Calling all sufferers of depression and anxiety who have "blips"

[NanaNina]

I have still not made a complete recovery from a severe episode of depression last year. I have approx 80% og good days and 20% of bad days, that can vary in their intensity. It makes planning my life difficult as I never know when the bad days are coming, nor how long they will last. There are no triggers that I can identify for these blips.

I am seeing a psychologist on the NHS and she is very nice and very credible. We were discussing my bad days today (that she seems to think are like ordinary bad days that everyone has from time to time, but they aren't like that at all) and I told her I often cried for 20 mins or so on my DPs shoulder and this sometimes helped. She asked me what I was crying about and of course I couldn't say. I am convinced it is a symptom of depression and has always been my major sympton when severely depressed. I said this to her but I could see she wasn't really buying into it.

I am SO frustrated at the MH professionals who do not seem to understand that there is no reason for crying, no reason for feeling afraid, fear of fear. The only people who seem to understand this are the people who suffer like this.

Are any of you about?

I do understand this NN but in my case there is always a trigger, even if I'm unaware of it at the time. It often operates subconscionessly. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and after the event I can usually work out what caused it. Just an observation though, you say that "it makes planning my life difficult as I never know when the bad days are coming, nor how long they will last". In thinking / acting on this thought it's almost as if you are expecting the blips to happen thus always in anticipation. Feel free to correct me . If you're having 80% good days isn't that good enough odds to assume that all will be fine and that you should plan ahead. If it gets to the day of the 'plans' and it happens to be a bad day then you can change your plans at that point? Most plans don't need to be set in concrete. You might find that you're able to meet more of your plans than you'd originally thought you would.

I know exactly where you're coming from. I've had postnatal anxiety for the past 9 months and I'd like to tentatively say I'm having more 'good' days. But my panic sometimes hits like a sledgehammer from nowhere. DH, bless him, says "ooh well maybe it was A or B" but most of the time I'm unconvinced - - - particularly as pre baby I never felt this way. I am convinced with me at least it's hormonal or physical factors. I'm still BFing but the anxiety has decreased inversely to the amount of milk he's taking when I look back. I'm also Type One diabetic and low blood sugar tends to bring on the panic/ strangeness. Any mental health professional/GP/HV/midwife have pooh-poohed my theories and put it all down to the changes in my life brought about by becoming a mum. I'm not convinced. When did your depression/anxiety start?

Nananina - thank you for starting this post!
After a relatively smooth 10 years I too am having a 'blip' and there doesn't seem to be a trigger. Strange as there have been some VERY stressful situatons that I have coped with.
What happens to me though is that I become more and more anxious, I start avoiding things that are might make me anxious -like work, which in turn makes me more anxious, and it is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. I start thinking I can't do anything right at all, and bursting in to tears at nothing. It all sounds so simple to solve, unless you have been there!
Anyway I wanted to post to say, although I don't have any theories or answers- you are not alone! I hope today is a good day.

I am an anxiety/depression sufferer although been mostly ok for rhe past few years. I find I am likely to cope wuth rhe bad things and it's after they have happened that I fall apart sp to speak. Feel at the moment I am teetering towards rhe edge but feel I can't really fall apart just yet.

Thank you to everyone who has posted so far. All very intersting and individual of course.

Chocattack - I think it is fortunate that youcan identify triggers, even if you have to "search" your mind for what caused it. I have tried this and my DP is often trying to convince me it was because of this or that, but I have never been able to identify anything. Sometimes I have been upset over something and expected a blip the next day but have been ok. I wish I could identify them - does that make it easier for you to handle them or to try to avoid whatever it was that was the cause of the blip.

I know what you mean about expecting blips but as they have been going on for 18 months, I can't really believe they will stop. I went 9 weeks in the summer without one and for the first time ever, I began to believe that was it, they had gone, but no they were back in Sept with a vengeance. I do actually make plans (nothing exciting as I am an OAP - maybe lunch out/garden centre or something similar with a friend but always say "with the usual proviso" and they know what I mean and very rarely have I had to cancel, because as you say the odds are that I am likely to be ok.

The one thing i have to plan ahead is flights to Ireland (son, dil and gr/chrn) living over there, and we go about every 6 weeks. I have been having a blip once or twice over the past 18 months when going , but have managed to struggle through and the children are not old enough to notice. I hate either of my sons, dils and grandchildren to see me in a state (well they never have actually, because I make sure of that) I just find it embarrassing.

Ohnoreundo it's horrid isn't it when the sledgehammer hits from nowhere. I know as soon as I wake whether I am ok or whether it's a crap day. It's difficult isn't when all HCPs think they know the reason, and yet you feel intuitively that mightn't be right, or not the whole reason. I think it's good though that you have been able to realise that your anxiety has been tied up with your baby's feeding pattern. Is the baby a boy or a girl and are you getting some pleasure from him/her.

Hi Elf - I am assuming that you had an episode of depression/anxiety 10 years ago and it has reared it's ugly head again, which i think is the nature of the beast. I went 15 years between severe episodes, and I think anxiety is the first symptom to show itself. It does sound Elf as though you might be heading for another episode of depression/anxiety as you are mentioning some of the classic symptoms, avoiding things, becoming more anxious, feeling worthless and bursting into tears. Have you been to the GP for meds, cus I think you need to, and it is so scarey isn't it when another episode arises and there is no identifiable reason. I know exactly what you mean because in the 15 years between my episodes, I have had some very stressful times and was working full time in a job I loved but was very stressful and I coped without any problem. The seemingly outof the blue, I am an emotional wreck.

QED you sound a bit like Elf and myself inthat you have been ok for years and then another episode seems to be on the horizon. You say you are teetering on the edge, but can't really fall apart just yet, but you know that rationally you can't decide when you will go downhill - would that we could make that decision. Have you been to the GP yet, if not I think you should because leaving things might make it worse in the end. I am a believer in ADs as I think they have been a life saver for me.

Sending warm wishes to you all, and hopefully we will all have brighter times ahead. NNx

NanaNina I think what chocattack means is that seeing that you think you have 80% good days and 20% bad, that means 4 out of every 5 days are good ones, so it's best to assume that the day you are planning for is a good one. And I think she's right.

In terms of blips, looking at my own dh and also my own experience of bad days (you get them with ptsd too) - it often seems to me that triggers are much smaller and seemingly insignificant than you would think. With dh it has more than once been a comment that I made in a slightly snappy way. For me a few sentences in a radio program while driving. Not the major stressors - they often call on different coping skills.

Hmmmm - yes 4 out of 5 good days sounds so much better than 80% good ones. I don't understand figures or numerical concepts - think it's called discalculia, like dyslexia only with numbers. The trouble is the bad days tend to come in blocks and my main worry is always going to Ireland as that can't be cancelled on the day. I almost hope for bad days before we go, to "get them out of the way" so I have more chance of being ok. We are going to Ireland for Christmas so am a bit anxious about this, but hope all will be ok.

Hello one and all. This is something we actually debated at my support grp last week - we are lucky enough to have persuaded a MH specialist to join us once a month (lots of lobbying is going on behind the scenes!). One of the girls at the group said she can't see where the blips come from and just accept they're there and there might not be a reason. Our perinatal specialist said she begged to differ and she thinks there is always a trigger, no matter how seemingly insignificant.

I'm not sure what I think - the one thing that bothers me is that CBT actually sometimes makes me smore analytical and search for answers when perhaps beforehand I might have let things go without dwelling too much.

Sorry that's not conclusive, just proves you're not alone with this conundrum :-)

Hi Natsyloo lovely to hear from you. Why do MH professionals always cling to the idea that there are triggers - maybe they are right and the triggers are insignificant, but if you can't feel that, it's difficult to believe it - well it is for me. I heartily wish I could identify triggers. My close friend who is an art therapist and works with people with enduring mental health problems, also thinks the same about there always being a trigger. She said in an email "if we can't make any rational sense of these ups and downs, all we are left with is the irrational. YES but what's wrong with the irrational. Maybe some things are irrational and we have to accept that. I have trouble with the notion that people who have never experienced this awful illness can tell us things that just don't fit - I think at these times "It's my head we're talking about, not yours!"

Anyway hope you are doing well NL and it seems your group is still running, which is brilliant.

NNx

...does that make it easier for you to handle them or to try to avoid whatever it was that was the cause of the blip.

Interesting question NanaNina. I don't think it does make it any easier for me to handle at the time. Probably because at the time I'm not always necessarily sure what the trigger is. Avoidance however is a different kettle of fish and yes once I've established a trigger I generally either avoid the situation in future (if that's possible) or if it's not possible to avoid I psych myself up in an attempt to handle the situation better.

Natsyloo the over-analysing nature of CBT also bothers me, mainly because my natural tendency is to over-analyse things

what a timely thread, it is harder at Christmastime I think especially if there are loved ones and there is so much pressure to provide "christmas cheer" if you are a mother/grandmother and not to put a damper on things for anyone! All I want to do is curl up in front of the Christmas telly with a cup of coffee and then slink into bed. I feel a mixture of guilt and rage at the people around me, guilt at not providing a nice clean Christmassy house and lots of happy Christmassy experiences and rage that it should be down to me when I feel as if I almost wish I could go into hospital for a bit and just be looked after until I can get some respite for my head. Not to trivialise the real pain of people in hospital and their relatives, it is just with two small children there is no escape and I feel like an animal in a cage with nowhere to hide. I have enough energy either to cuddle my children and play with them a bit or else do housework and right now they are demanding the former a lot, maybe they pick up on my sadness and need the reassurance.

Then I am all bright and bubbly with the people I meet so as not to put my bad feelings on them and the only thing I can't hide is the messy house and chaos when I open the front door, so I don't let anybody in, not literally or figuratively.

My dh also suffers from depression so I am more likely to get brief sympathy then resentment from him when I suffer blips and as he puts it I am always ill. Yesterday I thought I was doing so well coping and he just told me I was being a real drag that day.

I am finding though that acceptance is the first step or else we get caught up in a vicious circle trying to feel differently, trying to get rid of the feelings, and then only feeling worse, whereas with gentleness we can get at least something small done and find some comfort, bit by bit it gets better.

Thank you NanaNina for beginning the discussion, some of the worst times come out of feeling so lonely with this, but we are not alone are we?

Hi FF - completely agree with you about Christmas. In spite of all the "season of goodwill" and all that stuff, it is actually a very difficult time for many people. I believe that whatever emotions we are going through, Christmas just heightens them. Many people commit suicide around Christmas, possibly believing that everyone is having a Christmas like you see on the Ads on TV, and it's only them that is lonely. January of course is the busiest time for Relate and other counselling services.

I do so wish you could curl up with a coffee and watch christmas TV and then slink off to bed - I know that feeling oh so well. I am much more fortunate than some of you young mums on here, who are struggling with depression and young children, as I can slink off under the duvet if I feel like it, at least when I'm at home. I am almost phobic about my adult kids, partners/wives and grandchildren seeing me when in a bad blip - well they don't really because I make sure of that. You mention wanting to go into hospital to be looked after and have no responsibilities and I totally understand. I have had two 3 months spells on a psych ward (15 years apart) and it did provide me with the opportunity not to have to pretend to be anything other than the emotional wreck that I was.

I find your last para about acceptance very interesting and agree with you about the viscous circle that makes us worse not better, and being gentle with ourselves and I will certainly try to remember that when the next blip arrives. There is a poster on MN (Madmouse) who you may have come across on the MH threads and she said on another thread, more or less what you are saying. She is not out of the woods but is getting better, but she said that looking back she wished she hadn't worried so much about what other people thought and had just accepted how she felt.

This is definitely me, always worrying if I am ok to do this or that, especially where my gr/chrn are concerned. My 11 year old g/dghtr said the other day "Nan why can't you come over every Thursday instead of only some of them, cus when I'm at school on Thursday I look forward to seeing you, but then you're not there sometimes" OMG the guilt and shame came washing over me and I truly didn't know what to say to her. How can you tell an 11 year old about depression. I passed it off with a joke saying "Oh I didn't think you loved me so much" and she rolled her eyes like they do. I asked her mum and dad after what I should say and my very sensible DIL said "there's no need to make any excuses, just say that sometimes it's convenient and other times it isn't" hmmmm - it has worried me ever since, cus I'm worried she might think I don't care about her. I have decided in the new year I will go over over (only 15 miles) on whatever day i feel ok regardless of whether it's a Thursday.

Don't try FF to "do" christmas too much, even though you have young children. Hope you are not having a house full of people around. When the children have gone to bed, you could lie on the sofa (with a warm cuddly blanket if you have one) and watch TV and slink off to bed.

NO we are not alone and it helps so much to hear that others feel similar things - not that we wish it on anyone, it just makes us feel less lonely and peculiar. Thinking of you and hoping you can get some peace for yourself this christmas (it's only a day or so) and then over.

Hi NanaNina

How are you today?

Your psychologist doesn't sound hugely helpful. I've lost track, are you currently on the ADs?

It's awful never knowing when a blip may come. Sometimes I feel like I have depression but other times depression definitely has me. We can't give in to it though. The 80% of good days are definitely worth it. I find the trouble is that when I am having a bad day, I can't see that the other days are good. I just feel like it is all bad. I keep thinking I must write a note to myself when I am having a really good few days. That was I can read it when things are bad and hopefully realise that life can be good.

Fiddlydee xx

Hi NN

As you know I am also a 'blipper' .

For me there usually isnt a trigger - they just come out of the blue usually after a lovely few days. But there have been odd times when caused by extreme tiredness.

It drives me mad when medical people or friends etc say 'oh we all have bad days' but a blip is nothing like a bad day for me.

Last week I had a 'bad day'. Heavy period. Fell over and twised my ankle. Start of a heavy cold. And a disciplinary meeting I had to hold which went badly. But 'mentally' i felt ok and was quite calm in myself as I happily moaned my way through my 'bad day'. And then when I got home I fell onto the sofa completely shattered and just let rubbish telly wash over me.

With a blip - I would be anxiety ridden, very very low and find it very difficult to get through the day.

Two very different things for me.

Hope that makes sense and you are all ok x

Fiddleydee ok today thanks....I know exactly what you mean about losing sight of the good days, when the bad days come. This is why I keep a log of bad days. I write all the dates of the month in my pad and only use it when I am having a bad day - I also have categories for bad days, NG/NB (sort of 50/50. NG++++ (really bad) NG + improve later etc. I don't record the good days, as I know if the dates are empty on the pad they were god days. This really does help me to keep track and remind myself of how many god days i have. Still hate it when the bad days come and still think I'll never have another good day, if it's a really bad day. Even on bad days I usually improve by evening.

I am still on ADs (imipramine 200mg per day) and will be on them for life, as my last episode occurred after coming off them, when I had been on them for 15 years. Well at least that's what I believe as I had only been off them for 4 months when the dep/anx returned and took a nose dive, with me in hospital for 3 months. Mind I did have somelife stresses/physical illness during the months that I was off them, but there is no way of being sure is there.

Hi Kizzie - fancy seeing you here!! Oh yes I know that one very well "well we all have bad days" - that was even said to me on a psych ward! I told a woman who lives in our road notlong ago because she had been telling me about her son who has schizophrenia. She didn't really listen and then said "what you need is some sun"........and walked off.........aaaargh....I wished I hadn't told her. I feel odd when I see her now and just say hello and walk on.

Also my psychologist who is ver nice doesn't believe how awful the bad days are (she doesn't exactly say so but I sense it) and thinks blips and just "ordinary bad days" again, not actually said it but that is the clear inference.

Hope you are on a run of good days Kizzie NNx

Yuk - bad blip today. Stayed in bed till mid-day but forced myself up. Coming up for air now 3.15......worried because we are going to Ireland on Friday quite early and mornings are always awful. Don't know how I am going to get on plane if I feel like I did this morning, and then my son, dil and gr/chrn will see me in a bad state so that is a real worry. DP being lovely and saying "we will get through this together" - hope all blippers are not blipping!

I'm a serial blipper, many more good days than bad.

My trigger is prolongued stress, one stressy thing = fine; six =i'm wobbling, seven= i'm out

Thankfully DC's are older so I can take to bed with a cup of hot choc and if all I manage to do is go to work that day, then I've done brilliantly.

I used to feel so guilty, now I don't care (9 years it's taken me). A few days of TLC is always the cure for me.

Hi I just wondered how long a 'blip' should last for?

I've been struggling for the last 3/4 weeks getting steadily more stressed and less motivated. I finally gave in after a particularly bad day on Saturday and upped my meds by 25mg. My doctor had previously said it was fine for me to do this as I do tend to be light sensitive and also can't exercise much at the moment due to a serious foot injury.

I'm currently waiting for the new dose to kick in but do feel a little calmer now. Should I have just tried to push on through though as could have been a blip?

No, pushing through a blip only makes the ultimate blip worse.

Accepting the blip is the way to go, do what you life-threateningly must do then do what you need to do to feel better. Doing cleaning is not life threatening unless you do, in fact, eat off your floor, sorry

can i join is in?i thought lurching between well and disaster was just me!

Oh no, not at all

Feel free!

excelent

How do you manage your blippery, liveinazoo ?

sorry took a while to come back,fretting elsewhere....not well half the time.i still dont see it coming a l,ot of the time then realise after that i had been neglecting old faithfuls like regular eating and sleep[though i dont sleep brilliantly cos the meds].sometimes i have to really feel crap and hide under the duvet for a day before i can start to pull back up,other times i can see a way forward practically.i know i have to get out and about regularly or i get more anxious[i dont drive,walk everywhere]and that provides me with physical release.not got the confidence for a gym!!!!!sometimes i wish i didnt have to keep taking the meds,i miss be able to sleep through the night and wake up at least feeling with it.mn bin great since i got the internet a couple months ago.at least it stops me feling to insular at night when the kidsare all in bed

I'm only wise after the fact too.

At the time there appears to be no reason, and then, guess what, I'm better and the reason is glaringly obvious.

It's a funny old illness, isn't it?