What could be different in mental health care, what helps, and what have you found to be useful reading?

[OwFriggingOw]

First off - this is a thread inspired by another thread - not about another thread.

I am a lecturer who teaches mainly MH nursing students, but also Adult, Child and Learning Disability field nurses about MH, and also occasionally medical students. I have no agenda for this thread bar a genuine desire to listen, share ideas, and have an open discussion about what is helpful / less so. I worked in NHS MH for 13 odd years.

In case anyone links the other threads that inspired this thread - I have been comissioned to edit a book about people's experiences (service users and carers / family / friends) within MH services and with MH issues. NONE OF THE POSTS HERE WILL BE USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS BOOK. You have my ABSOLUTE word on that. Similarly, NONE of the posts here will be used in any of my teaching.

My aim in starting this stems from several PM's and several on-thread comments about how this would be useful/ I hope it can be a helpful, supportive and productive meeting place for thoughts and ideas about what people have found helpful with regards MH care / services / support (statutory and non statutory) and what has been less helpful. Most importantly with regards the less helpful - what can be done differently?

And - beacuse I like books - maybe we can share reading ideas :)

Would it be helpful if I shared parts of my long thread from earlier regarding what I see as needed, without any other details from the thread?

Futuredream:

'And you assume posters in mh are "ill"'

I am assuming nothing. I am relying on what people have said themselves.

Alameda, does it ever occur to you that thee are people who have never taken the stop of having a relative sectioned and are worried about it and thanks to the wonder that is Google, reading this and very concerned about the process and about what their relative may encounter once sectioned?

Perry - I read some Jon Kabat Zinn when I was on a course about mindfulness. It was very useful. For anyone who lives in London, the course is run at the London Buddhist Centre in Bethnal Green.

I managed to access a free space on the course, it was 3 hours a week, 8 weeks, and really really useful. If you can't get a free space (I think you need to be resident in Tower Hamlets) then the cost wasn't sky high - maybe £100 or something. Which is a lot, but worth it if you can afford it.

Thosy sound very interesting , thank you Perry and Harret . Is it correct that people with PTSD - or suspected PTSD if they haven't been able to get a diagnosis so far - might be distressed by experoiences during mindfulness therapy ? I have so far avoided it for this reason .Basic question , I know !s

This thread should have consisted of a resource and reading list posted by OW and nothing more.

Sorry for yet more typos . yellowraincoat , that sounds amazingly useful .

future you'd probably be well advised to go to your GP first or talk to the person doing the mindfulness course. I know that it wasn't advised for people who have paranoia/delusions as it might bring on these feelings.

There were around 30 people on my course and 90% of them said it helped them. I learnt a lot.

'No-one is saying any different, math. We are saying that that hasn't always helped us in the past.'

Then you are massively contradicting yourself YR.

Am I indeed? I don't think so, but you know what? I am done talking to you. So, whatever really.

Mathanxiety - I get your concern, but it's patronising as you wouldn't be telling people who talk about their bad experiences of maternity services to stop scaring people. Sometimes it's therapeutic to talk about what we have been through with others who understand.

There is nothing on this thread that's breaking talk guidelines.

And yes, if someone is in crisis they need to contact their GP or go to A and E.

I still don't buy it, I'm afraid. The most triggering things for me when I was in that sort of state were on other sections of this forum. I got flamed from a great height for reacting angrily to someone suggesting that poor weight gain in a breastfed baby might be due to metabolic disorder and by the end of that thread I was in such an extreme state of anxiety and agitation that I did consider ending my own life and I couldn't bear to look at my own child. I didn't even realise I was ill.

The difference here is that if someone posts their fears in this section, someone will suggest how to get help.

What you are suggesting is that all references to negative experiences in mental health should be censored because there is a potential that someone who is ill and lurking could read them. That doesn't make any sense to me because that would mean that no one on the internet anywhere could find any information about mental health services that wasn't wholly positive or access any online support, which would be unhelpful. Is that really what you think?

Funnily enough, I came on this thread to talk about my positive experiences and what made them positive but with all your ranting and invalidation there hasn't been space and now I don't feel comfortable talking about my experiences at all.

It appeals to people to comment on what they've found helpful about MH services, what less so, and what they feel would / would have helped, and to share resources / links etc that have been interesting or useful.

And the vast majority have talked about their positive AND negative experiences, or have got suggestions (many of which are small, achieveable ones) as to what would help.

I get your point Math - - but much as you're arguing that this thread 'could' harm, by preventing someone from seeking help, that could be the case from all manner of threads on MN, and on the internet, not just in MH but those about SS and HV's, for example. Similarly, you don't know who could be reading who finds a link or book to something useful, relevant and helpful, or who sees a type of treatment or therapy they'd not known about, or who sees that there ARE positive experiences, or who gets hops from people who are posting about.

Or who gets hope from people who are posting about their recovery.

I think math does raise really strong points
I don't think she's trying to silence anyone or say who should
Or shouldn't post

It is also the nature of some illnesses that we seek to blame rather than focus on the more painful aspects of treatment. Sometimes when that is the case anything will be gathered as evidence of why something won't work rather than face what needs to be worked upon? It would be rubbish if that were facilitated by a thread like this.

Also for those suffering from a very serious mental health issue threads like these might help feed psychosis.

I think though that it's also a good point to discuss what we do have currently and how to best make use of what is provided.
Picking apart and rubbishing probably isn't best IMO anyway
Links advocates advice etc might be useful in that capacity
Any positive or useful sites or books would be fantastic

math , I see very little mention at all on this thread of the process of sectioning , and that by you and Maryz - I think you are thinking of the thread by one specific poster . It would be a tragedy if any one felt as you fear , and posters here have posted in a thoughtful way , discussing positive aspects of mh recovery wherever possible - the raison' 'etre of the thread

Sorry if I misunderstood "..who may well be more ill than you as I appear to have .

Alameda, 'stupid' very clearly no.

Possibly delusional? You simply do not know and neither do I.
Possibly engaged in resistance to the idea that they need help and having their fears reinforcedhere? You simply don't know and neither do I.

Agree about the dangers you describe so well ,Perry , but do not agree that this thread is likely to facilitate such negativity .

< applauds thunk's powerful points which are being drowned out by this debate >

Agree perry - rubbishing not generally helpful, an the vast majority here have been careful not to rubbish but to turn their negatives into positives. Agree a million % with positive links and books etc - think most of my posts have been linking (or defending!) and hope there's something useful in there for people. Equally I've got some reading suggestions.

Really keen to look at the mindfulness materials, thank you - it's something I've only briefly come across briefly so will hit Amazon :)

No probs, futuredream. As to PTSD & mindfulness, Tara Brach does talk about that in her podcasts (about needing to proceed with caution, I think). Might be worth contacting the Oxford Centre for Mindfulness (or whatever they're called - where Mark Williams is based) to see if there's any guidance on that.

As to accessing mindfulness stuff for free perry there are some great podcasts (including guided meditations) by Tara Brach, free on iTunes (& on her website). There is also an interview with Jon Kabat-Zinn on Sounds True (another free podcast list on iTunes). I haven't listened to that particular interview but it might be a good starting point for those who want to know more about mindfulness. I haven't done a course (£175 near me) but just beginning my own mindfulness practice at home has been transformative. I also got some Jon Kabat-Zinn books from the library and ended up buying some and a set of his mindfulness CDs (about £9 from Amazon I think).

(FWIW futuredream I'm hearing thunk too and trying to do what the thread is here to do - post about our experiences and suggest resources:) )

mathanxiety I think your posts are misguided.

I regularly see people advised to attend A&E or their GP or to ring CRS if they are in crisis.

People can be mentally unwell and legitimately unhappy with aspects of their treatment. I am struggling at the moment and I had CRS at my house today to support me, we spent some of that time discussing the distress caused by an inappropriate comment from them when I rang for support (I was told that a grown woman should be able to be alone without hurting herself - this is largely useless information, I know that, it isn't true for me at the moment, so I felt told off and the reality of my risk and fear about my risk ignored). Is my distress at this not justified because I am unwell? I think CRS do a great job and they have been brilliant (I made a post about it this week in fact).

I have lots of insight and I have capacity. So while I am unwell and make unwise decisions about some things, I can still recognise the effects of inappropriate treatment and comments and I have the right to advocate for myself to receive suitable care.

I hope people read threads and recognise that they can work with mental health services to find the right care for them, and not to be scared not to speak up for themselves.

Must just add that Tara Brach comes at mindfulness from a Buddhist perspective (where it originated) but you don't have to be a Buddhist to benefit from her approach.

What thunks said at 20.34 - far more eloquently than I'm able this evening

Ooooo thank you harrietspy - will take a look!

PTSD is very dIfficult to treat by one methodology afaik usually cbt and Reexperiencing of some form in a guided safe environment with a seasoned PTSD expert. My brother had a lot of help using EMDR

I know that there is a lot of talk about mindfulness being helpful in approaching PTSD but I'm unsure how widely it's happening.

fluffy - thank you - I'm really pleased you were able to have that discussion - sounds like you have a really helpful CRT currently :)