Therapist thinks I'm a (covert) narcissist - what should I do?

[BirthdayCakes]

I'm really upset! I don't think I am a narcissist but it's really hard to refute.. it seems like anything I say can sound narcissistic and now I feel a bit paranoid..

The key is that i DO feel empathy - but not sure how to prove it! If I say I feel like I am very sensitive to other people's feelings then that's apparently another narc trait.. if i don't act on my empathetic feelings then that's cold and narcissistic, if i do act then i'm only doing it for myself or to manipulate the other person into liking me - because that's what i want.. it just goes on and on like that..

Also, from reading stuff online, it's pretty much incurable and I shouldn't be allowed near other human beings.. most articles are about 'how to spot one' and if I google treatment or recovery it's mostly about people getting treatment or recovering from being around a narcissist.

what should i do? I'm really feeling upset (all about me!)

I'm not surprised you're feeling upset. I'd be furious with such a careless therapist. How dare s/he plant such an anxiety-inducing and horrifically confusing suspicion in your mind without at least going to professional lengths to help contain your understandable dismay? At the very least I'd expect a clear, well thought-out and detailed explanation from him/her (accurately personalised and specific) before positing such a "diagnosis". You've been let down in no uncertain terms.

Be very aware that most of this pop-psychology stuff about narcissism on the Internet is a click-bait phenomenon designed to be helpful to people who prefer to project their own shortcomings onto others. Genuinely narcissistic people are rarer than we're led to believe. Most of us are just human beings trying to get our own needs met - and meet the needs of others - in the best way we know how, and making mistakes along the way. A professional psychiatrist would think very carefully about making a diagnosis of pathology like narcissism, and most psychotherapists and counsellors are not qualified to make that call. And a good psychiatrist would base that diagnosis on far more clinical considerations than most of the bullshit you get about it on the Internet.

Please don't frighten yourself any further and make it clear that you expect a full and reasoned and evidence-backed explanation from your therapist. At the very least request a look at the qualification that gives her/him the medical authority to assert that about you. If both of those conditions can't be met to your satisfaction (and I'd advise you to seek a second opinion regardless) terminate your therapy. Seriously, you've been abused!

Thanks so much for your reply - I feel like I'm going mad!

There is nothing remotely positive/sympathetic online about NPD - I've searched and searched and really upset myself..

I am thinking about terminating my therapy (he's a therapist not a psychiatrist) but then that plays into the 'narcissists won't be told they're narcissists, won't engage in therapy' thing.. WRT a second opinion, I thought that any other counsellor would be quite wary of someone showing up saying their last therapist said they were a narcissist and they wanted a second opinion! I know I would!

It's really a bind - he said there was a 'lot of negative stuff in the media' - really it would be easier to be labelled a psychopath - at least they've had some positive attention lately..

My next appointment is Wednesday but I'm wondering if I can wait that long.. I really am very upset.. I can't stop crying and am worried about my children if there really is something so wrong with me..

Also - if you're still reading - is your username a reference to Sharon Blackie's book? I saw her speak a few weeks ago - really interesting!

Is he qualified to diagnose a personality disorder? It doesn't sound like it.

I would terminate the therapy, go to my GP and ask for a psychiatric referral as you have been given a serious diagnosis by someone who may not have been in a position to make one. I'm sure others will have better advice, that's just what I would do.

And try to resist reading the avalanche of horseshit about personality disorders online, so much of it is inaccurate, pejorative and will achieve nothing other than to upset you.

I would report him to his professional association and move on.

I would think the fact that you are worried about this and looking for help pretty much precludes you from being a narc.

So agree with greensleeves. Go and talk to your GP. This therapist sounds like a loose cannon.

I agree with everyone else. This doesn't feel like a safe therapeutic relationship (what is their profession?)

OP, I know so many deeply unhappy, not-very-bright, not-very-nice, people who have studied counselling, got qualified, and are currently practicing. It is frightening the amount of damage they can do.

I am not down on counselling btw. I am in a related field which is why I know so many people who have gone into it. Good therapy us an amazing thing.

I don't know you and i don't know your counsellor. It's possible he's amazing and you're a narcissist. But it's also possible and probably far more likely that he's abusive at worst, careless at best, and has read someting or done a module on narcisism and thinks he's very clever for recognising them everywhere, including where they are not. As pp says, he went a cruel, careless way about positing this to you, and that in itself calls his judgment and ability into question.

I don't know how common narcissists are. But I know incompetent therapists are ten a penny.

Why are you seeing a therapist in the first place? Is he helping you to address whatever it is that's bothered you enough to seek help for? Would you need a different approach to your issues if you were a narcissist? If he's not helping you then find someone else who can. Especially if he's just throwing the personality disorder of the day at you to cover for not helping you.

If he genuinely thinks that you might be a narcissist then you would probably need more specialist help than he can offer anyway and he should be suggesting that you seek someone else. If he's just thrown an armchair diagnosis at you and decided that he can sort you out himself then, whether he's right or wrong in the diagnosis, he dangerously overestimating his own competency.

Is he part of a membership body? BACP? UKCP?
What are his qualifications?

Narcissism isn’t always a personality disorder. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is but lots of people act narcissistically and don’t have NPD.

There is a LOT of misinformation about narcissism out there. Covert narcissism is less understood.

If you are fixated on the idea that you are the victim of your life and that your life is worse than other peoples lives, that could be construed as covert narcissism.

Acting narcissistically doesn’t mean you are a narcissist.

Knee jerk termination of therapy isn’t always the best thing even though it’s often suggested on MN. Ask him what he meant, why he said it, how he thought it would be helpful.

I've just texted to ask for a session before next week.. It's all been fine up til now and I actually felt lucky I'd found him - although there did seem to be a bit of a block recently and he said i was a puzzle - but surely most people in therapy are?!

I'll see if he can justify it and try to be alert to any slipperiness ..

It just hurts so much because I'm basically just very very sad and I'm not sure why - but to be so sad AND then realise you're also a really horrible person - it's just not fair! (probably a narcissist thing to think)

Being a covert narcissist does not mean you are a horrible person. It means you struggle with getting your needs met in a healthy way. I was raised by a covert narcissist to be a covert narcissist. Nobody said the words but I’ve read enough to know it’s true. Accepting it has meant I’ve been able to grow and change and no longer act in ways that are harmful to myself and others.

And yes, lots of people are puzzles. That’s not a bad thing either!

Having narcissistic traits doesn't necessarily make you a horrible person.

Can you think back to exactly what was said? It's easy to pick up certain specific messages from therapy and lose sight of the bigger conversation.

I just (periodically) feel a lack of meaning in life and I'm not really sure how to overcome that - it's all quite existential and feels a bit ridiculous and teenage..

I am very introspective so I guess that's the same as self obssession? But it's been mostly driven by trying to work out what's wrong with me.. I don't hate other people, I do feel empathy, I do actually love people in general, my dream is to find a way to help people BUT i do find it hard to make friends, I do hate social situations, I do take my husband for granted, I do get angry when he takes me for granted etc.. etc not sure what the normal version of these things is..

Is he registered with a professional body?

You sound pretty similar to me Birthdaycakes. I'm awaiting an assessment for autism as I think I may very likely be on the spectrum. I have the same issues with making friends and am extremely self critical so spend a great deal of time thinking about myself.

Why are you seeing a therapist in the first place?

^ this

This actually makes me feel rather uncomfortable and almost seems like negging. I’m wondering if he’s knocking you down so he can then make you work for his approval.

I'd be extremely wary of this 'therapist'. What professional body is he registered with? How long have you been going? Has he said or done anything that seemed like stepping over a line?
It seems odd to diagnose someone with such a big thing so flippantly, during a session. I've been in therapy and that doesn't sit right with me. Your instincts are kicking in here and with good reason! It's FAR more likely that he's a somewhat shitty therapist than you have NPD. So please don't panic. What Positively said above about negging also resonates with me, I do wonder if he's trying to 'crack' you (if he thinks you are a puzzle) by trying to break you down or even just rile you, and he's chosen really crap, unethical way of doing that.

This does not sound professional at all! I find it hard to believe any therapist would even use the word narcissist. What are his qualifications? Where did he study? How long has he been a therapist for?

Okay - just had another session and I'm not a narcissist.. I had an injury (probably) during the narcissistic phase (not sure of terminology) that has resulted in my aloneness/distrust of other people/inferiority and superiority complexes..

Which is fine although I know that narcissism is born of injury during the narcissistic phase! Anyway - he apologised profusely and promised I didn't have NPD and he wouldn't use the word again..

I suspect he DOES think I have tendencies and I suppose I do - a lot of people must.. But we're going to focus on those wounds for a bit so will see how it goes..

I’m glad you were able to work through this, @BirthdayCakes. Well done for sticking with it and asking questions. There’s much we can learn when we are brave enough to do that.
Good luck with the rest of your journey.

He's a 'therapist'. That means nothing I'm pretty sure anyone can call themselves a therapist.

Only a psychiatrist can diagnose personality disorders.

This guy is a quack OP.

No more 'therapists' or 'counsellors'. Find someone with medical qualifications.

Thanks MissMalice!

Lots of people have proper qualifications (BSc, MSc, even doctorates) have spent years training and are extremely effective at what they do @AfterSchoolWorry
You are correct in that terms such as therapist and counsellor are not protected and anyone can use them. That doesn’t mean they are all (or even mostly) “quacks”. It does mean it’s important to check qualifications and experience.

Actually the medical model has huge issues and can make some problems significantly worse. Normal responses to trauma are pathologised, people are labelled and no support is given.