how to help? please...

[pharlap]

Hi. I'm new to Mumsnet and just wanted some advice really. My sister is on anti-d's and so is her dh. He took a turn for the worse over the last week and I just wondered if anyone has been in the same situation? I don't live near them so I'm not sure how to help. I do phone but it's awkward as BIL doesn't want anyone to know and thinks that only my sister and his sister know about this even though my family know (hope that makes sense). So it's not always easy for my sister to talk openly on the phone. How do they get throught this? Do they need to come to terms with the fact that depression is going to be a constant in there lives or is it sort-outable (sorry I know that's not a word!)?

really sorry to hear this pharlap. Have suffered with depression myself but have never had to deal with anyone else's I'm afraid. Just be there if she wants to talk and maybe invite them (or just her) for a stay?
Sorry - not much use I know but I'm sure someone helpful will be along soon. Welcome to MN by the way!

hello and welcome to pharlap. you might find the depression alliance website useful - here's a link to their page on suggestions for friends and families of those who suffer depression:-

www.depressionalliance.org/docs/help/friends_and_family.html

For some people the first AD they try will work, and they will feel a lot better within a couple of months. Other people may need to try several ADs before they find ones that will work, or may not be able to tolerate ADs very well. So it is basically impossible to say how easy or difficult it will be for your sister and her husband to overcome their depression, and how likely it is to recur. I think it is best for you and them to keep an open, but optimistic mind as to what the future may hold.

Counselling and psychotherapy can also be helpful for depression; NHS psychotherapy waiting lists tend to be very very long for outpatients tho.

In terms of helping them; if you can visit or speak to your sister privately on the phone that may help her get things off her chest; if her and/or her husband aren't willing to discuss their problems with you, i would just make it clear that the "door is always open" so to speak, and keep in regular contact, so that they don't feel abandoned, and be very keen to emphasize anything positive they are achieving, even if that is just booking and attending the next GP appointment.

Generally if you do discuss your sister/her husband's feelings in any detail, I think that you need to emphasize that feelings of hopelessness/worthlessness are a symptom of the disease, not the reality, and that there is hope out there for them. Easier said than done, I know.

Other thing to bear in mind is:- is it actually Clinical Depression that your sister and/or DH suffer from - I have assumed it is, just that ADs are used to treat other things, such as eating and anxiety disorders.

Take care
x

Thanks both of you. MTS - I'm not sure what my BIL has - is clinical depression when you have it some of the time but not all of the time? He managed several months without AD's but then went downhill again. My sister has post natal depression although I think it might have been under the surface before her ds was born. BIL went to see a counsellor this week which seemed to trigger something off and he went rapidly downhill, couldn't get out of bed afterwards. I've never known anything as bad in any of my relatives or friends so feel very scared at the moment. He was so bad he rang my sister and told her he needed to go away for a few days but his sister went and got him from the car park and took him home and they managed to persuade him to stay at home and get more help. Since then I think psychiatric nurses have been to visit and his gp.

sorry cover blown was using other nickname in case any one recognises me but hopefully they wont. Sorry for the deption, I'm not new to mumsnet but very scared about this.

Vict17/pharlap.. Are there any kids involved?

I think YOU can only do what you are already trying to ie be there, and help a much as you personally can.
(MTS obviously has good, sensible advice)

Without knowing everything it is very difficult for anyone to make assumptions about another persons state of mental health.

Obviously you are worried, and concerned,and I think you need to be there for your sister at the moment.

ps- Depression can be treated - it just takes time, and the right combination of therapy and or drugs.

Wishing you all the best.

Thanks unicorn. Yes there is one ds, 6 and 1/2 months, hence the post natal depression. Can Ads be a cure for depression then? How long can it take? Will it be a lifetime thing but sometimes it will be more manageable than others?

sorry - didn't read about the kids properly.
Was the birth difficult/ traumatic?

All I would say,(again without knowing enough) is that having kids can set off a whole chain of events in a person/relationship.

The sooner this is acknowledged and treated- the better.
And don't for a minute think your BIL is the only one experiencing this sort of thing...it happens a lot.

Sorry, I guess "Can Ads be a cure for depression then?" is a pretty dumb question since the term anti-depressants suggests they are a cure? I just wondered if both my BIL and my sister are most likely to have to take them for the rest of their lives?

Good question unicorn. My sister had a ventouse delivery, followed by a horrendous infection which led to her being re-stitched, she had to stay in hospital for 2 weeks after her ds was born because it took the midwives that long to realise that there was something seriously wrong, she could barely walk and was in severe pain but had to get her ds out of the hospital's high perspex cot to feed him and change him all through the night after her dh had been sent home. My dad eventually made them get a consultant in who restitched her. The main cause of my bil's depression seems to be a feeling of worthlessness - he feels he isn't a good father/husband etc even though he's brilliant at both. He has a tradesman job and feels that his life is unworthy because he doesn't read weighty books for example.

Hi vict17. AD's are not a cure for depression, unfortunately. But they do help manage it, and can get someone over a really bad spell. I think if someone is prone to depression, there is always the tendency that it will reappear. However, there are very very good therapies these days which are extremely effective at keeping the depression under control and at bay. I think the therapies are something that have to be constantly worked at, but it becomes easier with time (and practice) to use the tactics necessary to manage the depression.

I think you have been given very good advice by everyone. If BIL doesnt want you to know about his problem (a common sympton of depression incidentally) then all you can do is be there for your sister when she needs you. She will be really glad of the support.

not a dumb question at all...
Personally,I don't think AD'S can Cure..(obviously they can for some)but if the
depression is more than a chemical imbalance (and tbqh it usually is)then drugs can only do so much.

I think it is important to TALK!
Get things sorted out with someone who is trained to listen etc.

Thanks MIAM - what kind of therapies are out there? The conventaional kind? I thought too that depression would be a constant in his life and felt very sad when my sister once said to me 'he's not the man I married'. Because none of us are meant to know, he puts on a brilliant happy-go-lucky front that's very hard to see through and obviously it's made harder for both of them that neither of them are 'right' There isn't a strong member in the marriage so they can't lean on each other. At the moment my sister leans heavily on my parents and BIL has his sister but sooner or later they need to learn to manage on thier own but I don't know how they can IYSWIM

sounds very like BIL has a bit of post traumatic stress syndrome, which I am afraid is only just being recognised in Women post birth- men haven't even had a look in on that yet.

Sounds like BIL feelings have been stirred up since the birth,- a lot of inadequacies come out once kids are produced.

Has he got any good friends (not just beer monsters etc?

Thanks unicorn. The thing that worries me is that he did talk to a 'professional someone' last week and that triggered off this 'I'm not coming home I need to sort my head out' reaction. Obviously it was his 1st session but I wonder why it triggered such a reaction?

The latest treatment seems to be cognitive behaviour therapy. Basically, it involves changing the way you view yourself, not comparing yourself to others and changing your thought patterns from negative ones to positive ones. Im just learning about this at the moment, but it seems to be very effective.

The book I am reading is called 'Good Mood - The New Technology of Overcoming Depression' by Julian L Simon. If you could get a copy it would really help you to understand depression, and how a depressive thinks and feels. That would help you to help your BIL & SIL. And obviously, if they can read it too, it will give them both hope that their depression can be dealt with, and even possibly beaten.

can't say- but it doesn't sound very healthy.

Was this a recommended (ie legit) therapist etc?

Is there any more to this at all (ie no question of him seeing anyone else etc?)

He started to go downhill when my sister got pregnant this time last year I guess it was. She has always been very up and down and had bad morning sickness on top of that. It took her a long time to tell me and I was the one who suggested he went to his gp. He has only told his sister ( who apparently brought him up), he won't tell any one else at the moment. He is the typical 'go down the pub with your mates and sink large quantities of beer' but he doesn't tell htem anything. He's so lovely, I'm scared he might do something drastic as my sister once said he's had suicidal thoughts, but surely now that the right professionals are on to him he'll be okay?

MIAM - I'll order that book from the library, I think it might be helpful

would love to say professionals will sort it..but at the end of the day they can only do so much.

Mental health issues are just so complex, you can't expect one answer/therapy/drug etc to cure all.

How is your sister coping with this?

I think as I said (in a sort of way) earlier, you can really only help whoever is willing to accept it.

His sister probably needs to step in and help him a bit more perhaps?

Great, Im sure it will help. Let me know when you get it, and we can talk about it. There seems to be a lot more to your BIL's depression, possibly some issues from his past? If it is to do with his childhood, that could be why it was your sister's pregnancy that sparked it. Ofcourse, I have no idea - just a thought. If it is something along those lines, there is still every chance he can get over this. Years ago, doctors believed that if you had traumatic incidents in childhood, talking may help, but there was little you could do to recover. This new therapy says that whether or not the depression was caused by something in a persons past is largely irrelevant, because it is how the person deals with it right now that needs looking at and can be dealt with. So, there is definately light at the end of the tunnel for them both.

Thanks that is really encouraging.
Unicorn - I left a message on my sisters ansaphone but obviously it's hard for her to call me. It's so desperatley sad. Their ds is so wonderful, he looks just like his father, and they are obviously not enjoying this 1st year with him. My mum worries (as do they) that in 20 years time they'll look back and think about what they missed out on.

In 20 years time they will be more concerned about a)what he is up to...! and b)can they afford to keep him through uni etc!!
imho..
There is really no point projecting ahead - cliche here, but very true- tomorrow may not happen (* me and my little family very nearly died on the M6 this summer- makes you a bit more well, today focussed)

Today is most important - and they need to sort themselves out now.

You're so right, that's what I want to scream at my sis down the phone! That she's missing the best year of her life NOW! Problem is that one of BIL's worries is how they will put him through uni now, how he will help him with his home work when he feels he knows diddly-squat. It seems to be that feeling of inadequacy that there is no talking him out of.

I will pre-empt what I say, as nobody really knows ANYTHING about anyone else's life!

Nevertheless... BIL sounds overwhelmed by the prospect of bringing up his ds (was ds planned etc?)

Essentially - those feelings boil down to his own sense of self... and HIS feeling of self worth.(or lack of)

I reckon he needs counselling (but not the sort
that sends him running away from his problems)

One counsellor doesn't necessarily 'fit' all..
so perhaps he needs to try for another?

Vict17, I think a little ray of hope is that he has actually been to see someone. It takes a long, long time for a depressive to actually come to terms with the fact that they do have a problem, and then some time after that before they seek help. So he has already made the first steps towards recovery. But, as unicorn said, the therapist he saw wasnt the right one for him. It can be difficult finding a suitable one, and in the meantime he may find it more beneficial to try the self-help approach whilst looking for another counsellor. But, try and be positive when you are talking to your sister. I know it is hard, but he is taking the right steps.