Leaving psychiatric hospital when unwell

[EmeraldIsle100]

My DD early 20's has bipolar, depression, and bpd and is currently in hospital. She was in our local hospital but got moved to another hospital about 100 miles away because she needed to be on observation and our local hospital didn't have the resources to put her onto observation. She has subsequently been taken off observation.

She is awaiting a transfer back to the original hospital but there are no beds available there. She is really scared and incredibly lonely in the new hospital which is nothing like the original hospital and her mood is going downhill badly.

She is telling the doctors that she is improving so that hopefully they move her back to the old hospital but in reality her mood is low. She feels incredibly low and thinks she needs to change her medication. If she tells the hospital this they will most likely keep her in for at least 3 weeks to supervise the change of medication.

She cannot cope with the thought of 3 weeks at the new hospital. She is struggling to get through the day and I am really worried that she will take her own life which she has tried to do on several occasions by paracetemol overdose.

Given her terror of the new hospital I think that thing she would be better off wcoming home, seeing her key worker, GP, psychologist, friends and family than being miles away from home and lonely and isolated. She could maybe get a bed in the old hospital sooner rather than later. I hve taken time off work to care for her and she could also see the Crisis Team if necessary.

I would appreciate any advice, thank you very much. She is completely terrified in the new hospital.

I am struggling to understand her to be honest. For example I can't see why she doesn't accept that she cannot go out drinking and taking a few (as if) puffs of dope when this will affect her health. I dont understand why she flips out when I say this wouldnt be a good idea.

I get it that I am 30 years older than her but I would have thought it wasnt an unreasonable opinion.

When I said 'strong opinions' I used the wrong words. I admire an awful lot of her opinions. I actually meant she is strong willed and doesn't like to see other people's view aka mine.

I am scared of what is ahead and at this moment I don't see her getting well. Up until now I really believed she would. I was being unrealistic. She has a serious mental illness, it is not going to disappear.

Maybe she will develop strategies as she gets older but the next few years are going to be rocky.

I know I haven't a chance of making sure she doesn't kill herself. She wont go back to the new hospital so I will have to cope as best as I can

Erin I hope you got some sleep and your sleep pattern improves!

I think DD doesn't feel anyone understands her. When I ask her to help me understand she says she will never get better and sishes she wasn't here.

I am still in bed actively trying to avoid reality. At 1pm I am getting up to face reality. I am behind on everything, washing, food shop, finances etc. 1pm and all changes

I am out of bed with one wash on the line LOL. I am feeling more positive, thanks for sharing your experience, its helping me a lot!

Hi Emerald,

So sorry you are in this position, it is so hard. With regards to overturning her section as a nearest relative I think you probably would have to go to court yes. I've never been in that position, I'm normally in the opposite one of being expected to manage with my husband at home way past where I feel it is safe.

Looking after someone who is acutely unwell at home is really tough, and exhausting. I've learnt when my husband is ill to take every opportunity for sleep as I don't know when the next will be. My husband has multiple suicide attemptscin his past and I have come to realise that I do everything I can to support him and if he does oneday suceed it won't be my fault. I think that it must be especially tough when it is your child.

Have you been given contact numbers to call if things arn't working out with your daughter atn home and you need more support? In an emergency call 999 and the police will help you keep your daughter safe and get her help. I know it sounds extreme but I have had to do this more than once for my husband and they have always been very helpful.

www.reacttoolkit.co.uk

This link is to a study that is going on at the moment about supporting relatives of people with bipolar and psychosis that might be useful to you. You are randomly allocated to either get a resource pack or an online support website.

It is exhausting trying to watch over a suicidal child. I've been there. You could ring PALS at the hospital. I found them very helpful. Also if you feel she is likely to drink or take drugs I would ring the hospital. She is much more likely to relapse as a result of that. Have you got a care support worker, as your daughters carer and NR you are entitled to a carers assessment. Please look after yourself too.

That's very interesting, I will register, thanks for sending the information.

I am actually happy that DD is sectioned. It reassures me to hear you say that if a loved one takes their own life their carer can accept that they tried everything they could. I must really start to think like that.

I can't explain how tiring this situation is. Today I can barely get off the sofa and I can't remember basic things. It is like my brain has reached it's capacity.

Thank you very much for posting. I hope things are going well for your husband and that you are keeping well yourself.

Ole thanks for posting. The hospital said I can ring them anytime. She can't access her key worker while she is on home leave as she is still under the care of the hospital.

I must try harder to eat healthy and go for a walk later. I can't bear the thought of getting off the sofa but I have to change . My mood is low, not low like DD's mood, but I need to try harder.

I hope that your child is doing well and you are getting some support for yourself.

I am finding MN invaluable. I can talk frankly about my fears on bere with people who know what I am dealing with. I cant be as honest with other people, they would be shocked and would worry too much.

DD even talking about alcohol and drugs just horrifies me. Last night she was saying that she could start going out again soon. The last time she did this she went out and was missing for a day and turned up in A&E having come off all her medication including lithium.

Hi Emerald , I am now 37 and have been stable for 5 years. However during my 20s I spent a lot of time is psychiatric hospitals extremely unwell. I dont remember much about my hospital admissions however my mum tells me I would ring her constantly crying and begging her to 'get me out ' as I found it very frightening , many times she would support me to get leave or the section cancelled . She openly tells me now that she was wrong to do so . And now I can see it from her eyes I feel embarrassed and ashamed at what I put my famity through when I was unwell.
Do you have a home treatment team that could help during your daughters hospital leave?

Hi Emerald,

I know exactly how exhausting it can be unfortunately. My husband is doing ok at the moment thanks. For me the thing that helped me accept that I wasn't in control and it wouldn't be my fault is he killed himself was when he disapeared and had no contact for over a week. I spent the whole week convinced he was dead. I don't reccomend it, but having been forced to let go of any control and face up to the worst scenario I've found it easier to step back and not try to control his illness the same way I used to.

Alcohol and weed are triggers for my husband too and I know how anxious I get even if he just has a few beers, so I can understand your concern. It souns like your DD is struggling to come to terms with her conditon and the impact it will have on her life and is at the point of fighting the diagnosis rather than learning to manage it. I've been there with my husband and its tough. When she stops fighting and accepts it will get easier. I'm sure you are both grieving right now though for the 'normal' future you both envisioned for her.

Thanks to you both for sharing your experiences. You did really well to get stable Hectic. Do you know what changed to make things better? Was it just time passing?

The hospital are very supportive and have assured me that I can access help if I need it.

Longer that week must have been hell. If I left my DD to her devices things would fall apart very quickly. She wouldn't get up, get dressed or wash. I think I will have to maintain a level of control for a while yet!

You hit the nail on the head when you said I am grieving and actually I think that is what is causing the tiredness. I know its the same for everyone caring for a loved one. My DD had the world at her feet. She is lovely looking, intelligent, funny, talented, kind and loves animals. I am not optimistic that I will see that untroubled girl again. Apologies for the self pity I just had to admit it to myself.

Lots of parents see their children not reaching their potential for lots of reasons like illness or accidents.I need to stop dwelling, sorry about being self indulgent.

You both struggled and things improved, I will follow your example.

Have a nice evening.

Hectic if my DD drinks or smokes weed I am going to tell the hospital I can't keep her safe. She is still sectioned so they will take her in.

Your mum is right about that and she obviously knows what she is talking about. I hope it doesnt come to that because DD will freak.

I'm glad you have support from the hospital. I think you are right to contact them if she is drinking or smoking weed especially as those are known triggers. I wonder if the hospital staff could help you draw up a contract with her about what behaviour is and isn't acceptable and what the consequences/rewards would be for following it. Yes she will be angry with you but sometimes tough love is neccessary to keep someone well. There are times when I have to harden my heart and do what is best for DH. He is often angry especially as he doesn't generally know he is unwell at the time (psychosis ) but once he starts to get better he realises that it's been done out of love for him and forgives me or even thanks me.

You are allowed to grieve, watching someone you love go through this is hell. And yes your daughter will be changed by it, but there is a good chance she can learn to manage it in a way that allows her to lead a happy and fulfilling life. A good friend of mine has bipolar, she had a bad time in her 20s but now in her 30s is happy, works part time and is a great Mum to her son. She will be on meds for life, but she now sees them as necessary to allow her to be a good mum. There is hope and light at the end of the tunnel. That doesn't mean that it's not hell right now though.

I hope it doesnt come to that because DD will freak.

If she freaks, that is okay. The hospital can handle freaking! Accepting that you cannot keep your own child safe looks tough but part of parenting as well; trusting professionals to support you and your DD, that sort of thing. A bit like trusting teachers to teach your child. I have no idea, I am not a parent, so I could be talking out of my ass.

You are allowed to grieve, watching someone you love go through this is hell. And yes your daughter will be changed by it, but there is a good chance she can learn to manage it in a way that allows her to lead a happy and fulfilling life. A good friend of mine has bipolar, she had a bad time in her 20s but now in her 30s is happy, works part time and is a great Mum to her son. She will be on meds for life, but she now sees them as necessary to allow her to be a good mum. There is hope and light at the end of the tunnel. That doesn't mean that it's not hell right now though.

^^ This. It is simultaneously important to not minimise your current situation, and to know that there are people in the world who have experienced what you and your DD are experiencing who still go around living their lives. It's not a write-off. You don't have to be optimistic at the moment, if you don't feel optimistic. I have heard it called "holding the hope". If you cannot hold the hope right now, that is okay. Let other people hold the hope for you. Like some of us on this board, with our recovery stories. I am trying not to be trite, so apologies if it comes across that way.

I got better when I settled onto medication and stopped trying to fight the fact that I will be medicated for life. The mood stabilisers cause weight gain and a flat feeling and if I'm honest I missed the highs (not the lows they were dreadful) and kept 'tweaking at the meds' to get the highs. Also worth a mention is that lorazepam prescribed is an absolute nightmare for someone with bipolar and impulsiveness . If your daughter is prescribed benzodiazepines. I would talk with her doctors. I also hated gaining weight. But the turning point was when I had my kids I finally engaged properly with mental health services .
I know you are in hellish place right now and that none of this helps the here and now. You are absolutely right to be setting her rules about smoking weed and drinking . Do you have any support for you?

emerald isle if your daughter is talking about going out that is a good thing (in a kind of roundabout way) as she is thinking of the short term future at least.

You are completely right in being strict with alcohol and weed, I'd say particularly weed. When I was in hospital last time I'd say the majority of people there had been smoking weed pre admission, and were keen to get back on it when they got out. Funnily enough, they had repeated admissions.

I'm assuming that she has had periods of time when she has felt better. I found the most useful thing when I was really depressed/suicidal was people being calm, and reminding me that I would get better, it had happened before, and it would happen again. Of course, I'd try and argue exactly why this time it was permanent, but it does sort of register in there somewhere. Can she phone the crisis team at all? I am another that only engaged once I had kids, and sometimes just babbling on to someone kept the urge to act away for a few hours. MH workers have support from other colleagues, where as you as a parent are under much more pressure.

I feel really bad for you. The sort of things your daughter is doing is the sort of things I put my parents through at that age. I've now got to double that age (god knows how) and as a parent myself I am horrified at what I did to my folks. You poor, poor thing It is possible that your daughter can have a good life, and there is nothing wrong with being on meds long term- once they are right it means she can start to get on with her life.

I was thinking you say that you can't let go of control or your daughter wouldn't get out of bed, wash or get dressed. There are times when I've not been arround that I'm pretty sure my husband has done none of those things, but he has survived. I supose it comes down the the differing relationships parent/child v husband/wife. I suppose have never been responsible for ensuring my husband is fed washed and dressed in the way a parent is and I don't take responsibility for it now either. I will encorage him but ultimately if he doesn't wash for a week thats up to him and I don't let it stress me, maybe just run him a bath if he's getting stinky lol.

I suppose what I'm saying is are there some areas where you could reduce stress levels for you both by relaxing some of the expectation?

Danger she was talking about going out to a local nightclub soon but she didn't press it. Funny you should mention weed. I honestly never knew she was smoking a lot of weed until a member of the crisis team told me the extent of it. I nearly fell over.

Our house is as calm as I can possibly make it. Since she's been home it is tricky because we can rub each other up the wrong way quite easily. I am determined to stay calm and be nice but I think it is tenuous. I struggled a few times today and just left the room. I managed to overcome it, much to my surprise, and I was very loving towards her.

When she heads off to bed she is like a child and I am enjoying soothing her off to sleep.

She really surprised me today. I mentioned the Recovery College to her yesterday and we looked at the courses today. She then rang the College herself and booked herself on a few courses, the first of which is starting on Friday. Luckily I am off work because both courses are 4 half days, so 8 sessions, and I can drive her there. I have had to take leave to mind her and I don't know how long that can last. I am worried about losing my job.

Hectic she is nowhere near accepting that she in on meds for life. She is only 20 and all her friends are out partying at the weekends. My DS 18 has told me that a lot of his friends and her's are under pressure to smoke weed and have social anxiety as a result of it.

Longer thanks for saying it is ok to grieve, that is so kind of you. *Erin, I laughed at talking 'outta my ass' because that is the look DD gives me a lot!

DD got her nails done today as a treat and was fine for a while. She just kept walking around when she got home and kept saying that she didn't know what to do. I suggested she watch telly or read her WRAP stuff and try to focus on her strategies that she had learned at the hospital. She just kept saying over and over that she was fat. She is not fat, she is 5' 8 and luckily has gone from emaciated to relatively normal but she thinks she is fat.

This is going to sound so bad but after hours of telling her that she is nowhere near fat and encouraging her to use her strategies I realised that I was just repeating myself over and over to no avail and I sat her down and told her quite sternly that she is not fat and I won't be repeating myself again.

I bought stuff for the dinner and told her to cook it for us and DS which she did. Then I told her to clear up the plates and take in the washing off the line. For some weird reason she did it. She complained a lot but I told her to stop. World War III didn't break out so all in all this evening went ok.

I am so grateful for you all posting. I am wide awake but getting tired now. I am fretting about being awake just like I did when the children were babies. I guess this parenting thing never ends. Night night x

When I was in hospital last time I'd say the majority of people there had been smoking weed pre admission, and were keen to get back on it when they got out. Funnily enough, they had repeated admissions.

When I was on the ward, one of the nurses told me that 80% of the admissions had substance misuse issues. To my knowledge, there is a link between strong cannabis and psychosis. This is one of the reasons I blanket refuse to smoke weed. I have enough MH stuff going on as it is. OTOH some people self-medicate with weed and seem to find it helps them. Is your DS able to stand up to his peers? Partying does not have to equal illegal drugs but it often does.

Off topic, but good to see you dangermouseisace, I remember you from a previous thread.

It is also not necessarily true that anyone will be on medication for life. It is more about accepting that medication might be helpful at the moment. Some people take medication for life; others come off it and then go on it again; others come off it unwisely; others come off it and stay well. If medication is helpful for your DD at the moment, then her staying on it for the moment is the important part, IMO.

Body image stuff is tough. I feel for you on that score. I am glad Recovery College is a positive in her life. If your RC is anything like our RC, you can also go on courses as a relative and carer, and in the future you might find this helpful? I would imagine who is allowed to enrol varies from NHS trust to NHS trust though, and your DD might feel as if RC is her thing and not want you to go, who knows? Possibly not a helpful suggestion for the moment if you are knackered!

The "I don't know what to do" part is tough. Does your DD work or study, or want to? You are driving her to and from RC but taking up your own annual leave to do this. You do not have to - does she drive, or can she take public transport? Does your employer know what is going on for you at home?

emeraldisle sounds like you're doing a great job. Just doing normal day to day things can help distract your daughter from her thoughts, and you're doing the right thing to tell her to do them as she's probably lacking the ability to think of that sort of thing at the moment. To be fair, it's probably a lot more therapeutic to be doing those sort of things than being in hospital. And it's great that she is up for the recovery college!

Re weed I am quite liberal about drugs having taken quite a few illegal substances in my time, but I think weed is far more dangerous than it used to be, and there is not enough made of the psychological impact and the relation with psychosis. It's seen as benign as compared to other drugs- it really, really isn't.

Nice to see you erin too. I'm not on here much at the moment as things are going well so I have to limit exposure to maintain that Hope things are good with you.

My son doesnt smoke it because it makes him paranoid. Interesting that so many patients smoke it. I was thinking about going to RC as DC said I could. I have decided not to go as I need a break from her and I think she wold be better going on her own.

When I've needed time off work when my husbands unwell My GP has always been happy to write a sick note. Hope things are going ok.

Really shit here. DS wanted to go out drinking tonight. I said it wasnt advisable and after her repeating over and over that she is 20 and can do what she wants, hitting walls and kicking doors. I rang hospital and a bizzare conversation ensued.

They told me to agree with her that she could have one drink and we agree a time for her to come home. She wanted it to be 1.00am and I said 11. She wanted to stay at her dad's so she could go drinking. She went on and on for about 30 minutes. I ask her to leave the room but she wouldn't. I left and she followed me around. I felt threatened by her. She said she was staying at her dad's and left.

I rang the hospital who said they would ring her and tell her if she had to notify me by 12 that she was safe that if I should ring the police and say she is a detained patient and is missing. They told her she was given leave on the grounds that she was staying with me and she was not allowed stay with him and if she did I was to ring the police.

My partner was here for the entire heard fiasco and was pissed off that DD was so threatening to me and that the hospital basically told her to do whatever she wants. We ended up arguing and I told him to leave. I told him our relationship was over and he did not need this shit storm.

DD has just rang me to say sorry and said the hospital has said she can stay at her dad's after all.

I am so devastated.Her father does fuck all and I do everything. I told hospital she threatened me and they let her go out drinking and stay at his effectively allowing her to tell me to go fuck myself.

I am devastated and wish I was dead. I am not suicidal but I am the only person who gets abused by her and all I get is shit.

I am going to tell her tomorrow she is not coming back here. I am sick of being abused. Her bipolar disorder is a very convenient excuse for abusing me mentally and physically since she was 14. I am totally devastated.

If anyone is about I would appreciate if you could post.

Hi Emerald,

Huge hugs to you.

Have the hospital definately told her that she can stay at her Dads or is that just what she has told you?

Personally I would ring the hospital and explain she can no longer stay with you, I would also state that you are no longer willing to be responsible for her and that you are handing responsibility back to them. See if that changes things at all. I can't quite get my head round someone being under section, which only happens if they are considered a risk to themselves or others, yet given this amount of freedom.

As for you, I think you are right that you need to put some boundries inplace to safeguard your own mental health. My DH can believe so awful things about me when he is ill, which can be heart breaking. Mental illness is never an excuse to abuse someone though.

Thanks for posting 'Longer*

I rang the hospital to check and they verifed it. I told the hospital almost to the letter what you suggested. I am offically out!

I am staggered that someone who is sectioned with suicidal thoughts and self harming impulses could be allowed home under the care of a person i.e. me who is basically clueless about the dangers. I told them I would do my best.

The reason they let her out was because she hated the hospital so much and as a result of that they thought staying in wasn't beneficial. I suppose they hoped it would go well. It went well until she realised she wasn't going to get things her own way.

The arrangements for allowing her out to have 'one' drink are beyond my comprehension. They said it was to give her some 'trust'. One of the nurses even told me there was no such thing as 'one' drink!

Her behaviour was abusive and I was scared.

She texted me a little while ago to say sorry and she would stay at her dad's to give me a break - laughable.

I think I will be uncontactable for the next few days and all of them can sort it out without me. I am very seriously considering not letting her home. I don't want her home