This isn't right is it - therapist

[springykyrie]

I've been seeing a therapist for just over a year. I have experienced a major loss which I am badly struggling to come to terms with, hence therapy. Due to a toxic childhood/family I have had a lot of therapy at various times over the years.

At first, and for months, I talked and talked (and talked!) in our sessions and wondered why on earth she wasn't picking up on anything I said. I'm afraid I steamed on because I suppose I've been off my head, desperate. I was confused and frustrated that she barely spoke, month after month, and I recently burst out (not my finest hour) 'can you say something please!' and she responded by saying I was being 'controlling'. When I asked her about this at the next session she changed it around and said she had said that I was 'in control in that situation'. This was very clearly NOT what she had said - I'm feeling gaslighted! And that she is fucking with my head. This is like an abusive relationship ffs.

I asked her why she says barely anything - she said she has said a lot. I don't know what she can possibly mean: the very rare times she does speak, she repeats a mantra, like a robot: 'I am here for you to change' (She speaks in soundbites, weird phrases she repeats - phrases that don't make any sense: when I ask her what she means, or to repeat something she has said, she refuses [am I being trained?]. I can't repeat her phrases because I don't remember them, mainly because they make no sense at all to me, they're like a different language/lexicon. It feels cultish.) On the very rare occasions when she does answer my questions she takes an age before answering - l-o-n-g silence (perhaps she does that to shake me off but I stay silent and wait for her answer. I have to wait a very long time). She makes no reference to the vast majority of what I have said - except to make (short, pithy) observations now and again that are very negative (about me). She has never said anything even vaguely positive, encouraging etc. In answer to this she says her opinions are not relevant and 'don't belong here'. When I ask her what does 'belong here' she refuses to answer.

I eventually became angry and attacking re: her refusal to answer any of my questions; her inaccurate recall of what I or she had said (which every time casts me in a negative light). She immediately responded by saying that she isn't meeting my needs and that I should see another therapist; that I made her feel like a 'crap therapist' and that she is 'not here to be attacked'. I am astounded by this - of course a therapist is potentially going to be attacked at some stage by a client, surely?? Not physically - of course! - but verbally. At one point my actual words were 'you are full of shit'. Not great of me, of course, but that's the sort of thing that gets said, surely.

I have never experienced anything like this. Can anyone shed any light on this? I am on a low income and this is all I can afford. Perhaps we are missing one another by a mile but some of this is surely not right?

Is it unlimited counselling though?

She may be pushing you to talk about an end date as you think you've a lot more work to do and there's only a limited time left.

When I've worked for agencies they only allow a certain amount of sessions - 6/12/a year /and in one place 2 years

I would be aware how long the sessions last and checked that out at the start. It was the first thing that was established, that the space was unlimited, which was a huge relief to me at the time.

I felt I had started to properly work, after a whole year of her saying precisely zero (moreorless, apart from incessant statements that made no sense to me). I realise I did something similar with my kids when they were teenagers ie I wouldn't let them use abusive speech towards me ie I immediately shut them down (I'd had a lot of therapy!). Did I frustrate them? But is it appropriate to be your kids' therapist? Perhaps I'll start a thread about that somewhere re: Should you let your kids use abusive speech towards you, regardless what they are going through?

If you do go back then I would be recording the sessions. I wouldn't ask her or tell her, but I'd want it to check my own memory when spending that length of time with someone and which invariably results in my feeling confused or upset, and who refused to explain.

I got a couple of years' worth of reduced price sessions through a church near me. I'm not a church person, had never been inside that church before or since, but I will always love the counsellor I had. Perhaps there's something like that near you.

I have just looked at the notes I wrote - a tiny amount. She had said there were some things we wouldn't discuss, I said 'what things?' she said 'I couldn't possibly say'. And then refused to say any more. This exchange made no sense to me at all.

Perhaps she meant (I think?) that there are some things I won't discuss (bad me) - therefore she couldn't possibly say what those things are. In amazement, I suspect her intransigence comes from an exchange in the recent 'argument' sessions where she asked me a stupid/nonsensical q (imo) and I said I couldn't be bothered to answer - I was angry. This typifies the exchanges ie she talks in riddles and then refuses to explain or discuss when I am confused or ask for clarification. She is obstructive, obtuse, opaque. This represents a tiny exchange but typifies the rubbish flavour of the whole thing.

(sorry to go on but it is giving me some clarity - at last!)

She sounds like she is not very confident or experienced as a therapist. Has she much experience in working with people with your problem? What are her qualifications, training, association membership...? I've met some right dingbats who have done a few days 'training' and think they are Freud. (I was a therapist, so met them professionally).

It is helpful to listen, but a fallacy that a good therapist just allows a client to ramble on and on in a stream of consciousness. She ought to be asking you questions based on what you say - how did that make you feel and why, what did you want to do then, what do you want to do how...?

She is there to help you work through your issues, to feel better about yourself and your life/situation/future. What is your desired outcome of your sessions - has she asked you, and of she has, does she refer to this or review it?

No she hasn't done any of those things. I don't know what she is doing (and have asked as much, repeatedly). There seems to be no structure at all. What does seem to be the case is that she has to be top dog; that she is somehow on the back foot unless she is in control (of everything). Perhaps she expects me, as a matter of course, to entrust myself to the/her process?

re: she didn't like me asking what experience she has, her qualifications. She fudged it and steered the convo away; I brought it back. I have asked her a number of times what therapy model she is following - she very clearly doesn't like me asking and says she has already told me (i can't remember it). She didn't like me referring to any bad experiences I have had with therapists, or some of the therapists I have had the great misfortune to meet dealt with professionally.

I wouldn't be subjecting myself to the process if I thought all therapists were a crock of shite, but it takes time to trust a therapist and some therapists have been awful (eg a bereavement therapist who refused to apologise for the 10 minutes' late start to the session and demanded if I had seen the huge queue outside; the therapist who told me don't worry, you're attractive, you'll get a man in no time; the one who, after working with her for two years, said she was leaving to work with romanian orphans and we had to cut our work short, giving me 2 weeks - I walked into a cupboard I was so shocked, mistaking it for the - well-known after 2 years - door).

Who monitors these people? How, and to whom, are they accountable? as the pp said, if you try to make a complaint they wrap you up in therapeutic twine.

It's very easy to make a complaint. You can do this via the BACP - check on their website that she is a member under the 'find a therapist' link.

I can't link it for you as I'm on my phone

If she's already told you what sort of therapist she is then she's being needlessly secretive in not telling you again.

Are your sessions recorded by the organisation? A friend training as a counsellor was always filmed while she was still under supervision even though it was a little local charity with no funding. She and her supervisor would go through the sessions on film so that my friend could learn properly. I assumed all counsellors/therapists did that anyway qualified or not, as if there are problems they need advice or ideas on, then it's all there. Also, a good record should there be complaints.

I am shocked by this woman. She sounds like she's making it up as she goes along.

www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists/ link to BACP find a therapist, Laurie spoke of.

I genuinely went there with an open (broken) heart. I'm ranting on here because I'm FINALLY recognising the shit she is peddling, and the shit I've been subjected to through various orgs; and I am angry, yes. I've not been angry, I've been open and trusting - or as open and trusting as one can be until real trust is developed. I gave it a year!

As for crap therapists, most of these were therapists I could afford when funds were tight. The bereavement therapist was through Cruise, I saw a counsellor through my GP (terrible), etc. The therapist who took off to romania to look after orphans was a private therapist and I paid the going rate. I was deeply shocked when she took off like that - and possibly my volcanic anger is partly that, too, which has never been addressed.

Despite all, it is helping me a lot to be angry about this. I have not before been angry, but internalised what I now think was very poor practise.

Cruise counsellors are often trainees (or that's my understanding, anyway). I've heard good things but also some shocking stories.

I wasn't filmed as part of my training so I wouldn't say it's commonplace/standard (unless the requirements have changed significantly).

You can only complain to BACP if she's a member, but they will look into it if she is. That link for finding a therapist is good - but not all good therapists are on there (I'm not, because I'm a bit resentful of having to pay an extra £70 on top of my membership fees for the privilege!) although it's a good place to start - you have to not only be a member but also accredited (i.e. show a certain level of both experience and training). I've always been upfront with clients about my level of training - I don't list every course I've done, but I do put my diploma on the 'information about me' sheet I give to every client at the start of a relationship. I also put that my training is psychodynamic (but that I draw from other schools of thought, as the client needs it). It's literally there in black and white.

The very general rule of thumb for ending is to take half as long to end as you've already spent in therapy - not practical or perhaps necessary if you've been going years, but two weeks' warning in an established therapeutic relationship is definitely unethical.

How would you feel about giving her a list of the issues that you feel are problems (as well as giving this list to her supervisor)? If she's not prepared to discuss them properly (which it doesn't sound like she is) then don't waste any more of your time.

If she has a business card, website, or marketing bumf then her qualifications will be on there. To get professional insurance she will need to be a member of a recognised association, and to be a member she will have to have a minimum level of training and usually be doing some form of CDP.

When you first see a therapist you should be talked through your issues and what you hope to get out of therapy. This needs to be reviewed regularly - sometimes even on a session by session basis.

I would never see anyone who wasn't recommended. Sometimes the therapy/therapist just isn't a good fit for the client or their issue. If a therapist feels that they can't help you (for whatever reason) it is a professional curtesy to refer you on to a trusted colleague.

If anyone is looking for a therapist, please please check them out first. Start with their qualifications and memberships - and check these out yourself. Don't take on trust some bullpoo merchant with a confident attitude and a shiny office.

The worst ones I have met have been those in plush offices in good postcodes or egotistical hobby housewives who have done 'a little course when the kids were at school' and set themselves up as little gods (and trust me, a little knowledge and a large ego is a very very dangerous thing).

Don't be afraid to ask them and ask for references. They won't be offended or peg you as paranoid. I would always wave my credentials in clients faces and refer them to websites to check out my approach, and if I felt I couldn't help I would do what I could in the meantime before getting them details of colleagues. I would never ever attempt to treat anyone I wasn't confident I could help - you have to be realistic and clients appreciated my brutal honesty. If I couldn't help I would explain why but point them in the right direction. Sometimes I would spend ages just explaining different therapies or treatments they could try.

Check length or of practice and how many patients they see - just because someone is qualified doesn't make them a decent therapist. You learn very much on the job, and some people are just really bad at being a therapist. Most therapists will have areas of specialisation and 'no go' areas that they don't feel confident in/zone touch with a barge pole for whatever reason.

Sometimes you have to go with what you can afford - I have not been able to work, I was desperate and had waited a long time, I was climbing the walls. I kind of crashed into the work and I was aware of that - but wondered why she didn't stop me/manage it etc. She had a thousand hooks she could have worked on but she didn't pick up any of them. At one point I asked for - insisted - a summary of what I had presented (to get her to engage at least!), and she listed a number of things.. but missed out the colossal issue that had sent me into therapy/climbing the walls. I couldn't compute this - how could she miss it out? It was what I was there for. I said 'how could you miss that out?' and she refused to reply.

I am going on, as much to work this out for myself. Thanks for the excellent points. I feel ashamed that I didn't protect myself.

Don't be ashamed Springy, you were in major distress and were seeking help from someone who should have been transparent with you but wasn't. This can easily just push one into a state where it becomes harder and harder to analyse what is going on, but meanwhile one is letting off a certain amount of steam and working things out alone simply by talking. So the illusion for a long time can be that one is feeling better/managing better, when no real progress is being made. The last thing that one expects is to have to protect oneself from a therapist, and despite your own bad experiences, I imagine that you were a) desperate enough and b) retained enough hope, that you hung on.

Congratulate yourself that you are now seeing things clearly enough to feel frustrated by it that you posted.

I hope you find a betterr therapist quickly, or this woman wakes up and starts doing her actual job properly. Do record the sessions if you can. Reality check and aide memoire.

Thank you Jux. That is a great help.

I am still within the 24hrs to cancel the session (without being charged). I want to cancel it - and any further sessions - and to ask contact details of her supervisor in order to make some 'observations' - then possibly to go on to BACP in order to make some 'observations' It is good to say one's piece - which is what it would be about, not necessarily 'justice'. The last session was so appalling, the confusion and pressure I felt so great, that I can't see any point in flogging a dead horse - she has proved, over and above, that she is not equal to the task. re I don't think she will 'wake up' because there is nothing there to wake up or draw on. She is, indeed, a crap therapist. Or at least her training is possibly years too short. Because, despite all, I do think she is a kind person, but deeply misinformed.

(Im sounding snooty there!)

You trusted here and needed her at the time. You haven't been a mug - you have just given her far longer than you ought for her to prove herself. She sounds as if she is floundering with the therapy.

You have woken up to the fact that she is not the one for you - she may well be a fine therapist with an excellent bedside manner but she is a wrong fit for you entirely.

tell her that she has damaged you much more than helped you

I would be inclined to put that in a note rather than face to face. 'I feel that...', 'I am disappointed in you because...', 'I hoped to get xxx out of our sessions, but after investing xxx months and £xxx, I feel that I have taken steps backwards in my treatment, even though I have fully engaged in it'...

She will only throw it back on the OP if she says anything to her in person, and make it her fault for being a 'uncooperative' patient. A therapist will never admit that they got it wrong. Arrogant bunch...

Not all of them, nicename, some yes (stiffly defending friend who is very good therapist!).

I was a therapist!

There are a load of reasons why a client/therapist relationship doesn't work out. You wouldn't tell a client that you are a crap therapist, andthat's why the therapy didn't work - if you were worth your salt, you would have realised fairly quickly that things weren't going to go well and refer them on. You would explain that maybe it wasn't the therapy for them, the time wasn't right, maybe they would be more comfortable with a man/woman, etc.

Sometimes you just need to break the relationship if you feel that the client is lying to you, has underlying medical problems that the won't address, come in for A and end up with a whole pandoras box of issues that you have already outlined clearly that you will not treat (for whatever reason - I never treated people with drugs issues for several practical reasons) or the just client scares you for some reason and you either need to keep the door open to reception or have 'a colleague in training sitting in to observe'.

Most therapists work bloody hard and try their bet to help people out, but I have met some serious egos and people with a bit of a God complex, who seem to think that they have some insight into peoples minds and are a tad arrogant.

After a full day training/treating I would have a thumping headache and need to run miles to unwind to get rid of the adrenalin.

Funny you should mention that about fear because I sometimes felt fear in her, that she was afraid of me. I also sometimes felt she was extremely vulnerable, couldn't cope and was inwardly panicking. Just the impression I got and, of course, impossible to know if that was accurate or not, or my stuff of course. I wasn't there to work out how she was feeling! I assumed she would do something about it if she felt she was out of her depth - no, I trusted her to be professional and to do something about it etc if she needed to.

Anyway, I'm struggling tbh. The world feels a bit tilted.

Spring, this is just an observation, but are you feeling OK ? Your posts appear to be full of confused thoughts (naturally), and I can't quite make sense of what you are saying.

Do you think it might help you to call some-one, or phone the Samaritans for a chat ? You say 'things feel titled', and I can feel that from your posts. Maybe take a few deep breaths, and reach out to some-one you trust right now?

Re: The therapy. You are within your rights to end at any time, and find a more beneficial relationship, that is healthier for you. It sounds as though you are in quite a confused state right now, and that this is not helping.

I hope this helps, and that you find some clarity.