Making decisions

[Khimaira]

How do you go about making serious decisions? Toss a coin, roll a dice, rational/emotional, make a list (but then how do you decide which points carry more weight?) or what? My thoughts keep running in circles, I know I need to make a decision soon, but I'm getting nowhere except constantly thinking about it.

I need to decide, whilst I'm not feeling suicidal, if killing myself would be the best thing for my family. Obviously, as there is such a stigma attached to it, it would be better if it could be passed off as an accident. I'm pretty sure I have that covered, albeit a stupid accident. I know it would be better for my children if I am not an influence in their lives, and the oldest is getting to an age where I would be remembered so it would be better to do it within the next few months. My DH would then be free to find someone he deserves and who could take care of the children far better than I ever could. Rationally, the answer is clear, but then the selfish, cowardly side kicks in. I don't want to leave my children even though I know it would be the best thing for them. I should have done it a long time ago. I can't think of a single other reason against it apart from my selfishness. But if I were to leave them a letter to be opened "in the event of my death" would it look too suspicious? I need to make a final decision and sort all the details out so when I do get suicidal again I know exactly what to do.

My only thinking was that what point is insurance if you are not around to use it? Granted I do not understand health insurance and do not use it. But I have had to pay privately for counselling ( and stopped when not able to). And I guess in the UK people are not taken from their children or vica versa for mental health issues therefore they seek help - and especially if it is private help then national agencies rarely know.

But as you told me my logic is flawed so I can say nothing of any use and know when I am in the wrong and cease to comment from then on. Unhelpful people to a poster are not a support on MH threads I am aware therefore I do not wish to b a poster that is not on the same wavelength ( as I cannot change and do not wish to who I am or what I think) - and when people point out my comments are flawed ( eg my logic makes no sense) I take the hint and disappear!! I am not upset at all but will not waste time continuing on a thread when I made aware I have nothing to add and certainly when I may cause more problems to a poster who is already struggling ( eg talking of killing themselves), I do not wish to cause any problems.

So no offence taken ( if I was easily offended I would not have bothered posting on such a thread) but I do not wish to say things that are wrong to a poster - so I wish you well in whatever decisions you choose.

Didn't want to read and run. I don't have the specialist expertise that you need to deal with this situation. I just want to urge you to get some help and to tell you that there's no way killing yourself will be the best thing for your children or DH. And that there are people out there who can get you through this.

Continuing to talk on here is beneficial, I think, because no one knows you and you can be honest about the way you feel. It sounds as though you don't get any time for yourself in between childcare/housework, and this was a contributing factor with my depression.

What did you like to do before you had children? Anything you could start to do again, even for 10 minutes a day?

Hello Khimaira. How are things going today? Please keep talking to us. It sounds as if you are having a very tough time at the moment, moving to a new country with two small children and nobody there to support you. It would be a daunting prospect for anybody, but if you have mental health problems at the moment too, I can understand that everything must seem too much.

Please stay strong, not just for your children but for yourself too. You sound like a really good mum to me, a really good mum who is going through a hard time. Your DC's won't be harmed by too much tv for a little while. We all do it, and kids are tough.

A little while ago, I felt the same way that you do. I thought I was useless and that my DCs would be better off without me. I tried to end it all but luckily, very luckily, I failed. Now that I can see things a little more clearly, I can see that it would have hurt them terribly, and that, for all my faults, they love me and they want their DM here with them, not somebody else. And I have had some wonderful times with them since then that I am so grateful for.

The good thing is that you have started this thread, so perhaps part of you does want to live. Please hang on to that part of you. Can you tell us what country you are in now? Perhaps somebody on MN will know of some support organisation there that can help you. Or can you contact your old counsellor yourself? I am very sorry to hear you had such a terrible experience at the doctor's. You should never have been treated like that. But with some support and some proper help, you can get well again.

I wish I could say or do more to help you, but I'm sending you love and hugs ((( ))) Please keep talking to us.

I'm exhausted. I don't know how much longer I can keep it up for, it seems to be harder and harder. We all went for a walk, I took loads of photos and kept thinking this is the last time I'll be doing this with you whilst keeping up the happy ideal and laughing at what they were doing. Neither DC wanted anything to do with me, both just wanted DH.

I don't know that I did anything before I had children, just try to get through the day, auto pilot fashion. A couple of posters have mentioned depression, but I thought this is only if you have a change in how you are. This is just what I am, so I don't think I can be depressed. I was in contact with my old counsellor, but I don't want to be too annoying. He is very busy and so I sent him an email to say I was going to contact him for a while. I can't go back on that can I? And I know he is away visiting family for Christmas. I've spoken to him a fair bit this year, but it makes it harder to keep the appearance that I'm coping with the children etc. everything is crumbling and I don't know how to keep it together any more. I should never have had children. I'm such a pathetic piece of shit who can't even look after her own children properly. I need some sleep but I know I will just wake up having seen, well, I won't say exactly, but they get injured or killed in my dreams :( and it's always my fault. Don't want to live but too cowardly and selfish to do anything about it.

You can contact your counsellor again, who did he work for? you can contact them - you are in crisis. Please tell your DH how you are feeling. Has something happened to you to make you feel like this? None of us on here can tell you what is wrong with you, we are not qualified to do that. This is why you need help - may i ask what country you are in, feel free to pm me if you don't want to put it on the board.

Those dreams are horrible, ive had them - but they are not real, they are just a representation of the turmoil in your head. I truly believe medication of some sort will help you. I am on medication, there is no shame in it and it works.

And say what? He's retired now, and is away for Christmas. What do you mean in crisis? I can't tell DH, I don't want him to be angry with me.

Please Khimaira keep talking to us. Tell us how we can help. What country are you in? You have said enough to make me believe that a small part of you wants to live. Your children need you, you need to be with your children. So now you need to work to sort it all out.
YOU ARE NOT A PIECE OF SHIT, YOU ARE A PERSON TRYING TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN. Just like all of us.
Maybe your DC are picking up on on your feelings, maybe you are not reading them as you would if you were well. It doesn't matter, they know you love them. If DH is angry, then tell him we all understand and support you. He should not be angry because you are ill. Would he be angry if you had a broken leg? This is the same, it's just a different part of you that is broken. No shame in that. It happened to me. It happened to other people on this thread. If your counsellor is retired now, I'm sure he will refer you to someone he trusts. He will not abandon you. Stop telling him everything is ok. Tell him how you feel. Tell him you need help. We are here to love and support you, but you must work hard too, to find the help you need. Please don't give up. Keep talking to us. Sending love & hugs ((( )))

You tell him you are trying to weigh up the pros and cons of killing yourself, he will put you in touch with someone who can help you. The crisis is just that.

I don't know if your DH is supportive or not, but i am pretty sure that my DP would react angrily too, because its such a difficult thing to understand and its scary.

Its christmas in three days time, I am sure you can find some small amount of joy in watching your children on christmas day. Trivial in the scheme of thngs but you know what, its the little things that make life worth living.

Would he be angry if I've broken a leg? Probably. Especially if it was the result of me doing something silly. He tends to get angry if I'm ill so I try not to let him know how ill I am because it's easier that way. I think it's probably because it's inconvenient that way. Although last time I had a d&v bug he did offer to help look after the children (probably out of guilt from the previous time when I suspect MIL had a go at him!)

I do just want to give up. I'm tired, I've no fight left. It's such an effort to be cheerful about Christmas. I only manage flashes of it. The children will be happy to get some presents, but they don't really get it. I don't know if that's my fault or they're too young. The oldest will probably refuse to open more than one present - that's what happened on his birthday, took more than a week to persuade him to open everything! DH wants them to help cook the meal. It will be a nightmare, it's a nice idea but I don't think he realises what the reality of their help is. He already gets angry, shouts then walks off if they try and help sweep the floor.

I need to try and sleep, I wonder if Santa can bring a full nights sleep! I have to sort the shopping tomorrow and I can barely think straight. I forgot to make dinner last night (baked biscuits instead, I knew there was something I had to cook, but couldn't remember what ) so we ended up eating cheese on toast. Oops Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Oh, I did smile when you said about your DS not wanting to open more than one present :) My DD can be a bit weird about things - she still has all her easter eggs from this year, she wont eat them (they are too beautiful ) I look at them longingly!

I am so with you on the "help" bugger that - hopefully he will dismiss that as a bad idea once they start getting in the way and usher them off to watch TV. How old are they? can you think about little jobs they can do that could be done at the table? So scraping carrots - can get away with blunt knife and will take a while, doing the sprouts? they can take the outer leaves off while DH cuts the cross in the bottom of them (double bonus of keeping him out of the way!) Then he can get them to help lay the table.

I find shopping so incredibly stressful - i have an anxiety disorder and grocery shopping is a real trigger - i am often minutes away from meltdown in the supermarket. Did get a few bits the other day but found it too much so have that particular joy to endure tonight - I am going to make a list and hope that keeps the anxiety away. Otherwise i stress about do we REALLY need those crisps or whatever. So hoping list making is the way forward.

Biscuits sound better than dinner anyway - we had beans on toast last night. You sound like a really good mum - i never bake, its on my list of things i need to do more of.

You do seem a little bit more positive today, although it probably doesn't seem that way. I think you would fit in on the support thread really well. here is the link Have a look in, its called "the village" because we were talking about how its a place just for "us" by us i mean all the lovely ladies on there who need support and give it too. Its a long running thread - its the 8th one now and it helped me when i was at rock bottom and there were ladies on there who were in an even worse place. You don't have to say anything on the thread but you would be more than welcome if you wanted too, there is only one rule - no judging but then no one on there does that.

Enforced cheer is over rated - go with the flow - break out the christmas sherry xx

Thanks for the reply. I hope your shopping wasn't too bad. Our trip was a nightmare, think milk spilt all over the shop floor, children running in different directions, DH throwing a fit and walking out with the children and throwing a "don't forget we'll make this cake, bread and this desert as well." Me not knowing the ingredients and when I texted to ask he said not sure. Plus sending me messages asking me how long I was going to be etc. I'm surprised I only forgot one thing (an after thought of his, not on my list!)

I rarely bake, but I was fed up of the others eating desert and there being nothing for me. And Christmas seems wrong without biscuits! The children are 1 and 4 (but doesn't seem to be able to process instructions...) so getting them to do something useful is very unlikely to happen. DH is foreign, refuses the traditional English meal so there will be no turkey for us. I had a look at the thread you linked, I don't know I would have anything to say. There's loads of people who all seem to know each other.

You would be made welcome - there are actually lots of new faces on the thread and a couple of the latest ones I haven't interacted with at all. My shopping was shite too :) DP was grumpy because he had been working all day and DD was trying to help with her list Glad i have done that - have only a few last minute presesnts to get tomorrow - the weather is atrocious, gale force winds and rain, makes the shopping more of a chore. What will you be having for christmas dinner?

Thinking of you today - are you ahead in time from the UK or behind? Have a lovely Christmas - after that, one day at a time - you can do this xxx

We had spinach pie. Today has been an utter disaster from start to finish. The kids for once actually slept through, but DH woke at 5 and decided to come and wake me up... 5 minutes later DC2 woke and wanted her milk. DH got angry because I shouldn't still be feeding her (I know, but its the only way to keep her quiet if she wakes up at night and I daren't let her wake him) so he stormed off and went and played computer games for a couple of hours. Letf me to get the kids up, breakfast, dressed, and ready to go out. We went out which was quite nice, then lunch when we got back. I managed to get them both to sleep at the same time and did some of a jigsaw puzzle that DC1 wanted, (it's far, far too hard for him). DH played on the computer for another couple of hours then decided to go running. Kids woke. Then he said he would take them out for a walk so I could sort the tree out and put the presents under it. So he told them to get ready. DC2 put her hat on. Then he refused to take them out because they weren't ready and so said that I'd ruined the surprise (I was at this point cooking dinner, just finished tidying toys etc away). They started chasing each other around, through the kitchen whilst I was trying to cook and DS wanted a drink. Because I told him to wait DH told him that I didn't want to have anything to do with him because I was being grumpy. I suggested they go and play in DC1's room and quickly sorted the tree and presents.

I then go and get them and they get all excited at the presents, which DH tells them that Father Christmas brought them. So, that's the stocking I sorted totally wasted then :( Presents opened, crazy children, DH not speaking to me or looking at me. I apologised and he said it's easier to get the children ready to go out when there are two of us (funny he never helps me usually...) and that the decent thing to have done was get them ready whilst he was showering after his run.

Had dinner by candle light, which the children loved! Then more presents after dinner. I suggested when DC2 was falling asleep that we did bath and bed and he said that yes, bathing them is one of those jobs which is easier with two people. DC2 didn't want to leave her toys so DH said he was going to do something else so I was left to do toilet and bath of both of them myself and he came in to get DC2 out, wouldn't help to brush her teeth wouldn't say good night to her. then left DC1 alone in the bath because he said no to getting out and told him he could sort himself out. (he has just turned 4) So I ended up doing that as well by myself. Took a while to get him off to sleep and DH has just gone to bed with a terse good night. So, clearly still angry with me for not getting them dressed.

Sorry, that was a bit long. I'm tired but need to clean before I go to bed. Christmas this year is quite frankly rubbish. I'm dreading tomorrow. He had a go at me for taking photos of the children as "clearly that's more important than enjoying yourself." Hope you managed to get all your presents and have a nice day tomorrow.

It sounds to me that you did brilliantly all day. Coping with the ups & downs of 3 different people and still doing cleaning & stuff at the end of it! I know it probably doesn't feel like it but you achieved a huge amount. And I'm sorry I know it's not my place to say it but your DH sounds a total a**e! If you had a little bit more help & understanding from him instead of being continually undermined, maybe you'd feel an awful lot better.

I hate shopping with the DCs. When my eldest was the same as as your DC, we were on holiday in France & she threw a wobbly, ran into the nearest shop, which was one of those very posh chemist/beauticians. All glass shelves & bottles. Well, she picked up the nearest bottle of perfume & threw it very dramatically onto the (tiled) floor. Huge crash, french people muttering about these foreigners who can't control their kids, and me wishing the ground would swallow me up! but we survived, dd is a lot older now and a lovely girl. I'm v proud of her. And one day you'll look back on these days (it's tough looking after 2 under 5's every day) and you'll see that your dcs have grown up into lovely people that you are proud to take out. We all try to have perfect days like in the magazines & we don't cope, but we just do the best we can. And that is good enough, honest.

I think you mentioned before that your DMIL gave your DH a talking to when you were ill with s&d. Is she someone you can talk to, and receive some support from? Does she live close enough to help with the DCs?

Good luck with tomorrow. Christmas is difficult when the dcs are small - it's all or nothing for them isn't it? not interested in all the effort you've made or totally over excited! But try & be kind to yourself & give yourself credit for all you've achieved so far. I hang on to something a child psychologist (I forgot his name) once said: we all try to be perfect but it's enough to be a 'good enough' mum. And you're more than 'good enough'

I tried once to kill myself and the anger my family went through that I would do that was shocking. I never understood at the time because I thought it was the only solution to the pain.

When my granddad attempted several times years later I got it, no matter how much life hurts, not living hurts everyone more. My children are now my protective factor against suicidal thinking, which I experience a lot, and I have learned a lot about my mental health issues, enough to understand that any period of this type of thinking will end and how to protect myself with a crisis plan.

I hope you are able to find some support, keep posting and taking about things, don't make any permanent decisions while you feel this way because you need to talk to a doctor and understand that suicidal thinking is a part of an illness that can improve with treatment and time. X

Hi Khimaira

Firstly, I remember your descriptions of your H from the last thread, and he definitely doesn't deserve you. Or the kids.

It's horrendous that you were treated like that by the NHS. I've been to my doctor twice now with suicidal feelings and been listened to and helped. It's really not standard practice.

I think you should call your old counsellor too, as soon as you can get hold of him. He sounded genuinely concerned before, I think he'd want to help.

And your DCs would NOT be better without you. Who do they want in the night? Who do they cry for when they fall
over? Not your H.

Just wanted to say thanks for the replies. I've not got time to answer now. BIL and gf are coming for lunch, I need to tidy, clean, bake a cake and prepare half of lunch... (DH has been up since 530 playing on the computer and done nothing. He had promised to go to the bakery, so I have just sent him out in the rain!) I'm just trying to get through and not think to much. DC are loving all the presents :)

Glad you're still here

So pleased to read your post. Your new years resolution should be to stand up to your dh. He is being a shit parent. We are all behind you. You have done amazingly well and made a lovely christmas for your children x

I'm still here... Annoyed that on Christmas Day DH was up from 530 but didn't go to DC2 when she cried or intercept DC1 so I still had an early start. We had a lazy morning, DC watching their new DVDs and then went for a walk. Yesterday was a nightmare resulting in me almost crying over an apple pie!
BIL and gf were due for lunch. I made a cake, prepared half the main course and started to clean the bathrooms. This was a mistake because I have my priorities wrong, I should have been tidying (I'd personally rather a clean bathroom if visiting someone rather than all the toys tidied away...) and I have no common sense and if I'd wanted to clean I should have done it on Christmas Day and not messed around on the computer.
After they'd gone, I offered to make an apple pie. Now there are two recipes in this household - mine, the English version and his, the yucky one. But as he'd mentioned the other week when he came home from work that he could smell one cooking and it smelt so nice and was a disappointment he knew it wasn't from our flat and as it was Christmas I thought I'd make him his one. The first thing he said when he saw it was that the apples weren't geometric enough . Then that it wasn't cooked enough. Put it back in oven. Then the apples were starting to burn (because they weren't geometric enough) and I should have known it would never work like that. Then he said the reason why it was such a bad pie was because it was obviously made with bad will. So when DC1 asked me for seconds I told him to eat it whilst he could because I was never going to make another one. Which apparently was a stupid thing to say and a total overreaction.
He did apologise an hour or so later and said I should take it as a compliment that he thought I'd deliberately ruined it because that means I can bake well. Me = confused. As far as I understand it must be I edible because it didn't look like his parents version. I threw it.
I'm just glad Christmas is over. We took the kids out today which was a nice idea in theory, utter disaster in practice!

MIL does visit regularly, but she will rarely speak to DH, she worships him so it has to really annoy her that she says something. And I don't want to out her in an awkward position. To be honest, it's not often a help when she visits! And 100red I'm petrified DC1 will do that, he could probably tip a shelf if he felt like it...

I'm only thinking of it a few times a day now, not constantly. Will see what the New Year looks like. Hope you've all had a pleasant few days. Thank you for listening.

Honey, you do know the reason you are in such a bad way is because of your husband don't you? Is there any way you could take the children, and leave? He sounds like a horrible bully :( The apples weren't geometric enough? he is mad! Either that or he is using it as a stick with which to beat you with - i rather think its the latter. Do you have family back home who could help you? Is the country you live in a patriachal society?

So glad you are still here Khimaira. And thinking of it less, that's good. And looking towards the New Year. Every day you get through is a good day.

LEM's right, you know. Your DH uses a lot of bullying behaviour towards you. The apples weren't geometric enough? FFS, they're apples!

You know, a lot of guys feel that to be successful men they have to control everything. But they find they can't control everything at work, they can't control tiny children who don't follow their 'rules', they can't control bad weather, traffic jams, a million other daily annoyances. But - guess what! If they bully and belittle and demean their wives enough, they can control THEM. And their poor wives end up thinking that it's all their own fault & they don't deserve any better.

Maybe your DH learned the behaviour from his parents' model when he was growing up, maybe it comes out of his own feelings of inadequacy, who knows? And who cares? Wherever it comes from, he should not take it out on you. He's bullying and manipulating you to make himself feel better, and that's just wrong.

I'm not a professional, I'm just a mum like you trying to do the best I can every day. I can't say where your depression comes from or whether it is because of him, but I am sure that his critical behaviour and lack of support & understanding are making you feel a lot worse.

I know that when you're feeling low it's very hard to be objective, but please try and take a step back and look at your relationship as if you were someone else looking in. What would you think if your BIL treated your sister like this? Or if your friend's husband was so critical when she had gone to such trouble to make his favourite apple pie? I'm sure you'd feel angry on their behalf. It's ok to be angry for yourself too. And sometimes it's better to show that anger than to bottle it all up and turn it in on yourself.

And please try not to worry about DS doing what my DD in that posh shop. I was mortified at the time but the point is, I survived, she has grown out of throwing tantrums, and I've got a great story to tell when she brings a prospective boyfriend home ;) But seriously, these things happen and they seem dreadful at the time, especially when we're already feeling low and without confidence, but we do get over them. And your DS will soon be older and better able to express himself in other, less embarrassing, ways.

I don't know. I tend to overreact to things and lose all sense of proportion so it's hard for me to say. I feel like I'm going crazy sometimes. I mean, getting upset over a pie is stupid. I don't know I'd be angry, probably just make a few comments about men (from here)! I'm not sure he is controlling really. He does get annoyed when the DC don't do what he wants, but isn't that normal?

We had a fairly uneventful shopping trip today, DC2 slept in the carrier, DC1 didn't break anything this time, he did climb a tower of stacked water bottles much to the amusement of two old ladies "look I'm in a house mummy!" And he did climb into a large wicker basket display stand and pull the lid over himself and peek out at people... And run away several times... And manage to balance 5 cartons of cream in a stack before I sent DH to stop him...

We have DHs friends over tomorrow, so another stressful morning of cleaning and cooking. Which means I need sleep.