I don't love my new baby yet - he's 9 weeks old

[stefcee]

I know I don't love my new baby. He is my second son and my elder son is 2 1/2 and is an angel - my best friend.
This new baby was such a wanted pregnancy, especially after suffering a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy in 2002. I had massive problems at the beginning of this one with bleeding until 16 weeks, then I had very painfull SPD which began at just 22 weeks. Finally he arrived at 39 weeks by emergency c-section after I attended a hospital appointment during which it was discovered he had turned into a breech position at 39 weeks - and whilst I was actually at the appointment my contractions started so the consultant immediately arranged the c-section. I had only about an hour to prepare mentally that he was coming NOW - not in another week or two, and he was coming by c-section not vaginally as I had been anticipating for the previous 39 weeks.
Now he's here and almost constantly crying. My eldest son was in a brilliant routine from day dot, sleeping 7 hours at 4 weeks, smiling at 3 weeks. My newest son still only sleeps 4-6 hours max at night, almost constantly crys when awake - I just have this overwhelming feeling that I have done the wrong thing having this baby. My eldest son has found me in floods of tears when I just can't hack the crying anymore. I just want to walk out and leave but I know I can't. My family don't live close by and my husband doesn't help when he comes in the door from work and starts moaning that the house is untidy or that something pathetic like that. I just feel so down at the moment and really didn't expect to be feeling like this. I know all babies are different, but he is like the exact opposite to my eldest son.
Sometimes I feel like I just wish I hadn't had him. I don't feel any bond what so ever - the c-section didn't help because I didn't hold him for nearly 1 1/2 hours after he was born, and so far I've only had about 3 smiles out of him.
Am I mad or do I have PND? I just keep wishing the time away and waiting for the love to come.

Have you spoken to anyone about how your feeling? It sounds like your going through hell and you need some kind of support or back up that is maybe not coming to you from your dh!

I felt the same towards my ds. I had been very depressed during the pregnancy and had a dd who had always been an angel child. I wanted another girl and was very disappointed to get a boy. I bf and tried to bond, but he was difficult, he fed more hungrily and regularly and I often resented him wanting yet another feed. I don't think I bonded with him until he smiled at me for the first time, then my heart melted a little. But I was still comparing him unfavourably to dd.

Having no.2 is just such hard work, you feel that you are ignoring your first, betraying them almost. You cannot give the baby your full attention either and resent them for taking you away from your firstborn. But as they start to develop individually you do get to like them. With ds it did take me a long time, he didn't sleep through until he was about a year old and even now he wakes up at night every so often. He is so much more aggressive and demanding, tantrumy and testing. Yet I do love him now, dearly, but it took time to grow. Just relax and be with him, nuzzle him, smile at him and watch him smile back. Don't force feelings that are not there, they will come in their own time.

I think you have pnd due to alot of factors. I think a chat with your health visitor or GP may help. I have heard alot of mothers being honest and saying that they haven't bonded with their second one easily or at all until very late which they felt very guilty about. The thing is, when no 2 arrives, No 1 is very established and you are used to the charm and antics and look of No 1, there is still alot of getting to know no 2 and this takes time, especially when the first one has more demands due to the age. You are also tired which changes your way of thinking. A new baby and a 2.5yr old and no help is frankly difficult and you will get over it but it takes time, rest, an adjustment to having the responsibility of two now.

im sorry u feel like this u have been trough alot..
i think u should talk to your health visitor about how u r feeling, many parents go trough this at first , and find it hard to bond epecially if u have had a traumatic, eventfull birth, try not to be hard on yourself, i would deffo recoomend talking to someone, and getting some help that u need, xx

Another thing, men don't understand womens' emotions and in the rare instance that they do, they are not the norm! Your DH probably wants your attention too and you of course have a nb and a 2.5 yr old to care for.

yes, do see gp - or is hv any good? friends or a baby group? i know how awful it is when a young baby cries a lot. you sound very unhappy and i do hope you can get some help.

I don't know about PND, but I know it took me a while to "bond" with my ds and I have other friends who similarly took a few months to really click. I think those who bond immediately are very lucky, but with all the hormones and such a hard pregnancy/labour, you're bound to feel a bit at sea. Our ds is (overall) really quite good and has always been pretty easy-going and I worry that if we have another, I will have all these expectations about what they should be like on the basis of ds and be disappointed if they aren't.

Don't know what else to say, other than speak to your dh. It doesn't sound like he's being supportive and, if you're finding it difficult, he should be there to support you in whatever way he can; not to moan about the house!!

I'm sure things will get better, but may be you should talk to your hv and get assessed for pnd.

First things first, the feeling of regret after having a much planned second baby is certainly not news to me - I had moments prob for the first 6 months of thinking "why did I do this" and "why didn't I realise how much easier it was just having 1 child?" So don't think you're completely off-track on that one.
Doesn't sound to me like you're getting enough support from your h - I mean really! Untidy house! Get real.
I do think that it may be worth seeking help from your HV or GP maybe. Don't think it could hurt to see them and ask if they could advise you on PND because, without support and feeling as you do, think that you're putting yourself under enormous strain.
If your dh wants a tidy house, would you both consider getting a cleaner?
Wlll your oldest start pre-school/play group soon to give you a chance to be alone with your new baby?
My ds was completley different to his older sister in every way, but luckily for me in many respects he was better at the things that mattered to my sleep-addled brain at that time - he slept better and was generally more contented. Didn't have colic and while he wasn't such a pleasure to feed, he didn;t want to be fed ALL the time like dd did, so was swings and roundabouts.
Really hope that things get better soon. As soon as you start to get larger chunks of sleep you may feel more positive, but just to be sure I would def seek further help from professionals.
Good luck!

Also - with regard to him being born by c-section would it maybe be a good idea to see a cranial osteopath to see whether that helps? DS was born very quickly and was pretty cranky for the first couple of months and I think that seeing a CO helped him- it certainly made me feel positive that I was doing something to help him, and DH used to look after dd when I took him, so got a bit of a break too.

Wow - i'm new to MN so to get a quick response is amazing. I am going to see the GP on Thursday but I'm so afraid that I'm going to end up on AD. My sister and mum both suffer with depression and anxiety. I've tried to tell my mum how i'm feeling but she just says 'see the doctor and take the pills' - I'm not sure that is going to fix the problem. I'm pretty sure it boils down to the birth. With my eldest I gave birth vaginally, and it was an induced birth so I had time to prepare. This one, I had spent 39 weeks being told he was head down, remembering back to my first birth and making plans on how I was to do this one better. Having all of that taken away from me in a matter of an hour during what I thought was going to be another routine hospital appointment was and still is the hardest thing. I basically feel quite cheated to be honest, and all of the other emotions have spun out of this.
There is very little support for me from hubbie - yes he is great with both children and as he held new baby for the hour or so after the birth he has a good bond with him, but when the kids are both in bed there is absolutely no intimate time between us. No kissing, hugging, we face different directions in bed, we sit on opposite sofas to watch TV - there just doesn't seem time for us to be MR and MRS.
I do go to a toddler group, but I've been telling them how wonderful everything has been going for fear that they might start to judge - this is why stumbling on this website was a bit of a release to be honest.
I will go and talk with the GP and hopefully I can arrange to talk it through with a counseller - although I don't know when exactly I will get the chance and it would be nice to go without taking both children.
Thanks for all the replies so far - already its nice to see that I'm not just the only one!

I have thought about the Cranial Osteopath because he does still have a fair degree of molding on the back of his head but everytime I've mentioned it to a GP or HV they have said it is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about - I'll try anything if it is worth a go so I'll look in to it.
Further note on hubbie is that he has always been a bit obsessed with cleanliness thanks to his mother - I won't even get started on things I do before my MIL comes over because then you lot will think I'm really putting myself under pressure!

stefcee - there is lots in your post that I can relate to. dd2 somehow wasn't the baby I was expecting - she came in a real rush - not quite such a rush as you but still a pretty unsettling start to her life - she was born at home and delivered by dh before the mid-wife/ambulance got here. with dd1 I had the most incredible post-birth rush of immediate overwhelming love - it just didn;t happen with dd2. dd1 was also "good" - settling into a routine quickly whereas dd2 ran circles round me. I spent many an afternoon struggling to feed her on the sofa, getting stroppy with dd1 and crying. The first 3 months were pretty hellish. BUT - here comes ths positive bit - first I had a great health visitor who spotted that I was teetering on the edge of PND - she visited me at home once a week for about 6 weeks and was great - really good to have a non-friend (if that makes sense) to off-load to. she really made a difference - so, tell your GP/health visitor how you're feeling and see if they can help; second - it does get easier - as I got to know dd2 I did get better at coping with the daily routines and third (and possibly most importantly) my relationship and bond with dd2 developed - it was/is different from that with dd1 (who's in many ways my little soul-mate) but now I positively embrace that difference - dd2 is my little rebel - I am in awe of her, I adore her - because in so many ways she is so different from me. I love the fact that I love them differently - because they're different people and because it has enriched my experience of being a mother. I'm not sure if that's comforting for you right now - but what I'm trying to say is it will come - don't try to compare - and don;t try to rush it. basically - try to get help; and try not to put pressure on yourself to feel a bond. good luck with everything.

i took my dd to a CO for help with breastfeeding and while we were there she told me that a lot of her clients are babies who cry because the moulding of their heads isn't right. (can't explain what she meant by right, sorry). anyway, she said that it's all very well for HVs and Paeds to say, 'it's normal, it'll sort itself out' when they're not the person that has to deal with a constantly screaming baby because they are in pain. she said that she can really help babies who have pain, and that it's the best part of her job.
you do sound like you are having a difficult time of it, but then if you have so much going on (including needing to have a blithering tidy house - ridiculous) then i'm not surprised you're feeling the strain.
if you can speak to your HV about it that would be good, if not try to confide in someone but also make an app at the CS therapist. good luck with everything, my dd was one of those good babies who slept through from 6 weeks but i still was exhausted with it all... and she was my only one and my house was a shitpit...

PS i also had two ectopics so i know how crappy that is and i definitely think it prevented me from bonding with the baby during the pregnancy but i was lucky that she was easy when she was born.

Stefcee,firstly big virtual hugs if you do them.You are not mad,just normal,you had a traumatic birth,are looking after a toddler and grouchy newborn with little support and hardly any sleep. Having no 2 is so hard if you had a "Good" first one.The first few weeks are hell on earth.I discovered mn when dd 2 was about 4 months.It has helped me no end to vent on here.DD was a very rapid (but uncomplicated so im lucky there) birth.She had awful colic/relux and I was a mess,I felt totally out of control,sickeningly sleep deprived ,dp was being an arse,I felt I was letting ds down,I was iritable,tearful and yelled at poor ds several times.I hated trying to split myself a hundred ways.My family lived several hundred miles away and I had never felt so low,alone and on the edge.Eventually I went and talked to hv and broke down.He was fab actually and offered lots of advice and support.
I did have a rush of love for dd initially but in those first few months it somehow got lost along the way.I loved her,yes,but it wasnt the same as the relaxed,easygoing time I had had with ds.Everything was a struggle.She hardly slept just catnapped.When the sleeping had got sorted a little and the feeding was not so frequent and dp began to pitch in and help a little more (what a battle that was!)things became much easier and I suddenly began to really relate to dd and "Fell in love" with her properly.I think 2-3 months in was the worst point.I used to go to the bottom of the garden and weep when ds went for his nap and leave poor dd bawling in her cot.(Just for ten minutes peace! awful mum huh?)
As the prev poster says it does get easier,a routine will start developing and Im sure when you are not so exhausted and your little one starts settling into a pattern you will see his personality emerging and love will come.Please try not to beat yourself up youve had a traumatic time with the birth and it is very very tiring with two.In a few months you will love both your babies and marvel at how different they are.(dd is such a little character now and a real "cuddly" baby,ds was much more fiercely independent.)I love seeing the two of them giggling at each other,or ds giving dd a big hug and kiss and dd trying to shout ds name in an endearing manner!Hang on in there,see your gp/hv,sit down with your dh and tell him frankly how crap you are feeling if you can.Insist he gives you a little time just for you even if its just getting in a nice hot bubble bath while he has the kids,if he has never had the two together it may be an eyeopener for him.(In desperation I did this to dp,I left a bottle of EBM and went to see a friend for two hours one Saturday morning leaving him with the kids,things did improve after that)Good luck,I really feel for you and hope things get better soon,keep posting on here as there is always someone bound to reply!

CONGRATULATIONS you are normal. You and your body have been through soooo much, no wonder you are finding it difficult to "love" your baby. Give it time. If you feel able to talk to GP or HV then do so. It took me nearly 2 years after ds2 was born to admit that i had depression. That fact that you have actually taken the time to write all that you have, just makes me think, this woman really does love her child and would do anything for them.

Stefcee, reading your first post brought back really vivid memories for me and I echo everything all the previous posters have already said.
Wrinklytum's story is absolutely identical to mine, life felt like a living hell when dd2 was born. Colic, reflux, not putting on weight, not sleeping etc etc etc. I just couldn't bond with her at all; would willingly have 'given her back' if I could have found someone to take her. I even worried myself that one day I was going to harm her (I never did).
After the all encompassing love I had immediately for dd1 I felt like a failure. I think I cried everyday for about 14 weeks.
It took nearly a year to admit and seek help for depression and as part of this DH and I also had some relationship counselling which helped both of us understand why we had reacted in the way we did when DD2 was born.
Like Corrinna says you are clearly a very very good mother. This stage will get better, you will fall in love with your second child and it will be every bit as strong as you feel for our first. Seek help from GP or HV, your feelings are normal and the love will come, I promise.

I'm another mum who relates to what you are saying. My first dd was like your first, an easy baby and my mate when at 2yr 4months her sister was born. It took me ages to bond with dd2, I couldn't understand how I was supposed to feel the same about this stranger as I did about dd1 who I'd know for over two years.

With hindsight I'm not sure that dd2 was a harder baby than dd1, for starts there's an element of rose tinted specs because although your first baby might well be 'good' its impossible to believe that there was never a time when they cried for ages or woke a lot at night. You just look back and remember that overall you had a good baby.

Also the first time you only had to look after that one baby, now you can't lie in bed feeding for hours on end because you have a toddler climbing into bed first thing. You are jugling and having to put the child you know well and love second at times to a stranger.

I also think I had pnd - what 'cured' me was getting pg again v quickly and having to admit to dh that I was worried about how I felt about dd2 let alone a new baby. Finally he was on side and between us we were determind not to feel the same again with the third child, I got lots of help and sure enough bonded with him straight away. it's not a cure I'd recommend - I only have 11 months between them!

Lastly with regard to the AD's - you might want to consider StJohns Wort. I've suffered depression recently and didn't want to take the ad's that the gp prescribed. Looked on here and found out that SJW has been medically proved to work as effectively on mild to moderate depression. They take a while to work, like ad's - but for me within two weeks I really felt an improvement. Now I'm 90% better.

Hope that all helps - sorry it's so long, but I see myself in you.

i also relate and yes do get all the help you can get but I really think this is pretty normal. Real bonding does take time. With a first child they are your world and you have all the time in the world to dote on them and deal with their crying etc. By the time they are a toddler they are fun, chatty and loving (at least some of the time anyway) and have unique amazing personalities. A new baby can seem boring and extremely tiring in comparison. my dd2 is now 13 weeks and I have loved her since the day she was born but I'm only just beginning to bond more with her. I'm not at all worried, I'm just looking forward to see her personality developing and getting to know her - I can't wait until we have the same bond that I do with ds1 (19mo), which we will.
I understand exactly how you're feeling. Don't expect too much of yourself. Make sure you spend lots of time with ds1 as he still needs it and he will cope much better with ds2 if he doesn't feel he's losing out on time with you. Your baby will start smiling and cooing a lot more over the next few weeks. Don't worry about the housework at all- your dh should be more understanding- it's virtually impossibly to cope with household chores and a newborn baby (and an older child).

You are not alone!

Stefcee, I can relate to a lot of what you are saying.
I stuggled to bond with my twin boys, I was desperate for a daughter, so that didn't help ( I have a older son)
I had a traumatic birth, it didn't live up to my expectations.
One twin had colic and just cried and cried. It was a nightmare.
I can't comment on whether you have pnd, it could just be a normal reaction to your circumstances or you might benefit from ADs
All i can say, is, that I am bonded with my twins now, as they grew into individuals I started to love them for who they are, not regret what might have been.
i hope that this is what happens to you.

I can totally empathise with you here. I felt very similar after the birth of my second child.
I didn't plan to have another child after DS1 (who suffered terrible colic for first few months) & was very shocked when I found myself pregnant, despite being on the pill.
My husband never wanted any children & was very unsupportive throughout the entire pregnancy. As a result of this, I suffered from depression throughout my entire pregnancy & went into a strange state of denial.
I hadn't got my head around the fact I was having a baby when DS2 was born. H showed no interest in his new son & I panicked about how life would be with this second child.
I really struggled to bond with him, he almost didn't feel like my baby.
I would literally dress him, feed him & then put him down in his baby chair. There was very little in the way of cuddles in the first few months of his life & I would find myself crying & crying, but I didn't know why.
I eventually had to confide in my HV, who was a tower of strength & quickly got me help in the form of ADs & counselling. She also visited me for quite a while to check I was ok.
I remember saying to her "I don't love him like I love DS1"
She told me that maybe I needed time to get to know him & hopefully things would improve once DS2 developed his own personality.
I slowly started to recover from the PND, & soon, as DS started smiling, then giggling & babbling & generally becoming his own little person, the love started to grow...and grow!
He is now 3.5 years old & I love him to pieces! He is a real little character, a totally different character to DS1 & I love them both equally.
It is hard for me to believe that I once struggled to love him in the way that I do now.
It sounds to me like you may have a little PND.
I haven't read through all the posts, so forgive me if you have already mentioned this, but do you feel you may be able to have a word with your HV & explain some of how you are feeling?
My HV proved to be a great source of support for me.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, & it will get better...I promise.

& big sympathies with the constant crying, I know how very draining that can be.
Have a word with your HV about this too, she may well be able to help you out.

Thanks to all who have contributed to my 'cry for help' - already just 24 hours on I feel that I have had a better day just knowing 'i'm not the only one'! I'm off to see the GP tomorrow and hopefully I will get a referal to see a counsellor just so I can blurb out everything to someone who is not there to judge.
I've also booked new baby in for a session of cranial oesteopathy next Tuesday which will either help or not - anything is worth a try. Thanks again, I'll try to keep my chin up and plod on (as us mums tend to do) and I'll update with any news and keep checking this thread for anyone else's kind words of support! xxxx

You're certainly not the only one, stefcee.
Good luck with the gp tomorrow, I really hope they are helpful. (I am sure they will be!)
The first 3 months are the toughest, but it does get easier, just keep that thought in your head!
Good luck & keep us posted.xx