I am going to have to give in.

[OrmIrian]

Sorry this is so long - I want to get it all down so I can get it clear in my head.

Off citalopram since last April after 3 years. It took ages to get clear of all the shitty symptoms but was doing OK. But depression is creeping back - had a meltdown last night and can't stop crying today.

Thing is I know the depression is a symptom of something else. I am utterly exhausted and without energy. Started a few years back. All of a sudden I couldn't run the distances I had been running, just was too tired. I persisted for ages thinking that if I just got on with it I'd run through it. After about 6m of this I started to let myself run less, and then less again. Then I allowed 'injuries' to be my excuse to stop something that I had loved but which know was just a painful depressing slog. I was always tired, slept all the time, looked like a deaths' head with huge bags under my eyes. No energy to do the things I used to do without a second thought. I put on tonnes of weight.

Menopause, I thought - I has been perimenopausal for a while but thought that maybe HRT would help. It did get rid of the nightsweats and hot flushes but did nothing for the energy levels. GP asked if I needed my citalopram levels changed. I wasn't depressed. I knew what that felt like and I wasn't there.

Come off citalopram? When I first started taking it I noticed how much I slowed down - which was what I needed at the time. Maybe coming off it would help.

Thyroid? TSH is normal according to uK measurements. As is everything else. GP asked if I was sure I wasn't depressed. I wasn't depressed. I knew what that felt like and I wasn't there. I was going to ask them to do further tests as in the US my levels would have registed as abnormal but TBH I can't face the hassle.

My life has shrunk to the essentials. Work, kids, housework. DH was out last wed night. The boys were rampaging round the house at 11pm because I simply couldn't summon the energy to get up and make them go to bed. My marriage is at breaking point because I have no time or energy for DH. I don't run because I can't. I don't go out because I am too tired. I am a waste of space. I wish my family had someone better. They deserve someone better.

3m down the line and guess what? I am depressed. But I am depressed because I feel like death warmed up and no-one can tell me why. I don't feel ill because I am depressed. I don't feel like I felt when I went on citalopram in the first place (I was anxious rather than depressed) but maybe it will work just as well.

So I am giving in and doing what the GPs seem to want me to do. It's just easier.

Sorry about the self-pity.

Who?

How are you, OrmIrian?

Hi grockle. I am mildly pissed atm. Not good I know but great for my mood right now! Sorry you're having problems too - very similar situations by the sound of it. I just keep hoping that one day I will wake up and I 'll be the same person I was 2 years ago. The fit, energetic, dynamic, capable woman I was then instead of this weary, flabby, weepy excuse for a human being that I am right now.

Orm, my lovely, I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am you feel like this. And that you are not an excuse for a human being. You're lovely. You are in a grim place at the moment. It is a place that many of us have been in, I think. Please try to take care of yourself, and/or let/force someone else to. Much love. MI. x

Hi again Orm, yes I get what you mean. I have a friend with ME, unfortunately the diagnosis is done (or was in her case anyway) by ruling out everything else - there's no positive test, as it were.

No elephants lurking in the back room (from your past or something?) that you thought had gone away, but now you're finding poo again?

Mildly pissed is ok, I think. I'm teetotaler atm due to depressive tendencies. Drink makes me more impulsive than I usually am & I can't be doing bad stuff ATM.

Am seeing GP on thurs to beg for sleeping tablets & a miracle.

Take someone with you to the doctors, write down before you go what you want to say, I find writing it down really helps in case you mentally fall apart and forget it all in the surgery, so it's clear to you and the doctor and your DH what it is you want addressed? Please let us know how you get on, I hope you do get some tests done, was listening to Radio 2 yesterday about people who wished they had listened to their gut instincts and pushed for tests. I think often we do know our bodies better than medical people, don't let them fob you off. Please keep us posted on how you get on as well!

Morning.

I've just searched the running threads to find the last posts that I made burbling on about running 12 miles and the sun being in the sky and all being right with the world... and then a few wailing about howbad I felt and how I had lost all my fitness. April 09. Nearly 3 years ago now. I hadn't realised it was that long. Made lots of abortive attempts to get back to it since but now worked. I have a timescale at least now to tell the GP.

Thanks for all the support and advice. Now to make that appointment....

I've stopped drinking too Grockle and, while I never drank much in the first place, I do feel better for it.

Keep us posted Ormirian. Being mildly pissed by 10pm is probably quite a normal state of affairs for lots of people! I did look at the time of your post though.

Orm, I made my appointment 10 days ago when I was at rock bottom, sitting in the car, shaking and crying. Now, it is looming, I feel less bad and feel like a fraud going. But I need to know I have addressed the problem and do something to stop it getting worse.

Good luck grockle.

I have decided to leave the appointment for a while. I am recovering from an evil virus that won't let go of me, this is my lowest time of year and if I go now I can forecast exactly what will happen - I will get in, sit down, start to talk, burst into tears, she will hand me a box of tissues, I will be pathetically grateful when she says' Do you think you might be depressed?' and then nothing constructive will come out of it apart from a prescription for cit. And then I will have to work up the energy to do it all over again.

So the gameplan is

1. Get the whole thing including the time line sorted out in my head. Write it down if neccesary.
2. Make an appointment in a month when I am feeling more able to fight my corner and not give in.
3. Meanwhile make a concerted attempt to change my diet and try running again - I am fat, unfit and still eating an overindulgent post-christmas diet (I have the Paul McKenna book and it really does help). If i feel better about myself it will be easier to demand help. I suspect the running won't be possible but at least I can say I tried.

BTW the booze is another issue. Before christmas I was drinking virtually nothing, Got into bad habits and although I never drink to excess it is quite frequent. So no 4 is to knock that on the head for now.

I don't really have any advice to offer here other than to say please don't beat yourself up over how you are feeling.

A close friend of mine has BPD and seems to have very similar symptoms to those that you are describing. She has also had several spinal injuries, and gone through a hideous divorce... so needless to say she's not Mrs Happy. However, various bouts of therapy and constantly monitored medication mean that she is now working her way back to normality.

I have suffered with depression myself in the past - at my lowest I was sitting under a tree by a railway line wondering why I didn't have the courage to get onto the line (I have never admitted this before). I had nothing 'as such' to be depressed about but I think it was a case of having bottled things up and trying to be strong for a few years prior to that. I went to my GP and refused anti-depressants, so they organised therapy for me, which really helped.

If you have something viral then that's not helping at all. Maybe you can try taking small steps at a time. Don't push yourself to go running, but make time to go for a walk. And just enjoy the scenery. Note down the good points - even if they are as simple as 'smelled a great cup of coffee' or 'heard a bird singing'. Obviously if you are able to reduce the drinking then it ought to help as alcohol can be a terrible depressant. I don't drink a great deal but I found a good 'trick' to fool myself was to drink something that takes a mixer. So gin & tonic, for example. Then you just put more and more tonic in. It pretty much tastes the same, and you feel that you're getting a reward!

Sorry for babbling.... :)

Good plan, Orm. And the booze too. It's easy to slip into bad habits with that and, ime, it doesn't help much. You sound like you are thinking clearly.

I saw Gp today and it was more or less how you said - my voice wobbled and I cried, I walked away with prescription for ADs, sleeping tablets, phone number for counselling, a follow up appointment in a couple of weeks & an offer of a sick note for a couple of weeks so I can rest (much needed) and try to get my head together. I declined the sick note for now but took everything else - all of which, I think, I need atm but it doesn't address the underlying problems

I think it will help me get through the next couple of week and then I will be able to reiterate the other issues.

Hoping the sun shines and you begin to feel stronger Orm

Bad bad bad few weeks. Kept thinking about walking out of my life. In a panic I found an unopened pack of cit and started taking them. Stupid stupid thing to do I know but I was desperate. Made an appointment to see GP on Wed. I know there are lots of things I need to talk to him about - just hope I manage to get it all out.

DH upset me a little. When I was contemplating taking the tablets he encouraged me to do so. I was in such a low place I really needed someone to say No, not someone to say it was OK. I don't think he is on board with it at all - he just wants me to be nice and not rock the boat

I am also fed up with work atm. I took 2 days off last week to be with the kids over half-term. We were in Bristol museum on Thursday afternoon with my parents when my work phone rang - spent 20 mins talking to them about a problem, had to send a few emails and then spend 2 hours working remotely when I got home. And then a few hours the next day and several on saturday. Because no bugger can do my job and no-one has the time, energy or inclination to learn how to! Our dept is tiny, getting smaller and are really under pressure. I need to know when I get home, I am HOME. Every time the phone rings me heart starts thumping to the extent that if someone else has the same ringtone as me I start sweating.

Such a total failure.

My kids are the only thing keeping me going. DS1 gives the biggest strongest hugs when I'm low. DD laughs at me and tells me not to worry and DS2 is so happy in his little world that nothing his nutty mother does bothers him much. They are my legacy and I am so so proud of them.

Orm.

I can't help with the meds or anything. I just want to sit and hold your hand for a bit this afternoon.

Have you thought about starting the C25K? Starting brand new and afresh?

Someone better than me will be along in a minute.

Hi Orm sorry to hear you're feeling so low . Instead of running how about going to a class , aerobics or spinning or zumba? I ran for years and it was only when I started going to classes that I realised what a bloody lonely pursuit it is . when you're in a class, you're so busy working out what comes next the time flies in , Then there's the company and even a coffee afterwards.

Thanks.

I love love love running but I am struggling to get back into it atm. I keep trying and then losing the impetus. Classes are good - and I've wondered about it but it;'s hard to fit in with some else's timetable - running can be done when it suits me. And I love the solitude - maybe that's part of my problem.

Hi Orm, good luck with the doctors appointment today, are you taking someone with you? thinking of you.

Thanks strawberry but it's tomorrow. No-one going with me. No-one who can help really. DH is no good at all. He sees me as the problem and ADs as the solution.

Hi Orm, how are you feeling today? Do you have friends you can talk to, anyone who can support you a bit?

Not really. One of the consequences of the way I've been recently is that I have lost contact with lots of people. I haven't had the energy to bother with anyone - work, house, kids - that's about it. Need to build bridges but can't as things stand.

Right now as long as I can talk to someone on here I am happier dealing with it alone.

It's such a viscous circle, isn't it, the things that help you can't do. What are you doing today - is there something however small you could do that would make you feel a tiny bit better?

To me it sounds like it could be symptoms of perimenopause and/or hypothyroidism. What was your TSH level ? What is within the normal range may not be normal for you - my gp recommends that a level of 2 or over is treated but with most doctors you would probably have to fight for this but it sounds like it would be worthwhile.

I have also not been feeling great for the past couple of years with some similar symptoms to you and have been to the gps on numerous occasions with little sucess and I have come to the conclusion that mine are due to perimenopause/menopause. When I have spoken to my gp about my symptoms, which include some things that I wouldn't have thought were due to menopause e.g. dizziness, he is fairly clueless. It was only when I saw this website recommended on mn and saw their list of symptoms, which are far more comprehensive than any other I had previously seen, that I realised it was probably all down to hormones ( or lack of them !) I think I am also probably depressed but it is a reaction to not feeling great - why would you not be if you feel crap all the time ? The problem is, if it is perimenopause what do you do about it ? I have tried some herbal things with not much success but if I start to feel any worse then I will probably give HRT a go as it turned my dm's life around when she was about my age.

I hope you get somewhere with your gp tomorrow.

Oh orm, only just seen you've updated this. Ive had thoughts of walking out too. Or putting DS in the car and going somewhere, anywhere, far far away.

I'm not really any help, I'm afraid other than a sympathetic ear. I have no energy or motivation to do anything other than eat biscuits atm

I've spent much of today thinking - about what the problem is and what to do. There's so many problems but I think one of my biggest is that I don't feel valued by anyone. DP has disappeared (sort of, long story), work never say if I am doing anything well which leaves me feeling like I am shit at my job and they only want me to be there because no-one else will do it. And DS is, well, 6. He just needs someone to cook, clean and read to him. Sorry, I didn't intend this to be about me

grockle - so sorry I have no advice to give - obviously I suppose! But likewise a listening ear.

wine - I am on HRT for perimenopause already. It stopped the night sweats and hot flushes but didn't touch anything else. Funnily enough I wondered about hypothyroid but my level was normal. I think it was 1.9 so not high according to UK levels but I am wondering if I can get the GP to give me t3 and t4 tests. But then again i don't feel cold all the time which is a hypothyroid symptom.

I am prepared to do anything to improve things - including taking ADs after I swore I never would again - but what I can't stand is being told there's nothing wrong when I know there is. It can't be normal to be so exhausted all the time, it just can't!