*deep breath* I regret having children.

[BadGround]

Ive namechanged clearly... even so, writing the title took me about 20 minutes... but it still doesn't sound wrong.

I regret having my ds. He is 15 months old now, and while I'd go to the ends of the Earth for him, there is not a day goes by that I don't kick myself.

It is not PND. I am not depressed or 'down'. No doubt someone will try to convince me it is, just like unhappy victorian ladies were labelled as mentally ill when they were desperately unhappy with the lives society gave them. I am perfectly happy with my life, or rather, I was. My son is perfectly lovely, and my dh is extremely helpfull. I adore them both. And no, I wasn't pressured into it, either. I was in love with the idea. I thought it was what I wanted. Society told me it was what I wanted ,right?

I would never give up my ds, and I look forward to giving him a loving environment to grow and learn... but if there was a way to reverse time, and politely, painlessly engineer him out of existence, I would. Honestly.

It never occurred to me that I had any choice otherwise. Nobody ever tells you that you have a choice. I miss my old life intensely, and the thought that I had every right and opportunity to keep it that way makes me sick. It's got to the point that these thoughts don't make me feel guilty anymore.

I miss my relationship with my partner. I miss what we did together. I miss being able to walk out the front door of my own bloody house without a second thought. I miss having the money to spend on the odd nice thing. I miss having a house full of our nice, beautiful, adult things. I miss being able to ponder freely over my career options.

Honestly, truthfully, does anyone feel the same? I don't mean those who are unfortunate enough to have depression... does anyone actually endure cold, hard regret? Even just sometimes?

I don't want help. I don't even know what I want. I don't think I could describe myself as feeling "desperate". I guess i just want to feel like I'm not a hideous monster all on my own.

I know I'll probably get a million identical replies of "It's sometimes hard... but I wouldn't change them for the world!!!". Although, yeah, I'm happy for you.

Please don't hate me, is what I'm really trying to say. I actually consider myself quite a loving person.

Don't really know how to end this. Over to you.

[mazfah]

Oh how I understand. Just this morning I said to my mum that if I didn't think it'd give DS an abandonment complex I'd leave and never come back. Some days I want to do something to get myself sectioned/arrested so I can have a break.

I'd go as far as to say I hate my life and my husband hates our DS. Everything is really, really shit.

[BettyButterknife]

This is such a relief hearing that there are more people out there who feel the same way.

Babies are really boring, I think. It is just hard work, and the lack of contrast is the thing that gets to me. I spend all day every day doing the same boring, mundane tasks, like the shittest, most boring factory job or something. Poo, food, sleep, washing, play, tv, poo, sick, food, sleep, bath, food, sleep and on and on and on. I have become very dull as a result. I don't have anything to say.

No weekends
No sick days
No holidays

We are slaves. No wonder we feel so fucking miserable. Worst part is we supposedly chose this for ourselves. I don't agree - I signed a contract that wasn't explained to me. I didn't read the small print. The EU would find this job illegal!

[GetDownYouWillFall]

I think you will get your life back again when DS is older. It is really really hard in these early years and easy to feel that your world has been shattered and nothing will ever be the same again. When he's older, you will be able to walk out the door again and you will be able to go on lovely holidays and have lovely grown up stuff in your house. Remember the MN motto "this too shall pass".

[ronshar]

Mazfah.
That sounds so sad. You are really struggling. Have you got help around you?

[AnnieLobeseder]

Another one here! Although I think in my case it's just a case of the grass being greener! I find myself wishing my DH away, along with the kids. I long for a free and unrestricted life as a single person! But if I were single, you can bet I wouldn't appreciate it and would wish for a loving partner and a family!

I dream of taking off for days, weeks, months - no-one to worry about but myself! I'm a solitary person and having to be so involved with the DDs is sometimes very overwhelming.

Work is a godsend. As are my evenings out at choir/gym.

Work and hobbies - they are key!

Anyway, as others have said, it does get better. Once you can go out without having to pack a large suitcase, once they can talk and are more human, it's much better.

Don't feel guilty - you can't help feeling the way you do. Not everyone is cut out to be all maternal and a Precious Moments Mummy.

Do you work? If not, I'd suggest you get your career back on track as a big first step towards feeling better. It certainly cleared up a lot of my depression and anger.

[SueWhite]

Read 'Notes on a Scandal'! It will make you feel better, honest. I've wanted a proper family, with people around all the time, for as long as I can remember. In the future you will have children and grandchildren around you. I think life would be quite empty without them.

Mazfah, why does your husband hate your child?

[musicposy]

The first thing I want to say is hang in there. When your children are this young, it feels like it will last forever, but the years will pass faster than you can imagine and one day you will blink and have your life back, I promise. it really isn't forever and it gets easier in small stages. I was someone who enjoyed the early years but even I look back (my girls are 11 and 15 now) and wonder how on earth I put up with it when they were young - they just demand every second of your time and your life changes unimaginably. They grow up fast, though, even though it doesn't feel it now, and every year is a step more freedom for you.

A friend of mine felt just like you do. She had only ever planned to have one child and ended up with twins. She hated the early years, truly wished she'd never had them, wanted her old life back more than she could possibly say. She had trouble feeling anything for them except huge regret that she'd ever made the decision to have them.

They got to maybe 4, and she started enjoying them more. Once they became able to talk, more independent, she found herself not regretting them so much. They are 12 now and she adores them and is so, so thankful she had them both. She is an amazing mum and her twins are very happy and balanced.

Just because you feel like this now doesn't mean you always will. Don't beat yourself up over it - feeling like this is more common than you think.

[AnnieLobeseder]

I think there's a huge myth out there that all women are naturally mothers, and just want to spend every waking, and even sleeping, moment with their precious bundles.

But while there are some women like that, I doubt they're the majority. I should imagine that they myth has been happily perpetuated by the patriarchy to keep women at home, out of the workplace and subservient to them. "But all women love their babies and want to be home with them. Why do you want to go to work instead of being with your baby? What's wrong with you?"

For the most part, once the very early days are over, men get to carry on with their pre-baby lives. This is considered normal.

Women need to reclaim more of that for themselves too, and not feel the slightest guilt for it.

Excuse this turning into a feminist rant!!

[Jynxed]

I know exactly what you mean, and once when my DCs were small I walked out (in the middle of the ironing) and sat on the beach sobbing for a couple of hours (don't worry, DH was at home!). I really felt I couldn't go back home, and fantasized about running away and setting myself up in a flat on my own under a false name. Roll on 10 years and my kids are now fascinating teens and pre-teens, views and tastes of their own, lots of great friends round all the time, bringing life into the house rather than sucking the life out of it (as I felt that night on the beach). I think some of us are better with older children. Hang on in there, and try to get the odd weekend away.

[AnnieLobeseder]

As I frequently tell anyone who will listen, babies are yukky!

[LindsayWagner]

Poor OP. I really sympathise. But remember also that time would have passed with or without your ds. Your relationship with OH would have changed. You would still have got older, been less comfortable in the environments that you enjoyed pre-ds, and that discomfort would have increased over time.

In a short while (I know it doesn't seem possible) you will be in a position to do more of the old stuff. But you'll find it less appealing than you did, and when ds is 9 like mine (I blinked) you'll feel, I really believe, that life is better with than without.

[atyourservice]

I don't regret having DS but I really resent the pressure we are under to have children.I was talking to 3 childfree women the other day the subject of having children came up and I wanted to try to get accross to them how motherhood can be grim and they shouldn't be too sad about not having children but I'm worried I sounded patronising.

I knew things would be hard work before I had my DS but I didn't realise just how relentess it would be. I think it is really important to be able to express these feelings.

Like nearly everyone else though I can say things get better as they get older. For me 18 months to 2.5 was the worst. Now I can have fun with my boy.

[SardineQueen]

I won't add another story about how I feel as it's been covered well by lots of others!

What gets me through is:

• That I'm still adjusting to the new life. I had DD1 at 33 and I had lived by myself for years and was happy, successful and work and highly independent. Even now, 4 years later, I feel as if I haven't adjusted yet. But I hope that one day (soon) I will!
  
• I was never broody or felt drawn to babies, so it's not surprising that I'm not gushing over my own. I look after them carefully as that is my job but I don't enjoy it. However DD1 is 3.5 and is getting easier and better company every day. We have had some good trips out just the two of us (only up the road but still). Again, I look forward to the day that DD2 is this age and DD1 is 5 - it will be so much better. I can't handle the unpredictability and illogical approaches of toddlers, the potty training and the traipsing stuff all over the house, all that stuff, it does my head in
  
  Basically I feel that if I can just stick it out for another 2 years everything will start to get better.

[SardineQueen]

Should have put a on the end of my thread there.

[NormanTheForeman]

It will, sardineQueen. I found all those things really hard (and I only had one child), but now I really enjoy him.

[SardineQueen]

I wish there was more honesty about this stuff.

There's so much pre-natal depression, post-natal depression, other mental health problems. And that's before you even get to the people who are fine but just don't like it

All the messages we get are about how fab it all is.

Don't forget that in the 70s all the mummies were on valium and before that they were all drunk. (That may be a slight exaggeration). Rich people (as someone pointed out) have always got other people to do it for them.

Unfortunately these days mummy being dosed up to the gills on happy pills or pissed as a fart at 11am is frowned upon. We're not even allowed to smoke any more. Goddamit

[NormanTheForeman]

Lol, SardineQueen, I actually really worried about a lot of what motherhood was like when I was pregnant. I actually think my worries were quite realistic. But most other people thought I was being ridiculously pessimistic!

[undercovamutha]

I'd say it took me about 4 years not to feel bitter about many many losses of freedom and 'self'. However, there are still lots of things that make me feel cross and regretful.

I still hate it that when I get in from somewhere, I can't just dump my shopping and slump in front of the telly like I used to. Instead I have to spend an hour putting coats away, hurriedly getting drinks, cooking tea etc.

I still DREAM of the lazy sunday afternoons of old, watching old Columbo episodes, and enjoying a lazy bath.

I crave being able to pop out for milk and bread without it being a half an hour event involving bags, coats, tantrums....

But it HAS got better. I have aclimatised (sp) IYSWIM, and it all seems quite normal now. And its getting better - life is changing from 100% DCs 0% DH and I, to more like 90% DCs and 10% DH and I! There is light at the end of the tunnel.

[reddaisy]

I miss thinking my own thoughts, I am seriously not even sure I remember what that is like.

If I am not thinking about something I "must" be doing for DD or what I need to get at Tesco for the family's tea or responding to her then I am in a fog of tiredness getting from place to place. I used to daydream and just think about things but I don't have the headspace for that anymore.

I am always telling childless friends to have that "big" holiday now because they won't get a chance after children, or not to have a quiet night in, go out and dance and dash off to London at the drop of a hat.

I have one friend who throws great parties but she never gives more than a couple of days notice which makes it impossible to get a babysitter so I always try to get her to give me more notice but no luck so far, it just isn't on their radar.

[Ragwort]

There was another thread about this a few months ago - can't find it unfortunately - but it is such a relief to know that other people feel the same way as it is seriously the last 'taboo' to admit that you wished you didn't have children.

I find the loss of independence incredibly difficult - I don't want to go out clubbing or anything like that (not that there is anything wrong if you want to do that ) - but for example just to go out for a walk - on your own - it is NOT the same if you have to take a buggy/toddler/reluctant child with you - just to be spontaneous and not to have to spend yet another miserable Saturday afternoon watching football practice in the rain!!

The tediousness of doing 'worthy' things at weekends and after school; the lack of 'adult' discussions and relationships - not sure I agree that it does get better - it hasn't yet (10 years on) - I hardly dare mention that I am really looking forward to my DS leaving home !! I mourn the loss of my relationship with my DH - it has changed considerably - he is a fantastic father and DS and he have such a wonderful bond which is great but I miss what we had as a couple. Apologies - I know this sounds horribly self-indulgent .

[reddaisy]

undercovamutha - I don't like those percentages!

I miss Sundays too. I miss waking up on the weekend and deciding what I fancy doing.

I had today and I've got Monday off work and instead of looking forward to my long weekend, part of me was dreading it. Everyone at work was saying: "Oooh, lucky you." And I was thinking: "Not really. It is easier being at work!"

[NormanTheForeman]

My ds is 10, and although I love his company (he is really interesting) I still miss the lack of adult company and conversation (think that's why I spend so long on MN actually). I do go out one evening a week (to play my clarinet in a band) and help out in ds's school library twice a week, it's not the same as it was pre ds.

[BadGround]

Ragwort, please don't apologise for being "horribly self indulgent", I don't think you are! But you seem to have hit the nail on the head there, it's almost as if society doesn't expect us to have any wants once our lives are consumed with Baby Joy.

It's still one of society's biggest taboos to tell people that perhaps they would be better off without children. In the movies all the willfully childless characters are the bad guys, and babies make everything better etc...

There should be a way to get this kind of information out there! I'm not talking about convincing people out of having children altogether, just a way of making it common knowledge that your life WILL change, and in what ways. I mean, sure, everyone jokes about those charming little inconveniences, but most of the population is utterly in the dark about the process of permenant transition from Human to Parent...

...perhaps I should write a book...

Thanks for all the support, mums. It's exciting to think about all the possibilities for the future, and look forward to developing a relationship with my little guy. As for developing a personality... he seems like he's currently trying his best to develop one, with all the noises he makes! :)

Much love. Who knows, maybe we can make a difference. x

[SardineQueen]

[twosoups]

Wonderful thread. Makes me feel hugely better reading this. I have two DD aged 5 and 1 and I find it hideous.

I adore them, don't regret having had them (would do exactly the same again) but all the same, I feel my life is a constant torture that DH could never comprehend (he's a great dad but has no idea how hideous it all is for me).

I hate the fact that every day begins with the sound of crying. Even an alarm clock beeping would make my life marginally more enjoyable. I hate the routine. I hate strapping and unstrapping children into cars, picking up clothes, wiping floors, washing hair, dropping off and picking up at nursery/school/rainbows/dancing.

I hate having to cook meals that will be fussed over and picked at. I hate the whining and moaning when you're driving in the car. I hate sticky hands on my clothes. I hate beign contradicted and questioned all the time.

I hate watching childrens' TV. I hear it in my sleep. I hate glue on the table, glitter on the floor, muddy trainers, toddlers removing their socks and shoes in the car so you have to put them back on at the end of the journey. The tiredness and bleakness of it all.

I was 34 when I had DD1. I'd been to university, I had a career, we had great holidays, spare cash, we could go out of the front door in the evening, we went to the gym, we walked, the car was clean, we listened to radio 4.

But I tell you what I really regret - I regret that the generation above us don't give it a thought. My parents' generation had children in their twenties - they'd never had a life to mourn. I really wish they would try to understand. I have no relatives and no support, with the exception of my in-laws. I have tried so hard to reach out for their help but they are deaf to it. My MIL visits once a week and stays for an hour, but only since she retired. When she had a part time job, they could go a whole month or longer without visiting. She's bored now, so the grandchildren are a welcome diversion once a week.

At the moment they are gettign some winter sun in the canaries. They needed the break, apparently.