 · 27/08/2022 13:37

Just a quick note to say that the Facebook group for independent reviews of the Linden method mentioned above has been reported by Linden (not for the first time!) and has been removed, hopefully, only temporarily. In the meanwhile, there's a back-up group that you can access here: www.facebook.com/groups/564392801378925/permalink/769067690911434/ Charles Linden (aka Lyndon Griffiths) has been suppressing all negative experiences from genuine customers and we're fighting back!

mikeysmummy2004 · 27/08/2022 13:40

@Michmorant I hope you don't mind I've shared your comment in our Facebook group. People need to hear the truth! www.facebook.com/groups/564392801378925/permalink/769067690911434/

YouOKHun · 27/08/2022 17:07

FB gets on my nerves. A group highlighting the dangerous scam that is the LM gets taken down thanks to some strategic mass reporting by Lyndon and his cronies while FB continues to allow itself to be used to promote a scam that poses a very real danger to people’s mental health. Thanks for the link @mikeysmummy2004

mikeysmummy2004 · 27/08/2022 20:19

That's a good angle @YouOKHun I'll write to them to make that point! Perhaps they'll listen. Ironically, Linden reported the group for copyright infringement because his logo was used in the banner or something trivial like that.

Juap · 04/09/2022 15:42

Hi I was just about to sign up to the retreat would you mind discussing this with me more ? X

YouOKHun · 04/09/2022 16:02

@Juap your best bet is to follow the link in Mikey’s post. Just don’t involve yourself, it’s at best pretty ineffective but the gaslighting and intimidation that goes on if you mention it isn’t helping; that is really damaging to people. Find a properly trained, accredited and supervised clinician. Don’t trust a chancer and his unqualified staff with your MH.

BadGranny · 04/09/2022 16:21

Trustpilot doesn't rate it very highly: uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.thelindenmethod.direct

mikeysmummy2004 · 04/09/2022 21:48

@BadGranny thanks for the TrustPilot link. I think there are several separate review threads for TLM as they have so many different business names and websites. I've just left a review on this as well!

@Juap Check out the Facebook group where you can hear from people who paid for the retreat first hand. I only have experience with the online package. One of our group members has recently managed to get thousands of pounds back through their bank - Linden appealed - there was an investigation and he lost! Here's that link again to the current FB group: www.facebook.com/groups/564392801378925/

EmStar23 · 02/01/2023 21:33

Thank you for sharing this. I’m so sorry you had this experience. Sadly it’s quite consistent from the in-depth research I’ve done, but negative reviews get hidden. I keep trying to share my experience but it gets deleted. I haven’t been a client , my experience was different. My husband and I were unfortunately staying in a hotel where Mr Linden had hired for a residential course. Day one was strange where he and his wife quite obviously were dominate over the hotel staff and we felt we shouldn’t be there, that’s neither here or there. But on our last day Mr Linden came over to us and verbally abused us with the most vile threatening language and aggressive body language due to apparently us making noise in our room and disturbing one of his party. The abuse was awful. Apart from the fact I was there recovering from a serious illness so we most definitely hadn’t made the noise he was insinuating… for a man that claims to deal in mental health he behaved as a bully, watching him with his clients was strange too. It seemed the lady’s room we were next to wanted a refund so he , I suspect, was blaming us…. It was disgusting …. We then left the hotel and he left too, parking up next to us shouting again so much so his son was shouting stop dad. Then got out of the car and threatened my husband . He eventually calmed down but was a man out of control. To look at me too at that period it was clear I was unwell. Within his verbal abuse he enjoyed name dropping celebrities he knew. We complained to the hotel for the treatment highlighting too we and other guests were glared out throughout the stay but in particular this public abuse - they refunded in full stating they observed. I share this as 4 years later I’m still angry that this man and his wife did this too us. I feel I saw the real side . We are a quiet family and a quiet couple simply having a recovery break after months of treatment and despite actually telling him that he still pursued