*deep breath* I regret having children.

[BadGround]

Ive namechanged clearly... even so, writing the title took me about 20 minutes... but it still doesn't sound wrong.

I regret having my ds. He is 15 months old now, and while I'd go to the ends of the Earth for him, there is not a day goes by that I don't kick myself.

It is not PND. I am not depressed or 'down'. No doubt someone will try to convince me it is, just like unhappy victorian ladies were labelled as mentally ill when they were desperately unhappy with the lives society gave them. I am perfectly happy with my life, or rather, I was. My son is perfectly lovely, and my dh is extremely helpfull. I adore them both. And no, I wasn't pressured into it, either. I was in love with the idea. I thought it was what I wanted. Society told me it was what I wanted ,right?

I would never give up my ds, and I look forward to giving him a loving environment to grow and learn... but if there was a way to reverse time, and politely, painlessly engineer him out of existence, I would. Honestly.

It never occurred to me that I had any choice otherwise. Nobody ever tells you that you have a choice. I miss my old life intensely, and the thought that I had every right and opportunity to keep it that way makes me sick. It's got to the point that these thoughts don't make me feel guilty anymore.

I miss my relationship with my partner. I miss what we did together. I miss being able to walk out the front door of my own bloody house without a second thought. I miss having the money to spend on the odd nice thing. I miss having a house full of our nice, beautiful, adult things. I miss being able to ponder freely over my career options.

Honestly, truthfully, does anyone feel the same? I don't mean those who are unfortunate enough to have depression... does anyone actually endure cold, hard regret? Even just sometimes?

I don't want help. I don't even know what I want. I don't think I could describe myself as feeling "desperate". I guess i just want to feel like I'm not a hideous monster all on my own.

I know I'll probably get a million identical replies of "It's sometimes hard... but I wouldn't change them for the world!!!". Although, yeah, I'm happy for you.

Please don't hate me, is what I'm really trying to say. I actually consider myself quite a loving person.

Don't really know how to end this. Over to you.

[noddyholder]

The lovely home and relationship with your partner is only on hold for something equally special. My ds is nearly 17 and dp and I are virtua;lly like 2 people in a new relationship we are doing all the things that get put on the back burner and its great. I really enjoyed the years when ds was at school but was not really a baby person although i adored him I was quite used to a selfish single existence and so had to adjust! But once he was at school and I could get involved with that it was a lot easier. Your post doesn't sound regretful just shocked at teh change It will pass xx

[phatcat]

to those of you still struggling through the toddler years as did I, just keep in mind starting school as the target to aim for - 3/4 years max - not 18!! It WILL all start to come good then. Do whatever you have to do to try and survive each day now. For me I had to make future plans and take baby steps towards making progress with them - albeit on a much slower, lower level than I used to. Hang on in there ladies, every day ticked off is a step nearer. There will be moments of joy before then too - the corner is turned slowly without you really noticing ....

[Oblomov]

This thrread has made me feel a whole lot better. Hope it has for you too, OP. My ds's are 7 and 2 and I sincerely regret having them. Hope that gets better, becasue it would sure be a shame to go through the next 16 years feeling thta way about it, wouldn't it ?

[aStarWithHerOwnWays]

Menagerie you have brilliantly articulated some of my own feelings on this subject. Like lots of other mothers here, I adore my DS with an intensity that is frightening, but don't exactly thrill to the daily grind of cleaning, cooking and constant negotiation. We have recently moved area and I'm not working as am pg with our second, so I've gone from a nice familiar routine that gave me lots of headspace (friends round the corner, half the week at home and half at work) to being at home all day every day with a very active 2yo. I worry a lot that I'm not doing the best for him and that I'm not up to it, but I just refuse to sacrifice everything that is me to become some faceless mumbot. I don't think that would be in either of our interests.

And since DS arrived, I have found that actually my sense of who I was isn't necessarily something I want to hang onto in the future. The things I miss about life pre-children (spontaneity, personal independence etc.) are things I wasn't taking much advantage of anyway, for reasons that aren't relevant here. The dark moments of thinking 'fuck what have I done, tying myself into a lifetime contract of worry and hard work?' have actually helped me think about what sort of life I DO want: for myself, my children and my life as one of a partnership. Now I can see that these things will return as my lovely DS grows up, and that I'll hopefully have the added bonus of having made a funny, lively person who is curious about their world, so in the meantime I have a chance to think about ways to shape my/our future lives in a positive fashion. In that sense I think motherhood in all its colours has been hugely beneficial for me.

[menagerie]

LeQueen, I can believe that. The thing I mourned most, that I just couldn't believe had happened, was lack of space and time to think my own thoughts. from dawn to nightfall it felt like my head was crammed with breastfeeding and nappy changes and temperature checks and hospital runs and analysing screaming sounds to work out which one meant what. There was never even five minutes to just think my own thoughts. And in the job I gave up when the kids were born, I'd had a lot of autonomy and thinking time. It was the most difficult thing ever.

i remember meeting a mum in the park once. She was standing with her pram in full make up, heels and business suit. We got chatting and I asked if she was working. She said, 'No, I just have to put this on sometimes to feel human again.' I really knew what she meant.

[Mothigail]

Thank you all for this thread. I had my DS a week after graduating as a mature student. The collapse of an intellectual life has been killer. This thread will keep me sane, seriously.

[MarshaBrady]

I don't think this is so much about how maternal women are, it is much more to do with how much a person can deal with a domestic life. The change is abrupt and huge.

Most pnd I think is a natural reaction to being less free. Not being able to work or do something else. Not about being less maternal. It is unbelievably reducing in some cases and lots of people (including men if they had to) respond with pnd. Also mothers used to have more support than they do now.

Menagerie's post is great too, children are fun and interesting when they are at school age.

[Bonsoir]

When I was pregnant and going to ante-natal classes, I remember the (very wise and kind) MW who ran the community MW group being very firm with all of us and telling us not to buy lots of baby equipment and nursery furniture. She said that we would find out after the birth what we really needed, and that it was a lot less than everyone thought. Part of the ante-natal class included us imagining how we were going to leave the house with a newborn, and thinking through the logistics of life so that we didn't get stuck at home.

I luckily never had a second of PND - I was delighted to have a baby and took to motherhood immediately. I didn't actually yearn for my "old life" in anyway, and had no immediate desire to go out/travel/shop. But I never thought I had to limit myself because of my DD. I breastfed all over the place and took her out in her buggy and let her have her nap in it in a wet nappy . But I don't think she suffered for it at all and it kept me sane and happy.

The big shock for me was when she started pre-school and I was tied to the school time table. I felt severely limited and, tbh, it is now she is at school that I have lost my freedom.

[foxinsocks]

I know Annie went back to work but I am amazed by those who felt this way and didn't return to work. I went back to work when dd was 4 months (we needed the money) and it was eerily as though nothing had changed. Everyone at work treated me as if nothing was different, much in the same way I imagine men get treated once they have a baby.

I think if you have a very independent lifestyle, a good career and those are things you've worked hard for then giving it up at the drop of a hat would be a huge shock.

By going back to work fairly quickly, my life felt like it just carried on where it stopped just before I had had dd.

I think it's a mistake that people think they have to 'stop' their lives and have to stop going out, stop their career, stop going out for dinner. Men don't stop those things when they have children so I don't really know why women feel they should too?

[Bonsoir]

foxinsocks - one baby is very portable, IME. It's when you have a baby and toddler that the logistics of life with children get much harder, I think.

Of course, if you have older stepchildren, you have ready made childcare, which also helps!

[compo]

It's not the same though because you can't go for a drink after work, have to get home do all the childcare things that you didn't before, take time off when they're sick etc etc

[foxinsocks]

but you can compo, you just have to make sure you've negotiated with a partner first (if you have one - if not then I appreciate that it is significantly harder!). It's not easy, I know, but it is possible, just harder. I doubt there are many men who have a baby and then completely stop going out for a drink after work. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just want to point out that there is another way. I think a lot of mothers let guilt overwhelm them.

Lol Bonsoir, yes very true. I had just under 15 months between mine which was thoroughly insane looking back on it but I did it deliberately as I wasn't much good at the baby phase so thought it better to get it over and done with in one go !

[juneau]

This post really struck a chord as I think we all feel like this, at least on occasion. I found the first two years with my DS really, really hard and I still feel like a non-person because I'm a SAHM and it just isn't all valued in our society.

Not that I'm itching to go back to work. I had a job before I had him and sometimes I enjoyed it, but I can't say I miss work. I miss having my own money, I miss the intellectual challenge, and for a while I missed my colleagues, but actually I never really liked working.

What I miss is the freedom to do as I please. I miss the fun my DH and I used to have before we had kids - lovely holidays to places we wanted to go, lie ins, being able to go to museums and exhibitions, long, boozy lunches or dinners, in other words all things every parent misses.

We just had a hideous week's holiday with our 3-year-old. We were all sleeping in one hotel room, none of us was getting enough sleep, he was a nightmare in almost every restaurant we went to, despite us ordering one course and eating it as fast as we could so we could get out before he kicked off. The problem is that his idea of heaven is several hours spent at a play centre - which is any adult's idea of hell.

I'm looking forward to him (and his soon-to-be-born sibling), being of an age where we can all go and do civilised things and our life returns to something resembling normal. My mother tells me this is when your last child is approx. 5 years old. Roll on 2016 ...

[MarshaBrady]

We all want a bit of freedom I think.

Freedom from work, to work

or school run

or freedom to work at home (in my case).

Not everyone will have same needs. But I don't think being maternal comes in to it. Although being depressed will reduce the ability to be maternal if that makes sense.

[MarshaBrady]

I must admit I didn't get down due to having children but I did feel trapped wr to family I had married into and had to deal with. Unfortunately.

I am not making the same mistake with second and have been fine and happy trundling around.

Our circumstances are so different aren't they.

[gloyw]

BadGround, I think that's such a clear and well written post - I apologise if that sounds like I'm giving you marks for an essay, but I think that articulating feelings about motherhood that don't fall into an easily available 'template' is actually very hard. Thank you for sharing it, I think it takes balls. (ditto twosoups).

I don't think you are a monster at all. The choices we have available to us as women today, if we are biologically able to have children, are still very new. No other generation before us has been in our position.

As others have said, it may be that you aren't a 'baby person', and that you may find something of a return to the life you enjoyed when your DS is older. Or, and I guess this is more likely, your life will evolve in a new direction, but you will still be more satisfied than you are now.

My mother always said she couldn't stand babies, and only started to have an enjoyable day to day life when we could walk, talk, and bugger off to school for a few hours each day. And now we are all adults, she's having a whale of a time as a SAGA lout. (I don't mean to imply you will have to wait 20 years to live a life you are happy with, btw).

I think for a woman to remain voluntarily childless is still seen as something very strange by society in general. As someone who had a DS in their late 30s, the biological clock issue hung over me - what if I didn't try to have children? Would I regret it? etc. The fear of getting into late 40s, and thinking, shit, I wish I'd had children is very strong. But of course, that fear doesn't mean it IS the right thing to do.

I think for well educated career women in their 30s, the life change to being a mother is such an abrupt change, especially if much of our lives, identities, social world etc is associated with work. I don't think I have anything more useful to say, apart from I wish we talked about these things more, and not in a Daily Mail 'burn the selfish modern witches' way.

[mumonahottinroof]

I think having a child, for most, is like dying and being reborn. Overnight your old life and its trappings go out the window - every freedom you took for granted is gone. Plus I found you lose a heap of friends and make an entirely new set.

It is much more fun once they're older, can talk properly, you can share the same interests - watch the same films, perhaps go to a museum together, go out for a meal.

My youngest is nearly 4 and I'd say I'm just getting used to my new life.

[pickledsiblings]

OP, I understand and can identify with many of your thoughts and feelings:

"I miss my relationship with my partner. I miss what we did together. I miss being able to walk out the front door of my own bloody house without a second thought. I miss having the money to spend on the odd nice thing. I miss having a house full of our nice, beautiful, adult things. I miss being able to ponder freely over my career options."

Your relationship with your partner may be what gave you the confidence to take a risk and become a mum.

What you did together was no doubt multi-faceted and the really important things that you did together you will hold on to.

Walking out your own front door without a second thought. All it takes is a burglary to shatter that comfort.

I suppose what I'm saying is that a bit of ill fortune and the things that you miss would still have been gone, baby or no baby.

There is no conspiracy. Friends of mine told me that it 'changes your life' and the look in their eyes said it all. It does - you just have to make the most of it. Rebuild, reconfigure, reinvent, not regret .

[Bonsoir]

"Overnight your old life and its trappings go out the window - every freedom you took for granted is gone."

Personally I found it pretty liberating to be able to set my own agenda all day long!

[mumonahottinroof]

Yes, it obviously does depend on the individual - and the life they had before and the kind of baby and then toddler you have, a lot of variables. Some love it and some don't, unfortunately as the OP discovered, it's not for everyone and you can't try before you buy.

[marl]

Such a reassuring thread - thanks! Lots of you are saying that 'things get better'. On the other hand I am dreading the 'as they get older and I can't pack them off to bed and then get my own time' or 'converse with them fine using only a bit of my brain because really I'm thinking about other stuff to amuse myself'..I'm fine with the baby and toddler on this basis and being able to breathe with my two days a week work, but I'm finding my demanding 9 year old impossible to be with. I can honestly say I enjoy his company rarely and he would not be my choice of someone to spend the day with as it means I can't make any decisions without negotiating everything with him! And a few weeks ago when friends wanted theirs and our 9 year old to stay up with us for the evening while we were on holiday I clearly had a face like thunder and looked like a total bitch no doubt.

[longgrasswhispers]

Just my two pennies worth - I personally think that one of the reasons people feel the way the OP does is because parenting these days is an awful lot harder than it used to be for the simple reason that we no longer feel comfortable about 'letting the children out to play'. When I was small (pre age 8) I remember going out with my younger sister for HOURS at a time. My mother had literally no idea where we were. This was considered normal back in the 1970s. Had we had an accident, it would have been a 'tragedy'. Nowadays, however, if a parent did the same, and the children had an accident, she would probably find herself in court for 'neglect'.

People also used to put their children in a pram and 'leave them at the bottom of the garden' to cry!! We'd never dream of doing that now.

My grandmother used to be able to park the buggy (with the child in it) outside a shop and go in and have a good old browse without any worries at all - nowadays, we have to take the child in with us, which can make browsing rather stressful (!!) so we never really have a minute's peace.

It's no-one's fault - everyone has been so frightened by all these stories of abductions etc, - but it IS making parenting harder.

Look at all these indoor soft-play areas - these have only sprung up since parents are no longer willing to release their children into the street to play.

Anyway - that's it really. Hope life gets a bit more enjoyable soon, OP.