Depressed DM wanting to look after children

[SoulKitchen]

NC for this but some of you may recognise elements ... Would be really grateful for some advice on handling this situation.

DM has suffered from depression on and off all my life, and anxiety more or less all the time. The only people she is comfortable with are DC. We didn't see her for 14 mths from Oct 2013-Dec 2014, when she had a really terrible period of depression catalysed by an incident between the two of us. Normally, she puts me on a pedestal and I feel almost suffocated by her attention, so for her to turn on me after a misunderstanding was unprecedented. She would only communicate by text for all this time and at the start, called me some horrible things. Left me off her 2013 Xmas card to the family.

Just before Christmas past, she managed to come and visit us, after quite a few false starts where she would plan on coming then send me a text in the morning saying she was ill. She's now visited 3 times. (Though she only lives about 5 miles away, we are not allowed to go and visit her.) After the second visit, she texted to say she soon hoped she'd be able to look after the DC up to 5 days a week. I felt that that was preposterously unrealistic. After her latest visit, she again texted (she wouldn't actually talk to me face to face) that she hoped to take over the childcare 'in a few weeks' from our childminder.

This is the bit I'm struggling with. She refuses to discuss the 14mth period when she was angry, depressed and out of contact. I feel galled and frustrated by some of the labels she applied to me at that time, and want to talk about it and address it - it feels like such a huge injustice to me and I am desperate to clear the air - have felt as though I've been in limbo all that time. She's said 'don't ask me to discuss things I'm barely half-recovered from.'

I feel like it's all a big awkward pretence, her coming to the house to see the kids and talk about the fucking weather with me, when we have this huge elephant in the room that needs to be sorted out. I feel silenced. But at the same time - if I'm being honest with myself - I don't believe it affects her ability to look after my DC, and I know something like this shouldn't be used as some sort of bargaining chip: 'talk to me or you can't look after the DC'. I know that's not right. But it galls me! I also know that's the wrong response from me again, as of course she didn't choose to have depression and any horrible words from her to me were her illness talking. But just to brush it all under the carpet and pretend that everything's back to normal?? I don't know if I can do that.

Any advice really appreciated.

Thank you, Heyhey. I feel good just now, though I'm almost certain that what comes back will be some sort of stalling tactic. We'll see.

Just read this thread. Hope you get a response to your text. What would worry me us that your dc seem to be all she lives for and that will put an incredible strain on you and soon them. My DM claims she only sees the dc because we need her help. Nonsense of course but her manipulative way; I have now realised that I cannot let her treat them this way or they will feel the burden. Dd has already seen thro her and refuses to spend time with her but ds is a softer personality and she is taking advantage of that.

Do be careful how this is impacting on your dc as they get older - as you say the situation is far from normal if she only comes to you and will barely talk to you.
I would probably let her carry on and maybe even take over from the CM if she is not that good but talk to your children (ddefinitely ds at 10) about her and her illness etc.
Hope you get it sorted.

She does sound highly manipulative. I would not let her do the childcare if she won't talk to you in a normal way.

It does put your children in a bad situation and they will soon pick up the atmosphere.

She needs professional help, but you and your children are not the cure. You are not responsible for her mental wellbeing.

I grew up with a depressed and very manipulative mum, she still is, at 75, she has never sought help. My sister and I moved far far away.

I'm honestly quite shocked at most of the posts on here and I can't believe any of you have suffered from depression apart from heyhey - if you had experienced this horrendous illness I don't think you could be so uncaring. Obviously I don't know the OP's DM but she has suffered from depression on and off all the OP's life and she is always anxious.

I am shocked that some people on here are actually denying that this woman is depressed. She's been called "highly manipulative" and all sorts of other unpleasant things, which I think does demonstrate a total lack of understanding about mental health problems. I suffer from intermittent depression which can be severe at times, and in those times, I don't want to see anyone, I've lost contact with a lot of my friends because I never know when I can keep to any arrangements. Someone said up thread "People who are depressed, are depressed all the time" and this is absolutely not the case. One day I can be fine and the next paralysed with dark thoughts, lacking in any motivation and just want to stay under the duvet.

If the OP's mother is anxious, then YES she will be afraid to do things, because that's what anxiety is - fear not of anything in particular but fear of the way we feel. Depression takes away "who we are" - the "me" if you like and it can feel like a stranger has taken over your mind. The lady appears to be ok with her grandchildren, but the opposite is true for me, I'm scared to see my grandchildren when I'm feeling crap - I don't want them to see me when I'm "not me" as I am usually a positive person, and like playing with them etc.

I'm sure our personality and disposition play a part in depressive illness but one thing I know for sure is that we can't "pull ourselves out of it" - that's just not possible. I don't know what the issues were between the OP and her mother and I think MH issues make us hyper sensitive and sometimes hyper critical, and this may be the case, I don't know. I'm not at all sure OP why it is so important to you to "have the body out" so to speak about the difficulties between you, even though everyone else seems to understand that. It may be that your mother simply isn't capable of having this discussion - maybe she's afraid it will end in more misunderstandings and she's scared of "lifting the lid" for fear of what's inside the box.

As for the computer issues, I can fully understand why this lady is unable to embrace IT especially if it is all entirely new to her. I am fortunate that I used it a lot in my job before I retired.

Hmm.........sorry if this sounds too forthright, but I'm just used to people on the MH threads being supportive of each other - and was - well - shocked to read all kinds of unkind things being said about this lady who has suffered mental illness for so many years.

I'm sure it's difficult for you OP and I'm sure you've been very hurt too and it must have affected you so much being brought up by a mom with MH issues, and maybe this is one of the reasons for the way you feel now in relation to your mom, and I think therapy for you would be a really good idea.

Being depressed doesn't make you treat your daughter like crap while happily playing with the grandchildren.
Of course I believe she is depressed and cannot snap out of it, but the way she treats OP smells of manipulation.
And yes, I do have experience of depression.

I agree coffee. I accept that depression (having experience myself too!) can impact on not wanting to face things; that said, it doesn't stop you from explaining to those you care about that you still do love them, despite your condition and does not prevent treating them respectfully or stop you being respectful of their feelings and wishes.

Thank you very much for giving another perspective, NanaNina.

I'm not at all sure OP why it is so important to you to "have the body out" so to speak about the difficulties between you, even though everyone else seems to understand that.

I suppose the reason for this is that if we do not talk through the horrible things that happened, interactions between us from now on will feel utterly false, unnatural and, as I mentioned, as though there is always an enormous elephant in the room. Talking about the weather, when all the time I have at the back of my mind the fact she completely unfairly called me ‘cruel’ and ‘stupid'. I’m not suggesting for a second that I want to ‘have it out’ with her in some big face-off, or argue with her, or anything like that. All I want to do is talk. When she is labouring under a false impression about the events of the past – possibly even deluded about them – and careful, gentle conversation about the matter might actually inform her properly, and change her point of view, aren’t my attempts to get her to communicate reasonable?

Is your point of view that all unpleasant behaviour is excusable; all bets are off, if someone has depression? It’s a genuine question; I’m not trying to be confrontational at all, and am quite prepared to be told that yes, this is the case, and you think I must subjugate ALL my feelings on the issue and do everything on her terms, as I am the healthy one and she is ill.

Rationally, I can see this point of view, however galling I might find it, and if someone like you, NN, with wide experience of the illness tells me this, I’m inclined to bow to your greater knowledge. Maybe I just have to put up with it for the rest of my/her life, as I doubt she will ever volunteer to talk about it. That if I have a problem with it, I just have to deal with it or, more than this, I shouldn’t have a problem with it as I should understand that everything is borne out of her illness, and beyond her control. Everything.

[To be fair, it’s not that she doesn’t embrace IT; the issue was purely the fact that she panicked about allowing someone into her bedroom – an invasion of her privacy which she wasn’t expecting or prepared for – followed by the crippling inertia and inability to make plans and follow them through which has always been a feature. She would LOVE to be online! ]

What would your advice to me be? If she says she will never be prepared to talk about what happened, I must accept that? (I’m prepared to be told that yes, this is the case.) Do you think it's acceptable to put in front of her the fact that the last 18 months has been painful for me too, and that she hasn't acknowledged that? Or do I need to keep that under wraps as well and hope she just guesses? As I touched on before, I actually don't know that she doesn't just assume I have been airily enjoying my life as always, unbothered in any way by the conflict between us. I do think that's actually possible!

I suspect that many on this thread have been brought up by a mentally ill / depressed parent. That's the case for me. As a result I completely agree with much of what you say about depression. However even if you understand what the mechanics of the illness are, even if you are used to making - willingly - lots of allowances for the depressed person, there comes a point when you have to allow your own children's welfare and -gasp- even your own feelings to take precedence over a depressed parent. It's so difficult to do but to pretend that you don't have emotional needs of your own gets into dangerous territory. There isn't much safe space for the children of mentally ill parents to talk about this stuff- talk about it without blaming the parent for what can often feel like abusive behaviour.

Plantsitter - some very wise words there. Continuously denying or surpressing your own feelings because you have to tiptoe around someone else (depressed or otherwise) is completely unhealthy and made me very ill in the end so things had to change for my situation. And I felt so much better after!

Oh Soul you certainly don't need to "bow to my greater knowledge" - I think the problem is for these internet debates are that we only know a very small snippet of information on the OP, and from there on the thread can take many twists and turns. I have no idea about how bad your mom's depression is or how she is affected by it, but then neither does anyone else on the thread, and I think I was shocked by some of the comments that seemed very unkind.

I certainly don't think you should subjugate all (or any) of your feelings because of your mother's depressive illness and I take the points that plantsitter and missabc have made above. It's difficult to advise you what to do because we have no idea what the IT is, and I'm not suggesting you say any more about it on here unless you want to. I think you said normally your mother puts you on a pedestal and this (whatever it was) was unprecedented. Surely that must count for something if it was the first time there has been conflict between you.

What of your wider family - and your DH/DP if you have one - do they have any views on this - is your father alive? Do you have aunts, cousins etc or friends who know your mom and might be able to shed some light on the reason for the conflict. I keep using the word "conflict" as I don't know what else to use - but it is almost always the case that there are faults of both sides when misunderstandings occur - can you accept that.

Have you been able to talk to anyone else about what happened as sometimes if we are able to do this it helps us to recover some of our emotional equilibrium, and maybe see things in a slightly different light. I suppose it all depends too on what you want to get out of this talk you want with your mother. If you just want the whole thing out in the open and move on, then that's very understandable, but you risk that opening up old wounds might actually not enable either of you to move on, but a greater chasm would be the outcome.

The other thing is that you say how good your mom is with the grandchildren - they have a right (as do all children I think) to have a good relationship with their extended family, especially grandparents, so would it be worth trying to steer some middle course to enable the children to enjoy their grandmother's company again.