I suffer from horrible, terrifying thoughts and they have ruined my life.......

[SickOfBeingSoScared]

The thoughts are that I may lose control, go into some psychotic state and kill my children (no one else just the DCs, not DH surprisingly). There I wrote it and it is horrifying to see it in print.

Of course, I do NOT wish to harm my DCs in any way and that is why these thoughts terrify the hell out of me. I am permanently in a state of terror with all the usual panic attack symptoms and I absolutely HATE being alone with my DCs which I am a lot of the time when DH is at work. My day starts with an enormous sense of fear as I know that DH will soon go off to work and I will be alone with the DCs. The older ones are at school and I rush to get out of the house with them in the morning so I can get them safely to school and 'away from me'. I have a toddler though and as soon as we get back home, I am in constant terror that I may go mad and the fact that I cannot leave him alone on the house as he may hurt himself. I start to feel like I might go mad and may have to run outside to 'protect him from me'. I have an 'escape plan' hatched whereby I will lock him in the house and run outside and call the police to get him if I think I may be close to turning 'psychotic'. The evenings are better because then my older DCs are home and they can look after the toddler if I feel like I need to run off for their own protection. None of this has ever happened. I get through the days relatively normally but suffer constantly for it.

I have had these thoughts for 6 years now and of course, they have never happened. They have become much worse and constant since I had my youngest. I function very well and do all that I need to. I go out as much as I can as I can forget the thoughts while I am out and about. They come back as soon as I get home. I live each day in absolute terror of something that will probably never happen and I know that but these fucking thoughts will not disappear. I even have suicidal thoughts to kill myself to 'protect my DCs' but then I think 'but I need to be here to look after them and keep them safe and eventually these thoughts may go and I actually don't want to bloody die'! It is bloody crazy!!!! The guilt and shame I feel having these thoughts is tremendous. My self esteem is rock bottom.

Before you shout 'go to a&e', 'see your GP immediately', I have done all that (diagnosed with 'obsessive neurosis or 'OCD') and have also been under my local mental health team and a psychiatrist, had CBT, hypnotherapy and am currently having a further bout of private counselling. ADs made the the thoughts constant whereas before I was only having them occasionally. I spent £100s on several panic programs, read all the books but I am still getting nowhere!!

My mind is soiled and scarred by these thoughts. I am tears and full of terror as I write this. I am a broken down woman compared to how I used to be. My DH is well aware of this and I say to him 'how can you leave me alone with the kids knowing this', but he says he knows I will never harm them, I just have to get 'over it'!

Can anyone offer any advice please?

I think I would find it easier to ignore any other thoughts than these 'homicidal' thoughts. I often wish I was religious so I could have the religious 'blasphemous' ones that are common to OCD. Hell, I would even settle for the 'sexual deviant' thoughts!

Well you aren't going to go psychotic. And you are going to get better. OCD wears off in the end, you know, no one knows why. You just do recover.

Yes, I get you about thinking that if you relax vigilance for a second re the thoughts you suddenly think you have turned into an evil person or something. If you do calm down, guess what, you don't get an instant personality transplant - is that really likely? You're just taking a moment to put the thoughts in their place, ie not allow the little fackers to freak you out.

That case in the US had a lot more to it than just taking a new AD, incidentally, there's no valid comparison with you and your illness. More people take ADs than heart pills or indigestion treatments - they're the most widely used and tested drugs on the planet. A lot of pills have been around for years, including SSRIs.

DO breathing exercises for at least three minutes an hour. Drink loads of water to pee out the adrenaline.

Can you go on holiday at all? 4 kids is a tough deal at the best of times, you could use a break. Maybe go off without the family to some mates.

I've had the religious ones, dear me.

Talking to yourself is fine - everyone does it.

I wonder what the sex ones are??!!?? Does it bear thinking about?! That's cheered me up, rather.

I dont think engaging with the thoughts is quite the same as practising ignoring them iyswim.

It is like the difference between ignoring dust, and swearing at it!

Holiday - I wish. No, I could'nt leave the DC anyway. Have to be here to make sure nothing goes wrong. Completely twisted (and torturous) way of thinking with regards to my need to keep them safe (even worrying when DH takes them out alone) and my fear of ME harming them!

I don't know if this will help but I thought hearing from someone who actually suffers psychosis most of the time and is a mum might actually help. Paranoia is what causes me to attack people and paranoia activates when i feel threatened but a child is incapable of making me feel threatened so my psychosis in 12years has never turned to my children. Sometimes i think all men want to rape my children and will attack any man who comes to the door and accuse him if spying waiting to rape my child but I am pretty ill when that happens. Generally day to day i am just constantly watching people for any sign they may attack my children . But its always directed at men and dp as they are a threat to me does this make sence ? My uncle who is worse than me and spent most of his life in care goes again for people he considered threatening usually people in authority but never a child as they physically are no threat. Psychosis seems so unpredictable but when you live with it daily you understand it. I would offer you to meet up with me so you can see and understand psychosis better but I imagine you would be too nervous too.

You know I have had OCD traits from a very early age especially after my alcoholic father (used to come home wrecked and piss himself in front of us and attack my mother) abandoned us at the age of 6. My harming thoughts have been probably been fuelled by my mother telling me that I was evil and nasty and mental when I was a kid (her way of dealing with her very hard life and I was a prime scapegoat as I was an extremely sensitive child) and that I sleepwalked and would 'kill us all in our beds'. I KNOW all this and I KNOW that there is no evidence to support her theory but it still does not help.

BTW she has recently been told by her GP that she has OCD but has said if anyone finds out from me, she would cut me off! No loss there really.

Oh and i don't just go major psychotic while i have minor psychosis daily it will slowly build up over weeks or months before i am anywhere near losing complete control. Hth

Alexandra there is only one way to make yourself psychotic and that's illegal drugs like lsd.

Oh, blimey, Sickof. Those childhood experiences sound hard. They must make it ten times harder for you to protect your self-esteem in the face of the illness you are fighting. All best wishes.

I think the early years of motherhood are so hard for anyone prone to these sorts of obsessional thoughts because the thoughts find a home exactly where we are most conscientious: you care very much about keeping your children safe, so the obsessionality plays on thoughts of putting them in danger. Those early years are also hard because you are always so damned tired: when we are tired our thinking gets as ragged as our physical strength and we aren't easily able to shrug off obsessionality.

Be kind to yourself. Eat well, get rest where you can. x

Crawling - you ROCK. That's the best post I've ever read on MN, and the cleverest and the most helpful in my humble opinion.

I can't imagine how horrendous this must be and I was so glad to read the post where you were feeling markedly better. It seems to me that rational and irrational thoughts are having a 'battle' in your brain, to put it simply. You have the horrible thoughts, are terrified of them because you know you wouldn't want to do such things in a million years.

Could you write down what your perfect 'normal' day would be like (where your worrying thoughts don't take centre stage), feelings and how you might react to things and what you would be doing in your routine. Picture this in your mind, even write it down and keep referring to it. It's just an idea.

I have irrational thoughts but only fleetingly, probably most people do. Let's face it, our brains have to cope with so much from the outside world. I really really hope you start to feel better soon.

thank you very much corygal.

Crawling Thank you so much, your post has been very helpful to me. 'Psychotic' has such scary connotations to me but you are right, I actually don't understand much about it. You hear about someone going 'psychotic' in the media and doing terrible things so immediately relate it that but the illness covers a much wider spectrum than that as I have just seen from looking it up. The paranoia you detailed is not something I have experienced nor is the loss of contact with reality. Your post has calmed me and humbled me as you are living with something much more debilitating than I am but still took the time to try to help me. .

I must say thanks to all of you have contributed to this thread. I feel much better this evening and it is something I will continuously re-read when the panic strikes again.

Corygal I wish I had you to talk to every time I work myself up into complete panic meltdown, you talk a lot of sense. The adrenaline and all it's effects is an absolute bastard.

I cannot actually imagine having a day without constant dizziness, butterflies in my stomach, heart palps, chest pain, hyperventilation, headaches, vision disturbances and these awful, terrible thoughts. I would trade a lottery win (and we really need one) if I could cut up veg for dinner without unwanted images coming into my head of me chasing my children with the knife and their screams of terror. To look at my kids without the guilt of having this crap in my head. To just feel safe in myself in my own home and relax without constantly mentally 'checking in' to make sure I'm not going mad.

My CBT psychologist told me, after our 12 sessions when I asked for more, that I did not need it, I had to trust myself. My current counsellor says it's all down to my childhood which was traumatic and emotionally abusive together with several traumatic experiences as an adult and that I need to create a feeling of 'safety' in myself which is very true. I am rethinking the ADs and will go back and talk it over again with my GP.

Hi - isn't it a cathartic experience to put all this down in writing? I used to have very mild ocd - right from when I was about 5 - 'If I don't do x then y (bad thing) will happen to z (someone or something that mattered a lot to me).

The healing process happens once you address these thoughts, understand that they're 'real' but not 'physical' (if that makes sense) and that you're not the only person in the world having them.

You can learn coping strategies while they exist, then once you know how to stop your feelings escalating you can gain control and - surprise surprise - the threat diminishes to the point where they cease to dominate your thoughts and may even fade away completely.

Sickof Am checking in. Can't type on laptop now as will wake DD but will respond tomorrow so don't go away. I had this, and it was HELL. The good news is that it can be treated and managed, and I will come and post my own experience tomorrow. Keep going. You're not mad. You're not going to lose control or harm anyone. Hang in there.

Hi again sobss! It seems a great step to make an appointment to see your GP-Also, there is a book which I found really useful called 'The Imp of the Mind' One of the first cases it looks at is a mother who was having awful thoughts about harming her children.and it explains so well the utter horror felt by the mother,but also what is going on in her mind and why it was happening.When my son was a baby I could not make dinner one day as I thought if I turned on the oven,I would put him in it,,,I knew that really that wasn't going to happen,but was ill (sick and so anxious) because of the thoughts that were there...where did they come from, how could I possibly think these awful,terrifying things which came unbidden into my mind?I t was ages before I sought help-I was scared of admitting these things to anyone,scared of taking drugs,scared of getting help and scared of not...but I am well now and want to really reassure you that this will not last forever.Please do go and see the Gp and try another anti anxyolitic or ad xx

sickof im just glad i could help you it sounds like you are in a great deal of pain. If you have any questions about psychosis at any time ill be glad to answer with my experience. hope you feel better soon.

Sickof - thanks so much - you really are a hero to keep on trucking despite this crap. I swear to you it wears off in the end - no one knows how, but it does.

Dearie me, yes, cutting anything up is always a bugger with any sort of OCD. Knives trigger anxiety in everyone (sensible enough) but one's OCD cells take it as an invitation to kick right off...I am clumsy so I always use frozen peas or chopped veg from the shop anyway. Give yourself a break and use those for a bit.

Hahaha to your therapist - you just have to trust yourself. You don't say... You can trust yourself, of course, but it's easier said than done when an illness is making you doubt. But it's only the illness that's causing the doubt, she's right.

You're not going mad. You aren't going to go for anyone. That's just the illness talking. One day you will wake up and think oooh, I haven't had that thought for a couple of days (usually one of the most nauseating ones).

You're not going mad. You aren't going to go for anyone. Try and let go of the thoughts just a little bit - you won't suddenly freak out. Do deep breathing - 3 minutes an hour. Walking helps as well a bit. Look after yourself today.

SickOf you sound just like me in April of this year. I've suffered panic attacks all my life but it seemed to be becoming more and more severe after the birth of my daughter three years ago. I was anxious about everything and felt really burdened down by the responsibility of it all. Toward the end of last year i started to suffer horrifying panic attacks which left me shaking and scared of going outside so I effectively started closing myself away, developing agoraphobia as well as the anxiety. This spurred me to contact my GP who diagnosed PND and Panic Disorder and offered me ADs which I really didn't want and refused. I tried hypnotherapy, St Johns Wort, CBT and mindfulness meditation instead and gradually, very gradually started to feel the tiniest bit more capable over the steadily increasing panic.
Once I felt more in control my anxiety latched onto something else - in this case the idea of suddenly losing control and hurting my daughter. I became so afraid of it I hated to be alone with her and like you, developed a contingency plan in case I became really scared - in this case taking her round to the neighbours house and asking them to look after her or calling the police. I worried about pushing her down stairs, off cliffs, into roads. I could easily visualise myself losing my shit completely and killing myself in order to keep her 'safe'.

Now here's the thing. I have never hurt her and deep down, where the 'old' me existed, I knew I never would. But the terrible thoughts persisted and I would wake up bristling with anxiety. being out was preferable to being at home because in public I relaxed, knowing that if I were to start freaking out someone would step in.

The paradox of this thinking is - as another poster sensibly pointed out earlier - you are feeding the anxiety cycle. You are giving it credence, and perpetuating the feeling, keeping the belief that this outcome is possible. It isn't. Firstly, if you were to lose control to the extent that you were to hurt yourself or others you wouldn't have the foresight to make yourself or your child 'safe'. I was told a story once of a woman who had such a fierce panic attack that she ran screaming from her home, but not before she'd secured all the doors and windows in order that no-one could break in. That isn't loss of control or irrational thinking. You are always there beneath it, as this woman was.

i was also told in CBT that there is no record of anyone suffering a panic attack harming, or allowing to be harmed, anyone else. It's frightening, and the idea that you may be going mad is terrifying, but it is only an idea and ideas can be changed.

In the end I went back to the GP and took the ADs. I'm on Sertaline, 100mg a day which is an 'average' dose. The first month or so was very hard - I also feared that they would tip me over the edge, and felt as though I was clinging onto the tightrope of sanity over a very deep and bottomless chasm. My partner had to take a month off work to look after DD as I confined myself to bed, where I couldn't 'hurt anyone'. My mum had to fly up to look after me on the days when he couldn't be there. I managed, and it was fucking hard, but I am a different person now. I stopped drinking (alcohol and caffiene) and smoking as they all exacerbated my panic. I learnt Yoga and have found it really useful in learning how to relax. The thoughts have become much easier to manage and I now realise that they are a product of my anxiety. CBT helps when used in combination with ADs so please consider going back to your GP to discuss this.

This is just my experience. The closest thing I have to medical training is dancing to the Drum n Bass version of the Casualty theme tune in the 90s at a warehouse party, so please do go and speak to your GP. I too grew up with an alcoholic father and a Grandmother with mental health issues similar to mine. You can leave your past behind, but you will need lots of support. I hope that you can do it!

-Hi again. Same old feeling of dread and fear is back. It seems to build up from when I get up, peaking at around this time of day and slowly getting better as the day comes to an end and DH is home (he gets in between 9-10pm) . Feels like my days are being wasted by feeling like shit everyday .

Thanks HappyHerdwick. I bought 'Imp of the Mind' about 3 years ago but dropped it in the bath soon after getting it (seem to carry self books around with as a safety mechanism) and I shall order it again now you've reminded me. Makes me so frustrated to think of how long I have being living this shit!!

Corygal I too think that the fear of ADs is being perpetuated by the OCD. It's a bloody vicious cycle. I do now think that ADs are my only option to be able to make some headway in this as I seem to keep falling into the same trap. They may be the answer to help me get out. I am SOOO scared of taking them though. One part of me thinks 'fuck it, just take them, if they make you go insane at least it won't be your fault' but the other part of me thinks 'it's too big a risk, better to keep suffering than potentially getting worse and hurting my DC'. It is INSANE!

Busty thank you for sharing. It is good to know that people have been through the same thing and came through it. I need to find the courage that you had and I don't know how to!

I am thinking of asking DH to take a few weeks of work so I can start taking the ADs with him here 24/7 so if he thinks i'm acting strangely he can do something about it. I would still worry about night times though, what if I sleep walk? He has no holiday left and it will be unpaid leave but at the end of the day, we should be able to cope and I can't put a price on what it would mean for me to start getting better and get over that initial fear of the ADs kicking in.

6 years of my life in perpetual hell, jobs lost (was signed off on my last one as I could not cope with feeling dizzy every day, very secure, local government job and because I worried about no one being there to do my job and letting my boss down, I resigned and now I can't find another one and my sickness record is shite!), in financial chaos that I cannot find the right mind to deal with, weight very high and eating mainly refined carbs (4 stone up), very tired (and cannot blame toddler as he sleeps pretty well aside from the odd blip), socially isolated and find it hard to make conversation, 2 home study courses I have paid for that could help me start my own business put away in a box and forgotten. I could go on! But I can't carry on like this, can I.

It sounds really good, really constructive, that you are able to observe patterns in your fear and dread (peaking at this time of day, subsiding i the evening etc.). It suggests that you can to some extent step back and observe the feelings, even while you are in the hell of experiencing them. I wonder if you can push that a little bit further, observing the thoughts, seeing how they conform to the pattern, remembering that they were bad this time yesterday and nothing actually happened, etc.
xx

Ah, OCD or obsessive neurosis is such a horrible companion. I have extremely similar thoughts, my obsession is about things that could harm or accidents, so includes me going psychotic, but also things like car accidents and falling down the stairs etc.

At the height it seems really awful, but I've found that medication really does help a lot and lots of reinforcing CBT, one course might not be enough, I do a lot of self help stuff to work on it.

The suggestion that you might harm your children is really awful, I think that medical people do have to warn us that if they believe anything we say might put ourselves or others at risk they have to share information at every appointment, but that sounds like a really poor reaction from your psychiatrist, you are clearly very upset by these thoughts and have sought help, I don't see where that would warrant risk at all, especially not if they have any understanding of the illness.

And let me tell you this, I've had social services in twice for the kids, at my own request, and been told that I am actually a very good parent, so having all these terrible thoughts does not necessarily make you a bad parent at all! People who worry about their kids generally tend to be the good ones. It's the not worrying that makes them bad.

Anti-psychotics can be prescribed for anxiety btw, it's certainly not a suggestion that you may become psychotic, as you are concerned and I would have hoped that would have been explained to you.

Obviously nobody can make themselves psychotic! What I was trying to suggest, gently, is that the OP should try to do the thing she is scared of doing i.e. lose control. Which sounds terrible, but the whole point is that she will be unable to.

I was just using the OP's words.