Support thread - adults on the Autistic Spectrum :)

[fuzzpig]

Hello!

I've seen a lot of MNers mention being on the Spectrum, whether diagnosed or not. I thought we could use a long-running place to chat, share coping strategies and basically to know there are other people like ourselves, who won't judge us for being different.

I'm new to all this myself - only realised there was a possible name for How I Am a couple of weeks ago (thanks to MN)! Now I have a referral to an adult ASD specialist, to see if I have Aspergers. It's all happened very quickly.

Enough waffle from me (for now anyway...) but I hope other people will come along and find this thread useful. :)

Jeez, I have more empathy in my little finger than most people so I agree with you, TheUnmember.

Did that research mention anything about gender, TUM? I was reading an article (given to me by my lovely manager) about why AS is missed in girls - because girls often present very different symptoms to boys. I was wondering if empathy is one of those differences, hence the whole 'Aspie hubbies' thing?

Feel quite fraudulent coming in here and posting but I've been thinking about this non-stop now for the last two days and it's driving me mad doing drafts in my head all the time and worrying about what everyone will think when they read but here goes, probably a lot of waffling.

My partner showed me the first test linked in this thread and I got 133/200, and NT 63/200. Also on the AQ test I got a score of 39. Yet I don't really feel like any of the symptoms that seem typical really relate to me, and she certainly doesn't think so. Worth confirming that I'm male and people described in 'Aspie hubbies' thread don't really sound like me. Also wondering whether I have truthfully answered the questions, but each time I try and get similar scores. It's never really something that had occurred to me until I answered some questions and felt like it was a quiz on me, but mostly the social side of things. I think I hide it well, but I am really uncomfortable in any kind of people situation, wondering what they think of me, getting anxious and embarassed. I hate crowds, people walking near me/behind me and I get really frustrated when driving because I don't know what people expect of me/they don't always do what they should. I can't do small talk and generally try to end conversations as quickly as I can. At work, if people come in the door I'll go the long way out of the office so I don't go near them. I don't have any friends, nor any interest in making any as work is all the socialising I ever want to handle.

I am really empathetic, to the point where I have major issues with guilt. I don't know how to express it though. I can do hugs with my partner/daughter, and listen to family problems, but I can't really say anything about it. She knows I care a lot in these situations as she's said as much, but I don't really think I handle it in the same way most would. I'm not one for talking about issues. I usually make quips (this doesn't sound Aspie?) to deflect situations rather than having to actually talk about them. In any serious situation (or confrontation) I just go silent until I can process everything.

I don't have any particular talents, just one obsession that isn't particularly useful and have a lot of difficulty sticking to any task or hobby except this one. Often I'll try to be constructive and do something useful, but I just end up tossing ideas around in my head and get frustrated because I can't decide which is the right choice.

Sorry to hijack the thread like this, I don't really know what I want from this. I just felt like I had to write something as it's all I can think about. Like I said, I felt like the quiz was almost describing me in places, but I feel like I've cheated in some way as if I'm looking for an excuse for my problems (been battling depression for years).

Here's the article.

I don't think that this is one of the differences which prevent diagnosis in girls. I think those differences are more to do with societies perceptions of 'normal'. A boy having models of every known dinosaur and lining them all up is perceived as unusual. A girl having every known Barbie and lining them all up is perceived as typical. A 12 year old boy getting overwealmed by social interaction and crying is perceived as strange. A 12 year old girl doing the same is perceived as a typical 12 year old girl.

Add to that the fact that girls, even those with ASD, are natural mimics so can fake it in a way boys can't.

2MinutesToLunchtime I haven't seen the 'aspie husbands' thread, but it's important to keep in mind that autism looking in is very different from autism looking out.

sorry, didn't meant to cause offence with comment re:empathy, I do agree that empathy is shown differently by people on the spectrum, rather than them not having empathy.

Hi 2minutes :) you sound very Aspie to me and not at all fraudulent. Your mention of writing drafts on your head made me laugh, I did that so many times! It was like I wrote your post myself.

sometimes I read a post in the morning, then spend the day writing and re-writing my reply in my head all day. Then I get home and type it out for real, and its nothing like the drafts i had been imagining!!!!

2minutes to lunchtime, sorry I didn't reply to your post earlier, I was just a bit worried I had offended other people in the discussion re:empathy so was focussed on that iyswim. I think as I have had nearly 8 years to get my head round the possible/probably aspie stuff, it's easy for me to forget how mind blowing it was when it first seriously occurred to me!

I often feel like a fraud about it all, it somehow feels like I don't have as many difficulties as other posters/people in media articles about it so I really identified with your last comment, about worrying it was somehow an excuse. It may be though that the depression is due to living with undiagnosed AS, as the social and sensory difficulties can be draining.

In terms of what you have said about "talent" - I think that is relatively rare amongst people on the spectrum, and not particularly important as diagnostic factor, the "Rain Man" type talent is q. rare. I think your references to an absorbing interest sound rather more relevant tbh.

System - or sometimes I plan to reply, rehearse it, then decide I've not got anything worth posting and don't post in the end!

yes me too and also spending so long planing what to say/ thinking about responses and what to say to those- never actually posting it then being surprised when I next return to read that none of my carefully planned conversation exists because I spent so long thinking about it, I had half convinced myself it was real and not just in my head.

In terms of what you have said about "talent" - I think that is relatively rare amongst people on the spectrum, and not particularly important as diagnostic factor, the "Rain Man" type talent is q. rare. I think your references to an absorbing interest sound rather more relevant tbh.

Actually special abilities are relatively common amongst people on the spectrum. It was one of the earliest traits identified. Leo Kanner referred to them as 'islets of ability' way back in 1943 in the first paper identifying autism as a condition.

The term now is 'savant syndrome' and research indicates that at least 30% of autistic people have it (Howlin et al 2009).

What actually counts as a talent though? Actually I'm not sure I want to know yet. I hate that talent thing. I told my colleague about the Aspergers (it came up as I was chasing up a book) - she is really lovely and mentioned it does include the intelligence etc... she is always saying how clever I am. That is one part of this I'm struggling with - coming to terms with the fact that, just like my bad symptoms are because of AS, the good ones are too. I feel that I no longer get to call myself clever because it's not me, it's the Aspergers. So the one thing I actually liked about myself - intelligence - is suddenly gone. I know it hasn't really, I know I am still much better than average at maths or whatever, but now I am comparing myself to other people with AS who are way ahead of me and I think, why isn't that me?! It's not like I've got anywhere with it, I'll be lucky if I even get a basic degree, I'm not going to have some high-flying academic career. Why do I have all the bad stuff, and the good stuff isn't good enough to make up for it. There's nothing to make up for the struggling, the depression, the crap parents who never bothered (I know the latter has nothing to do with the AS really... just adds to the anger ATM), I have nothing.

Sorry, I'm waffling, I've got myself into a shit self-pitying mood and I'm going to go and cry in bed now.

:(

A high IQ isn't a result of Aspergers.

Savant skills are categorised into 3 groups, described as 'Splinter Skills where the individual possesses specific skills that stand in contrast to their overall level of functioning, Talented Savants where the individual displays a high level of ability that is in contrast to their disability, and Prodigious Savants which involves a much rarer form of the condition, where the ability or brilliance is not only spectacular in contrast to the disability, but would be spectacular even if viewed in a non-disabled person. '

www.psy.dmu.ac.uk/drhiles/Savant%20Syndrome.htm

Thanks for the information about savant skills Unmember, I didn't realise it was as many as potentially 30% of people on the spectrum with savant skills . I was aware of the term and concept savant btw, but have an aversion to using it, as I hate the original term "idiot savant".

Fuzzpig, I agree with Unmember, that intelligence/high IQ etc is separate from the AS. At most I would say that AS may make a difference to how the intelligence is challenged, in terms of depth of academic interests, attention to detail etc. Btw Fuzzpig I think the worries about achievement (or lack thereof) are normal for your sort of age group - I remember reading in the media about a "quarterlife crisis".

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/05/quarterlife-crisis-young-insecure-depressed

You're quite right. They test IQ as part of assessing for autism because the pattern of IQ is distinctly different from NT IQ.

An IQ test (full-scale IQ) usually involves several differ tests which fall into 2 categories: verbal and performance. EG verbal tests could be vocabulary, comprehension or general knowledge. Your 'IQ' score is the average of all these tests (standardised against others of the same chronological age).

The normal pattern of IQ is scoring roughly the same for all the tests. Individuals with LFA almost always score significantly better on performance tests than on verbal ones. Individuals with HFA/AS almost always score significantly higher on verbal tests than on performance ones and will have uneven peaks on the subtests.

So someone with AS could have a formal IQ of 105, which is perfectly average. But this doesn't reflect their disability in only scoring 70 on performance not their skill in scoring 140 on verbal.

My full-scale IQ is 135 so my verbal IQ must be off the scale :o

This is very true. In the IQ test I had a few weeks ago my overall score was average, with most of the subsection scores also falling in the normal range. However on the maths part I scored way above average (95th centile) but below average in some verbal subsets and for processing I was only on 5th centile. I was told that it is very common for people on the autistic spectrum to display these kind of differences across sections of an iq test.

High IQ in AS can also cause problems which you wouldn't expect. It has been a major issue for my daughter at school. The school can't see her disability because her academic performance is on a par with her classmates. They can't grasp that she is in fact under acheiving because her IQ is exceptional (top 2%). Education should be about fulfilling your own potential, not meeting a general standard.

Thanks for your responses, still not sure myself. Too many things that I don't see in myself. Finding it hard to differentiate between what my natural reaction is, and how I've trained myself to react at work etc.

Completely relate to the quarter life crisis thing, and the high IQ being a burden in school. Unfortunately it's all about the general standard. Last time I did an IQ test was a good few years ago, scored 150 (no info on breakdown of results, though I seem to remember really struggling with picture patterns) iirc but my GCSEs were AAAAAAAABBD. Excelled in Maths, Science and History, did comparatively worse in compulsory Arts (the D), Language etc. All the school seemed to worry about though is the A*-C pass rate. A Levels I tanked completely, but again they just seemed to worry about pass rate. Unfulfilled potential on my part which I'm fully aware of and is one part of this 'crisis', but schools should do more to recognise people who can and should go further.

Can't take your intelligence away from yourself on the basis of a diagnosis Fuzzy. I've always thought that intelligent people are more prone to depression and 'problems' because our brains work so quickly and are always 'on' which makes things difficult to get away from. No blissful ignorance IYSWIM. This makes more sense than it being the other way around, that difficulties have elevated brain function beyond normal. I hope that makes sense and isn't offensive as it's meant to be reassuring!

My daughter did a really interesting test as part of her assessment. It put 'normal' side by side with ASD. So you could really see her difference (it was at the is point I began to see that I was AS as I would have answered the same as her). It involved questions like:

• when you phone someone which is more common a) you're ringing for a chat or b) you're ringing for a specific purpose? (I realised I have never rung anyone just to chat, not even my mum)

• you're doing something with a friend which is more likely a) you chose the activity and then decided who to do it with or b) you chose the friend and then decided what to do?

They're the only ones I can remember.

I've rung family for a chat, but only because if I don't I'll suffer repeats of the messages about how selfish and thoughtless I am if I don't, which is too much for me. Same with anything bad happening, I have to find out (try and just text) because I have a lot of guilt issues about thinking I should have done something etc. I can't say I'm ever engaged in the conversations. I guess that falls under a purpose though in the grand scheme of things.

See, from what you say I'd put you down as answer b). You may do a) but that is a learnt response rather than what comes from within. AS is what comes from within you can't learn it.

what is the right answer for the second question? I would pick a) if it was an activity that reequired a friend and couldn't be done on my own or with DC.

Dunno, but my daughter and I are both diagnosed aspies and we both answered a). Occasionally we might to b) but generally decision on activity comes first.