It feels as though the world of work won't let me be an adult

[Lifeisgreaterthandeath]

I'm looking for advice because I can't work this out, but it feels like employers just don't want me to be an adult.. Or to put it another way, refuse to ever know, or use, my skills well and reward me, but always seem to think I'm crap and useless..but I'm really not.

I'm qualified with a business qualification, am imaginative, personable, and results orientated, have a series of roles where I have exceeded expectations, but never seem to get a good review and/or bosses seem to want to fire me, or help someone useless at the expense of me 'to give them a chance' but I don't even earn enough to have the family I desperately want. I can't go on like this, but it just keeps happening. How do I either become mediocre, but promotable, or get the promotions I deserve without getting fired? I can see that despite my abilities being higher than average, I am barely at out of school wages despite the degree. My peers are becoming directors on £80k salaries, and people I know are performing worse than me are getting promoted ahead of me. What is going on?

Ok element. The analogy with every manager she encounters being a bully would be that every man she encountered was a rapist. Doesn't work does it.

Hmm. Do you have any good friends at work who you can ask about all of this? And have you ever received any useful feedback in annual appraisals?

The world of work has lots of subtle rules that no one tells you about... I'm wondering if you've failed to pick up on some of them.

Why is it harder to believe the OP may be a repeat victim of bullying or whatever, than it is to believe someone who has repeately been assaulted?

Victims of repeated assault don't tend towards displays of arrogance, or opining about why they didn't deserve repeated assault because they happen to be more skilled.

So are you saying, beauty, that like a victim of repeated assault 'should' behave, I should be cowed and subdued?

Actually, I have never received comment in annual review about behaviour. In fact I have rarely worked for organisations that actually do their annual appraisals. My last one said that I had mentioned too many achievements, but it wasn't carried out be the person who does the bullying.

I am taller than average as well, which some have suggested gets people's backs up, but I can't do much about that.

The thing is though, it really is stopping me being an adult. That's getting more and more distressing.

OP, if you were to engage with the many helpful comments and questions on this thread, sympathetic people would have something to work with.

Arguing with people and comparing your situation to that of a victim of domestic violence (extremely distasteful) is not going to achieve that.

I'm not saying that at all. What I AM saying is that you need to examine your own behaviour in order to try and understand why people react to you they way they do. Using the DV and assault analogy was in poor taste.

The rest of your last post was pretty much nonsensical and I'm starting to wonder if your IP address is under a bridge somewhere.

lottie put that much more diplomatically than I did!

What does 'being an adult' look like?

The analogy with every manager she encounters being a bully would be that every man she encountered was a rapist. Doesn't work does it.

Well that's only a sensible comparison if she'd only met a handful of men in her life. Statistically, not all men are rapists, no. Statistically not all bosses are bullies either - but the OP will only have had a few bosses in her lifetime.

Also, there is a correlation with psychopathic traits and people in positions of authority...
So it doesn't really answer the question, no.

It just seems to me there are certain people - often who have gone through bullying or abuse as children - who are sort of perpetual scapegoats throughout life. Certain others sense a weakness and choose to exert their little power games. Others simply don't treat the person as nicely as they would others. I've just observed it - certain people being marginalised, and often they are the nicest, most straightforward people. (A friend of mine told me that being honest and fairly logical freaked people out, because I wasnt joining in the social hierarchy/power games. I may have ASD and be blind to them...)
Don't know. Just a theory anyway...
I assume if there's anything in it you can change to stop subtly giving off 'victim' or 'doormat' vibes.

"In my case I have often worked in environments in which insecure people do sneak into positions where they can bully, because they are either 'give everyone a chance' place and/or both a 'promote by longievity' place, however I attract a lot of hassle in an unfair way."

Go with me here...

"In my case I have often worked in environments in which insecure people do sneak into positions where they can bully, because they are either 'give everyone a chance' place..."

If it's a 'give everyone a chance place', why weren't you given a chance?

"or both a 'promote by longievity' place,..."

If that's the case, why weren't you promoted after 9 years of service?

Do you see where I'm struggling with your assertions? You are saying things that contradict each other.

Your point about vibes may well be right element. It doesn't excuse the hideously self-pitying (and lacking in insight or empathy for those suffering rape or dv) analogy.

To explain another way why that is not a valid analogy. It is entirely possible to behave in an unpleasant, unfriendly or 'off' way which causes almost every person you meet to dislike you or feel indifferent towards you. It is not possible to behave in a way that provokes every man you meet to rape you. Rapists rape, bullies bully, both may seek out favoured types of victim. But everyone engenders responses from every person they meet and these can be very consistent if the person's behaviour is consistent.

So maybe OP has encountered some real bullies, it's entirely likely. But she is saying that practically everyone she has worked under, over many years, in many different companies, has responded to her in a similarly negative or indifferent way. It is therefore entirely reasonable to ask whether her behaviour, her manner, might possibly be the common factor. It is in no way analogous to asking whether a rape victim brought their attack upon themselves.

That horrible attempted analogy raises a question for me about why OP posted in mental health. I had thought it might be that she was exploring the idea of a personality disorder, depression, ASD or some such condition as a possible factor contributing to her experience. Certainly her reported experience of destroying relationships by obsessing over work issues at home suggests something unhealthy going on. She hasn't pursued that idea at all though. I'm now not at all sure that is what she intended.

lotie Rapists rape, bullies bully, both may seek out favoured types of victim. But everyone engenders responses from every person they meet and these can be very consistent if the person's behaviour is consistent.

I dont think rape and a kind of bullying by maginalisation are comparable in that particular way. What I mean is - yes, you get bullies who will pick on a particular victim, or victims. But you also get people who are sort of marginalised. Think of it as the difference between a child who is bullied and one who is just left out of things, no-one to play with.

What I mean is, I think it's something in human nature that squeezes someone out of the group. Not "one of us" type thing. Probably relating to something primitive about sharing resources. A tiny thing that marks someone out as "different" may begin this process, but it snowballs.

I'm sure I read a psychological study about this sort of thing... and how the person left out becomes highly attuned to people-pleasing and thus marks themsleves out for further marginalisation. Or something like that. Also don't people tend to naturally want to shrink away from someone in pain, or someone who's been victimised? Almost as if they're scared of becoming a victim by association, or can't bear to think such things happen... again, on a primitive and subconscious level.

Also, not absolutely everyone needs to marginalise or bully the person - just a critical mass of them. Or even perhaps one or two of the "leaders of the pack" types. So then others go along with it - probably subconsciosly.

This may then cause issues in other social groups - in this case the OP's home life - because the other people think they are making it up, overreacting etc. They don't believe the person because a) such an experience in unknown to them personally, and b) because the mechanisms by which someone is marginalised are unspoken, subconscious, and automatic in most of the population.

Wow, I had no idea I thought all that until I typed it out.
May be bullshit

In light of what I've written in previous comment, the icing on the cake is if that person is then diagnosed as personality disordered, due to the projection of others. I sometimes think the BPD label is a way of saying "you frighten me, because you make me want to hurt you". Ie. their natural, primitive instincts to exclude the person from society scare them as self-declared decent humans so they pin the blame on the person. That may be me projecting wildly though...

My money is on ASD for both me and OP though :(

Ps. FWIW I have experienced DV and rape (technically, I dont really count it though...) and sexual assualt - I find it interesting (and upsetting) that these experiences are taken far more seriously than other experiences that for me have worse/more far reaching effects.

Some instances where a person is repeatedly treated badly by others are viewed as never the person's fault. Yet other situations where someone is repeatedly hurt by others, the person themsleves is blamed or disbelieved - why is that?

I can't believe it's necessary to explain this, but:
There is absolutely no behaviour which would make rape/DV acceptable
There is most definitely behaviour which would make it appropriate for someone not to be promoted, or which would explain why the OP is not having success at work.

OP, you say it really is stopping me being an adult - what do you mean by that? Their behaviour is somehow infantilising you? I don't see how that's possible from what you've described.

FWIW I have ASD and BPD (EUPD). Personally I don't think the OP comes across as having either of these. However I am not a professional and, having never met the op in real life, can not make any judgements about potential diagnoses.

OP is this in Mental Health because of how much it is distressi g you and 'preventing you from being an adult'? If so, then you may find it helpful to talk this over with a professional. It is concerning that your opinion of how you do in your job is a reflection of whether or not you feel you are succeeding at life and 'being an adult'.

I don't think being an adult is much about your job. I class myself as an adult, and yes I do have a job. All be it a very basic entry level job into my field of work. I will progress, but whilst my DCs are small I don't want to. That doesn't mean that I'm not an adult.

It sounds like (and I am making an assumption here) you have a well-paid job. If the difference between you and the next level is £20k then you are likely to be earning at least 20k to start with if not a lot more. I don't earn anywhere near that much. If your happiness / measure of success is dependent on progressing up the ranks of your profession are you applying for next level positions with other companies or undertaking any training to better your CV? Or are you just waiting for an internal promotion that may never become available?

giraffes Thanks for the explanation. It's still really upsetting that rape and dv ar believed, yet other really horrible inexcusable stuff isn't. I've had really horrible experiences that have affected me much more than SA and DV and yet people don't believe me... the not being believed has made those experiences far worse.

Like the OP, I also feel marginalised and like people are living by different rules when it comes to me. Not everyone - but the ones who aren't have made varying comments about me being straightforward and/or not going along with the social hierarchy/loyalties over truth. So I think it's perfectly possible someone a bit 'different' who doesn't play the social game could be marginalised without doing anything 'wrong' as such.

I don't think that's true, EOS. I think that some people have a distorted perception of situations. For the OP to work in an organisation which 'gives everyone a chance' yet hasn't given the OP a chance, and to work in an organisation which promotes by longevity, yet the OP's 9 years service didn't bring promotion, is an indication that something has actively prevented the OP from progressing.

Social marginalisation is one thing and might happen informally amongst a group of colleagues. Employment practice and legislation though, mean you cannot just reject someone for a job, if they are demonstrably the best candidate. Even if you don't particularly like them.

You can though, have all sorts of legitimate criteria for a role, that might include for example being a good customer-facing representative of the company, working well and collaboratively with colleagues and managers, contributing positively to strategy development etc and might well, perfectly reasonably, reject a candidate you thought would not fit the role.

This is why OP should be making use of appraisals and interview feedback, actively - they are a two way process - to ascertain what it is exactly that she would have needed to get the job / promotion that she did not have, how she could develop her skills and experience to achieve her agreed development objectives, or whether it was just bad luck that time, as an outstanding candidate pipped her to it. If her managers think she is being unrealistic, or just does not have the right personality type for the sort of role she wants (e.g. Someone might be a fantastic lawyer but not be outgoing enough to deliver the salesmanship element that goes with being a partner in a firm) she should ask them to say so.

As a pp said, she'd really need to listen to the answers - and be willing to believe what others are telling her.

I wish there were appraisals in real life. "Darling, it's time for our yearly marriage appraisal"... etc.

It's still really upsetting that rape and dv ar believed, yet other really horrible inexcusable stuff isn't. I've had really horrible experiences that have affected me much more than SA and DV and yet people don't believe me... the not being believed has made those experiences far worse.

With respect I think you're letting your own experiences colour your judgement here. If the OP was about SA or DV, then "inexcusable" would go without saying, and the only question would be whether to believe the poster- okay that's simplified a bit, but it's what it would boil down to. And in general the assumption is that it's better to take the risk of believing someone who's lying.

Whereas here, the "inexcusable" is not a given- there might be good reasons why the OP hasn't been promoted. And without picking at the OP's version of events, which does contain some unusual elements, no one is going to work out what might be the best advice for the OP. I think most if not all of the skepticism on this thread is well intentioned.

Op - were you brought up in the UK? I work with people of quite a lot of different nationalities and have had a few occasions when I have felt someone was acting "off" or unprofessionally whilst the way they were acting would be seen as completely appropriate in their culture.

The last point is true. I am a city person working in a small town, and what I believe is easily possible, a lot of people at the level I'm working at think is completely impossible. This does mark me out a little, but the worst is that the 'mystery knowledge' the latest bully uses is second nature

Mum of two what examples are they ?