work issue can someone help advise? bit long

[tiggersdontlikehoney]

I want to know whether I'm right or wrong, and what you would do in this situation, to look after yourself as well as do the right thing.

I began a new job a couple of years ago. Then a few months ago became severely depressed and had come to a realisation I needed help, felt there was something wrong with me. I kept going to work, but wasn't much use there - just kept trying not to cry a lot of the time. After a while I went to my GP, and told my employer, and disclosed that I was going through a diagnosis for a number of MH illnesses including borderline, bipolar, aspergers and waiting for therapy for depression, anxiety. The MH unit were/are really slow to do anything so I'm still waiting and no further on despite several appointments.

I have good days and bad days. I've gone to work every day, not taken any time off, I take pride in my work and didn't want to shirk. Have gone in even on some days when I feel I really can't cope.

Today I was told by my boss that due to the behaviours they've noticed, and that other people have now noticed, they are sending me to HR for coaching sessions, and if that doesn't happen I will likely be put through formal disciplinary procedures.

I don't know what to do - help?

Coaching isn't going to fix behaviours that are the result of my depression/things I'm being diagnosed for, some of which can be negative, I know that - I can be very withdrawn/uncommunicative, for example, or put something in an email that I regret later (i.e. sounding irritable). My colleagues don't always know why I am the way I am and I know they can sometimes think I'm being rude, I know they have complained to my boss when I've been irritable or had a knee-jerk reaction. My boss knows what is going on but I haven't disclosed stuff to everyone as it's a big workplace.

I'm not trying to make excuses for bad behaviour. But sometimes I'm having a bad day with my MH, it's not deliberate.

I can't figure it out, is this an employer being supportive, or one trying to use 'coaching' to fix something that isn't my fault and won't be fixed by a few sessions with HR?

They are saying that they expect to see me change through this 'coaching', or the result of disciplinary is there.

I'm having a massive reaction, what is probably an over-reaction to the meeting. I feel like staying at home now and never going back, I'm just sitting in floods of tears, I feel they have totally rejected me, and despite being very very open about everything going on with my MH, it hasn't helped. I just never want to see them again. I'm scared the coaching will be hugely patronising and that will in itself make me irritable and angry, so I'll come across as not cooperating with it. I'm scared I'll be put through a formal process and something will go on my record about bad behaviour, when it's not deliberate and I"m doing my best to deal with it, and do my work.

What do I do?

This sounds out of order on their part, and contrary to Disability regulations (re the depression, etc). Are you in a Union? Is so contact your rep asap.

No I'm not in a Union :(
Unfortunately, I can see how that might be useful.
There is one at my workplace, but is it too late now?

I am struggling to get my head around which bits are right/wrong, or whether I'm wrong/over-reacting, and just crying so can't think straight.

I'm having to resist posting loads and loads through anxiety here, but just reading back through some of the things that were said, that I wrote down. they include boss saying that 'lots of people across the world have issues, but not all of them fall out with everyone' - when I haven't fallen out with anyone! (but some people are reacting to seeing me depressed) - also that they 'can't let it continue'. That last one especially, sounds ominous, as if I can't change/fix what behaviours I have, how can I stop them continuing?

I think the depression is naturally making you think about the effect on yourself here - the company also have a duty of care to their other employees who seem to be affected now as well. I think that is the reason for the company to try and tackle some of the issues that are being raised. I don't think it is purely a method of disciplining you.

As you say is it a big workplace, does it have an Occupational Health Department or could your boss refer you to one? OH would probably ask for permission to contact your GP which would confirm some of the things you have already told your boss about.

Are there any changes to your work that you think your employer could make to make things a little easier for you in the meantime? If there is I think this would be worth raising especially if you do end up doing the 'coaching' with HR.

Finally - have you considered talking to your GP about this? If you are struggling at work to such an extent (that your colleagues have raised it) then the GP may consider signing you off work for a bit which would give you some space.

Hope you sort something out OP, I know it's easier said than done but try not to catastrophise in the meantime

I've already been to OH, they agreed with everything I discussed with them and wrote a long letter to my boss a couple of months ago to support this. She doesn't agree with some of their decisions.

i requested and have some support - for example a quiet/private office space, ability to take walks and work from home if needed. My colleagues have seen this and don't like it, for example burst into my office space laughing, push doors in my face. My boss says this is understandable, as they think when I'm withdrawn I'm being rude. And that unless I choose to disclose my issues to them, there isn't much she can do.

Honestly, I have never ever wanted to be signed off sick from anywhere, but am seriously considering going to the GP tomorrow, as I don't feel I can go back at the moment. Would that be reasonable?

Do I seem really self absorbed?

Bursting in laughing and pushing doors in your face is not appropriate behaviour. Im not sure what the best way to tackle this is though. Have they been told to give you space? You should definitely chase the referal though, ask how long it is likely to be until you are seen. I really feel for you. Perhaps if you post in the employment secyion you will get some great posters who know their shit.

I have got one top tip for all work place problems: keep a factual diary of any incidents. Date time who was there what was said or done and how it made you feel. Any meeting or conversations you should take notes, and email them afterwards to say something like this is my understanding of what hapoened during the meeting. And call acas. It might be worth trying the union. I know they cant take you on when a disciplinary has started but im not sure if that just means the official process. You can also call acas.

And no you dont sound self obsessed x

I didn't say you were self absorbed at all, just that you were focusing on the wrong reason (in my opinion) why the company were trying to tackle this.

I would refer your manager and HR back to the OH notes then. It's quite hard to go against OH recommendations tbh.

Please get in a union as soon as possible. They will still help you if formal proceedings have not begun, and they probably will.

Go to the coaching with an open mind but armed with knowledge. You are undiagnosed but it is expected that your diagnosis of depression at least should cover you under the equalities act. Did OH confirm this?

Use the coaching to get across your vulnerabilities and what simple adjustments you need. Document it from your side. Don't sign anything you haven't read or are unhappy with. Don't agree to change behaviours that you can't yet without treatment.

Brace yourself. This could get ugly and your best friend will be your union rep. Good luck.

Thank you redexpat I don't what else to say there, my boss keeps saying that me not communicating (which is because I'm depressed, sometimes I'm literally just trying not to burst into sobbing tears) is justification for what that team do/did. I talked to HR about it, they also agree it's not ok, but still nothing has been done. I was moved out to another office, but the people in that team still see me as 'rude', make commets when I pass etc. Partly because I haven't disclosed but I didn't disclose because they are massive gossips. But they have gossiped anyway, telling people I am rude, so I don't know what to do.

The GP and MH are very vague about when I could be seen. They just repeat assessments, and when I get cross that they are asking the same questions again, they just shrug and say it's part of the process. And insist I should take anti-depressants. O I don't actually have a diagnosis other than the list of potential things and that they think I do have depression as part of it. What my boss doesn't agree with, is that occupational health said there would be no point in me going to the in-house service, which is only for very minor issues, and my boss thinks that means I am refusing some kind of help. I'm not, I just don't want to explain myself over and over to new services that aren't right anyway. Occupational health backed me up on that, as it's distressing for me to keep discussing stuff with new people.

Cotswold I think I understand. But my worry is - what happens when a few coaching sessions have happened but my behaviour hasn't changed (and with the best effort on my part, it hasn't so far).. will I then be told it's deliberate and be blamed/fired, what happens?

Meh No one at work has mentioned the equalities act yet..I'm not very good with stuff like that. I try to keep notes about what is said but that also increases my anxiety massively, it feels like I'm fighting some massive battle, but really mostly in my own head. It drives me a bit crazy to keep going over it all.

Thanks for the Union suggestion. There is nothing formal yet so perhaps wise to get in touch with them now in case this gets worse.

Though honestly, my reaction right now is to just resign, I don't want to have to fight anyone, don't think I'm up to it.

If I did go on any period of sick leave, would that show on a reference later?

Sorry if self absorbed again

I can't really help with the main problem OP but didn't want to read & run.

What I can tell you is that it's not too late to join a union, I signed up the day I received a redundancy consultation notice (long story) & they represented me from that day. I was in a administration role & chose Unite. Can't recommend them highly enough.

Good luck

If the GP and MH doctors have suggested anti depressants, why have you not accepted that help? They might give you the strength to approach the coaching sessions with a more positive outlook, and some good may come of them.

I really feel for you I do. May I check that you are taking the antidepressants that they have prescribed for you? I know that you may not wish to take them but they will help you until formal diagnosis of your MH is completed.

I realise that you get frustrated when they keep asking you the same questions but that is part of a the diagnosis system - they will judge how you are doing by the answers you are giving.

Join the Union and go to HR. Explain the situation to them and keep careful notes of what is actually said. Sometimes when we are ill we mistake what we hear as to what was actually said and meant (this is not a criticism but something we all do).

Your work colleagues are not behaving properly but because you are feeling so vulnerable could it (possibly and I mean possibly) be that they behaviour appears much worse than it is, I am not excusing bad behaviour but when we are feeling ill we feel things so much more.

Go to the GP and get signed off, take your antidepressants and joint the Union and look after yourself. Thinking of you

I think the company have been very understanding so far from what you have described. They have a duty of care to you, and they seem to have made a lot of reasonable adjustments to fulfil this duty. They also have a duty of care to other employees and if your depression is affecting them, they deserve to be "looked after" to.

If the other employees see you are being singled out for special treatment (i.e. working from home, able to leave the building at will etc) despite being rude and uncommunicative then it's easy to see why resentment is building. That doesn't excuse bad behaviour.

It sounds to me that the company is on your side. Work with them on this. They won't get everything right, but neither will you. Managing mental health issues is difficult for all involved.

And yes, join the union. Everyone who has the opportunity to join a union should do.

I recently went through a very difficult time with work and although I wasnt depressed, I did suffer from related anxiety and panic attacks and I only too well recall that overwhelming crushing feeling like everything is about to fall down on you. I really feel for you.

You need a plan.

1. Chase referral and explain the new world situation to the doctor asking for support and guidance

2. Update occupational health

3. Go to the coaching. This is the really hard bit. I know it feels pointless but go knowing that you are ticking the box they want you to tick as it will go in your favour that you did it. I know you don't want to explain yourself so may I suggest that you type out a standard letter detailing what you are going through, your referral and the OH advice which explicitly states that they advise against this. Your manager may disagree but it will give the coach insight. You can then just hand it to them and you have a saved version for next time you need it as well as evidence of what you told the coach.

I would also start putting as much as you can in writing, if you feel capable, so that you have a paper trail.

Aside from that I'm not too sure what to advise. Disability is protected under the equality act but I'm not sure how it works if you aren't diagnosed. If you have depression then you are protected in that respect. I would suggest posting in employment as you may get some well structured advice. @flowery gives very good advice and may be able to point you in the right direction.

Thank you

Olly I have been told I can have the special treatment, but haven't used it as the reaction from colleagues is bad enough as it is, without being seen in that way. So I don't feel like I can really always take what is supposed to be on offer. All the colleagues see is me withdrawn/uncommunicative, which they have decided is me being rude (when I'm actually trying not to cry). I feel like i'm damned if I do, and if I don't. If I disclose/not, if I take the support measure or not. Like I can't win.

I think parts of the organisation are supportive, occupational health seemed to get it all. But my actual department just wants me to behave normally - I've been told I should be more chatty, and build relationships better. It's not that I d on't want to, it's that a lot of the time I'm just not able to (again, trying not to cry, or feeling very space out).

Yes I'm taking the ADs, but they make me feel very sick and not sure they do much for me. For those of you who take them, what sort of differences do you notice?

I'm worried that if I start to put things in writing, it will turn into some kind of litigious battle, which I really honestly don't think I can handle right now. But maybe a union rep can help with that sort of thing?

Does anyone know whether I have to disclose mental health issues to whoever is the coach, and discuss those in detail? - as they are not a therapist?

If I do, it might help but I just don't necessarily want to as some of the things behind what I'm experiencing are very personal.

I don't know if you have to. I would have thought work would direct you to do so if they felt you should do (not that they may be right of course). So if you don't want to and work don't tell you to then don't. My feeling is that in your shoes I would consider telling them. Do you know if the coach will be feeding back to them afterwards? That was my interpretation of your post. If they are then disclosing could be beneficial to them. If not then perhaps it makes no difference.

If your work say that they will take you down disciplinary after the coaching if there are no changes and you really feel that the coaching won't help, then addressing things in writing will only serve to help you. I'm not saying that you should start writing formal letters, just that maybe it's time to document some of the things you have said that they disagree with.

I requested and have some support - for example a quiet/private office space, ability to take walks and work from home if needed. My colleagues have seen this and don't like it, for example burst into my office space laughing, push doors in my face. My boss says this is understandable, as they think when I'm withdrawn I'm being rude

^ this I have to say is unreasonable. Your employer is ill-advised to give with one hand and take away with the other.

On the one hand they are taking their duty of care seriously, but really, standing by while your colleagues behave in a childish and spiteful way towards you is not something they should say is "understandable". They should be finding a balance between giving a clear message that you have MH problems for which there are certain steps they must take to alleviate the debilitating effects, while not drawing battle lines and making the colleagues feel they are taking sides.

In fairness, it is a very challenging time in organisations. Even the best equipped, may have managers who have neither the time or motivation to truly understand and support those with disabilities incl MH.

Do you feel the nature and volume of your work is adding to your stress and anxiety? If it all becomes overwhelming, could you consider asking your employers to re-position you in a different role, where you still have challenge but where the environment is different. Also you can maintain continuity of employment, but take your "foot off the gas" for a period of time to get life back on track.

It's incredibly difficult. I have MH issues (anxiety and a much disputed borderline personality disorder diagnosis). I'm also a manager. Last year, in my last job, I was managing a woman with well established GAD and it is very difficult to strike a balance between managing the rest of the team and (rightly) acknowledging protected health issues (mental health or otherwise).

Personally I would share with the coach, I understand why you might not want to but the ideal scenario is the coach turning around to your manager and saying 'this is a health problem, not a coaching issue' which may focus their minds.

Personally I would look at going officially part time. It's what we established with my reportee and it did work for her.

That said I would like to say your colleagues sound like bitches! Do you think you could look at moving or are things too hard right now?

Thank you everyone.

The GP really listened, and immediately offered to sign me off for a month, and more after that if I need it, and really pressed the point that it's better to get better and have one period of absence, rather than go back before I'm ready and then be off again (which counts as two absences).

I wish I had done this months ago.

Not sure what boss's reaction will be to this, no response yet. Bit scared they will see it as wrong and I'll be penalised further somehow for it.

daisy I actually really like my job, and it doesn't cause me any problems, so I would not necessarily want to be moved out of it. The 'colleagues' who do the things I describe sit near me but actually my work has nothing to do with theirs at all - which is why it is so weird they have reacted to me in the way they have. They have just seen someone who is withdrawn and made all kinds of assumptions from what I can gather, without any facts at all. And everyone else that I speak to thinks it's horrible - but my boss just keeps defending them, saying they have a right to have that reaction, so I don't know what to do there.

scribble thank you. I do work PT already, which has been the case since I started not due to MH.

Have joined the Union today and will talk to them on Monday.

Also spoke to one of my mentors outside the organisation, who encouraged me to do that and to keep a paper trail. I don't want to start a paper trail if it leads to some huge battle with my employer, I'd honestly rather walk away. But they also said I'm not in the right frame of mind to make those sorts of decisions, and should take the time out first.

Oh and I have another meeting with occupational health lined up.

Does anyone know - do OH work for the employer like HR do, or are they neutral in that sense?

OH is there to assess the employees ability to do their job, based on current circumstances the employee is faced with. They will have a medical background but can't overrule what the employee's GP has said. They are there as the link between management, HR and the employee.

Basically end of the day it's about getting the employee back and productive again.