Help with dealing with depressed family

[SnotandBothered]

Im not sure where to start and this may be a bit disjointed - sorry.

My mother - I now realise - has always had behavioural issues. She has always been pretty toxic - mostly to me (only child) and my dad. She has always been either crying hysterically, screaming and name calling, vile and rude or clingy and childlike - never just 'normal'.

A few months ago a minor illness seemed to tip her over the edge. Her short term memory has deteriorated rapidly in e space of six months to the point where she can't recall a conversation had five minutes previously, goes to shop but can't remember what for, bought my DD the same item for Christmas x 4 and then cried when she realised etc. She is also even more aggressive than usual and has been vile to me over Christmas - calling me awful things in front of my DCs and walking out on Christmas day in a foul
temper for no reason.

I have attended four GP appointments with her and the GP believes that she is depressed and this is causing the memory loss and mood swings. The chemist supplies her medication in a weekly chart sheet with the days in bister packs but she can't seem to follow the course. My DH has been driving to her house several times a week to check her medcation and it's always in a muddle. We can't leave it to my Dad as he (like me) is regarded as the enemy and she won't let him near her or her tablets and screams at him, lies and hides them.

My DH cannot sustain this responsibility and i am struggling with the 6 or 7 phone calls a day whe we just talk round in circles. She calls, we talk, she says I'm lying and there is nothing wrong, I remind her that we love her and want to help and that we've had the conversation twice already that day, she tells me we haven't spoken, she calls me names and slams the phone down, she forgets we've spoken and an hour later we do it all again.

I now have her best (and only remaining) friend calling me everyday to tell me how 'mad' mum is and that she keeps forgetting plans they've made or things they've agreed - even though they spoke an hour earlier.

I did call the GP and tell her i was concerned things were getting worse and she referred mum to s specialist who agreed with the deprerssion diagnosis but she still seems to be getting worse not better.

On top of this my DH who has been fab, is very stressed at work and also has a a lot of childhood issues. Like my mum he is too stubborn (and selfish actually) to get professional help so he drinks every night and becomes very verbally abusive and unpleasant. It's like living with Jekyll and Hyde.

I know they are both ill in their own ways. Both refuse to 'talk' to a professional about the issues that have brought them here and chose instead to use me as a kind of therapy (my mum is always telling me how she hates my father, should never have married him etc, and when DH drinks he rants similar things about me :(. In the day (sober) he apologises, but it still hurts.

I am tired. I want them to get better but don't know what else i can do. I feel my DCs are starting to suffer by witnessing such volatile mood swings and hearing me be insulted by my mum and DH - I just don't feel equipped to cope. Any advice would be welcome and sorry this post is so long and full of typos.

It's good that you have a plan about your mum.

Once the dust settles you really should move on to some counselling (especially relationship and/or alcohol related).

Just because your husband can give something up, doesn't mean that something else didn't take it's place. I could be wrong but did the cigarette intake go up after the drugs stopped, and the booze intake go up after giving up the cigs?

If so, addictive personalities do this. My friends's husband swore he would never take pills (E) again after she threatened to leave him. He used to go missing for a day or two at a time. He kept that promise (but now he just does lots of coke and comes home at 5am every Friday ) He also gave up smoking for their new baby, but drinks more instead, which then always leads him to drugs more.
He also cannot (or rather will not) recognise and deal with the childhood issues that got him here, and expects her to do the dutiful, long suffering wife routine because that's what his mum did. I wish I could persuade her to break the pattern but she allows him to treat her this way. It's so sad because she is/was the brightest, bubbliest girl but his needs always take precedence and it's kind of made her disappear.

I do believe that unless you are in the grip of a highly abusive, brainwashing relationship that people can only treat you in the way you let them treat you, especially now you have opened your eyes to his behaviour and the damage it does to you and the kids.

Once you've stood up to mum I really, really hope you can do the same with your husband.

Either by setting the firm boundaries we all on this thread agree on, or by leaving him to it for a while to see what life really is like, empty and alone except for a four-pack of beer.

Snotandbothered, I do hope that your appointment goes well. Lobster's posts are very insightful and wise. I think her point about telling the doctor that you have taken as much as you can and would now like him/her to organise care which does not involve you is a good step.

You have been very brave to post here as I think it is maybe hard to admit even to yourself that you know things need to change, and you are not content to put up with this situation indefinitely.

With regard to your DH, my partner had a gambling addiction for years and he refused to seek help. In the end I attended a part of Gamanon for partners and found it to be very helpful. They suggested that it is almost impossible to 'make' an addict give something up unless they themselves really want to. This is something I now believe too, and in your husband's case it appears that he too is able to give other things up but only when he truly wants to.

Realising that I could not directly 'make' DP give up was a positive step for me as it took the pressure off me to 'help him help himself'. It made me look at what I could do to protect myself and our son as a priority.

Galanon never made me feel I should leave DP (something I was concerned about), and meeting others in the same boat was so helpful (not unlike 'speaking' to other mothers on here who are in the same boat with their DCs).

In my case, DP eventually hit rock bottom. The scales fell from his eyes at this point and he admitted he had a major problem. He was never the type to ask for help but at this point he willingly went to GamAnon and has been in recovery for 2 years.

It was like as soon as he finally admitted he had a terrible problem, things started to improve.

I apologise for hijacking your thread but I wanted you to know how helpful I found the support of an AlAnon type agency and that there is hope and light and the end of the tunnel.

Wishing you lots of strength.

Are you still there snotandbothered?

How did the appointment go?

Hello all. Yes, we had mums doctors appointment today. It was not perfect but progress (I think). Doc asked mum how she was feeling/coping to which she replied "I'm absolutely fine, no problems at all". Doc then looked my mum in they eye and said "I am now going to ask your daughter the same question, is that ok?" to which mum shrugged. I told doc that mum was not fine at all and i was very concerned. I told my mum that i was gong to be Frank as i wanted her to get the help she needs and asked if she wanted to leave the room or stay and listen and of course she chose to stay which made it harder, but I was v. brave and told doc everything: terrible memory, mood swings, tears, aggression etc and i also said that i felt mum was not co-operating as she is naturally stubborn I cant believe that i atually said all those things!!

Anyway long nd shrt, GP is going to speak to a colleague and we have to go back in a week. CT scan results still not in and mum not talking to me other to tell me i aa vindictive disloyal bitch who is only after her inheritance (but nor surpsie there)

Last to nights with DH unpleasant. In fact late last night, worse than unpleasant - awful actually. I don't have the energy to summarise it all now but he was vile and unkind and this morning he was nice as pie until i reminded hin of the night before, at which point instead of apologising, he got very defensive and said he is reacting to my constant nagging. I told him that was utter rubbish and to not call me all day. He tried once - calling being lovely, trying to brush it under the carpet but I said 'no'. Then later i found out he spent ages on the phone with my mum checking to see how she was after her appointment etc.

So today she thinks he is golden but they bo think i am a selfish "only child"

I just want to run away. Just to have neither of them critising me and calling me names would be heaven

Oh sweetheart, I know it's shit but people with certain problems are defensive to the last, and will make you the bad guy rather than admit their own behaviour.

You were really brave, well done. Am a bit at your husband being all lovely to your mum when he himself claims she is "disturbed" and the reason you are "selfish"...

Keep on keeping on.

p.s. sorry for quick post, am about to eat and just wanted to let you know been thinking about you. Will check later/tomorrow.

hmm maybe you need to focus on thinking how you can "run away" - even if it is only or a weekend /week with the DC. get some space and distance away from H and mother. tme to think...

Thinking of you snotandbothered. Hope you are ok.

You were very brave at the doctors, your mum can't see it but your honesty was the best approach for her as well as your sanity.

Hello All

Thanks for checking in on me.

Cestlavie I do think about how I might get away for a day or two but TBH I just don't see how or where I would go. There have been so many times I wished I had a bigger family so that i could stay with a sister or Aunt or something but it's always just been me, mum, dad and now my DH and DCs. I just don't have the money or the gumption to check myself into a hotel. I actually have fantasies (not sure that's the right word) about being ill (but not desperately) so taht I have to be in hospital for a few days. Just so that people don't shout and are kind - pathetic, I know.

DH is still being completely unpredictable. It is honestly like living with two very different people. I can't believe how much a couple of beers can change him (we are are not even talking hardened spirit drinker.

I have found out when and where my local Al Anon meeting is Mondays. I am not sure that I can get there tonight - either mentally or logistically but I think it would be a good start.

Thank you all again, espeically Lotster :)

Oh well done you - psyche yourself up for next week then. Will you say where you're going?

I remember that same feeling of wanting a few days in hospital, when I had PND, just wishing you could just check out and leave it to someone else for a while...
If you can't get away as suggested before, maybe find little ways to treat yourself - an occasional massage, a night out and overnight stay with a girlfriend, a candlelit bath even?!
I used to find when things were overwhelming, going swimming at a quiet time at the pool (usually late eve) helped me switch off.

Please keep posting, we're here for you. If it helps, people with more relatives can't speak to them frankly half the time anyway!

Sounds like you did a cracking job at the doctor's - that was very brave of you.

As for your husband, what can I say? I truly hope that you can get some peace. At least to think about things. I think Al Anon sounds like a very good idea. If you can't give yourself a couple of hours to try and combat all the crap that's getting thrown at you, what can you do?

You are all so kind.

For some refinding am ffinding it harder and harder to motivate myself to do something about this situation.

Today, for example, I had 2 whole hours to myself. I had planned to call Relate to arrange a session for just me and get someone to come and fix the dishwasher. When the time came, both tasks just felt overwhelmingly hard. I used to have a stressful job in a competitive industry and juggle it with the house, a social life and laugh at least once a day. Now I can't even face opening a bill (not because we have no money - although of course its always a juggle) but because whatever the bill is for, it will be wrong and my fault. E.g. "I've told you, you need to change energy supplier" or "you could cut down on food bills if you cooked more meals that you could freeze". Both true, but i don't have the eneregy to do either and i am just so tired of being 'told off' all the time.

So today I stared into space, looked at Mumsnet and fielded about 5 calls from my mum and two texts from DH and then time was up and i had achieved nothing.

I can't imagine ever achieving anything ever again actually. How I am going to get myslef to an Al Anon meeting and avod telling DH where I am going, I will never know.

Also, it's hard for me to get out in the evenings because DH has gone from being one of the most and gregarious people i know to anti-social to the point of
rudeness. And to go without him means i leave him at home where he will drink and fall asleep to the point where i worry in case. dCs call for him.

oh ts is just rubbish. I can't believe i am being so wet but just can't seem to deal with any of it.

Thank you again for listening to my pointless moaning. I know how frustrating it is to offer advice to people who don't seem to be able to follow through on anything.

Your moaning is not pointless so let's nip that in the bud lady! You have (I'm going to be blunt here) a mentally ill mother, an alcoholic husband and two small children to care for, and you are fielding shit from all sides so please, stop putting yourself down. If you were pointlessly moaning you wouldn't have had the responses you've had from us 6 or so other MN'ers.

It sounds like you could be getting depressed, or at the very least, run down. Are you eating properly? Sleeping ok?

I know you don't want to leave him in charge next Monday, or start thinking about excuses (say you're going swimming as part of a new healthy January type-thing? Or a meal with a girlfriend with a problem?) but if you don't get some real support very soon then you're in danger of checking out. This won't do the kids any good! Probably a lot worse than leaving them on Monday for an hour or so.

Maybe he will surprise you by not drinking on Monday when he knows he's in charge, you're usually there all the time allowing him to do whatever. If you're really worried, hide a load of it before going out but that would probably cause a row TBH...

I hate to think of how lonely you're feeling at the moment. You need to make your world bigger at the moment, not allow them to keep making it smaller. Please, please go to the meeting. It will be hard. Feel the fear and do it anyway. We'll be thinking of you.

Lotster - you have hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what it feels like. My world is shrinking and shrinking and in a minute all the things i used to have - job, happy marriage, fun, friends and most notably - a joy in life - will feel like they belonged to someone else, and all that will be left in my shrunken world will be Day:Mother, Night:DH. Again, thank god for DCs

I know that sounds melodramatic, but your phrasing really struck a chord. This has all become so utterly consuming that I can't even remember what it is i like to do. Just feel so joyless.

I am eating really badly which is one of the reasons i have no energy. Skipping breakfast and lunch, snacking on high-carb/sugar snacks like toast all day to give me a boost, then eating my supper far too late as DH getting inlet due to work.

I need to eat better, I need to get to that meeting on Monday - i need a kick up the arse! Please keep kicking

Better believe it! I will.

Porridge for brekkie too? Or is that pushing it?
Good for littlies too...

Thank. You. So much

Hi snotandbothered, hippo head here (namechanged). I am thinking of you. I really hope that you find the Al Anon meeting on Monday helpful.

It seems unfair to put pressure on yourself to go, when you are already juggling so much. However, if the logistics are manageable I hope you can make it.

I too can identify with the desire for a hospital stay- for some peace and a little TLC. I have seen others on MN say this too so it's a more common fantasy than you might think.
Please don't put yourself down, give yourself a pat on the back, (or a sneaky hug), for holding things together under such trying circumstances.
I imagine it's temping to listen to your inner critic when your mum and DH are in the habit of criticising you. Believe me though you are not to blame for ANY of this.

Hi again SandB, so do you can swing it to go along tomorrow?

How's the weekend been?

Hi all

Thanks for checking in on me :)

So an update re: Mum. You were all right of course, based on her CT scan, she has been diagnosed with 'moderate' Vascular Dementia. I am torn between misery and relief that it can now be explained and managed (to a point). She is being denial/forgetful about her diagnosis but I am going to cut her some slack - she must be quite frightened. I have read up on it, so kind of know what to expect but will just have to see how things go.

I am trying to get to Al Anon tonight but there is a bit of a problem with DH getting home on time (he doesn't know I am even planning to go out so not 'orchestrated'). If he is on time, I will defo be going, I have psyched myself up - if not then I will try again next Monday.

Weekend was pretty grim. Mum surprisingly jolly (by her standards) for most of it, although the worm did turn by late Sunday. DH started off lovely - told me to lie in, popped round to Mum's to check she was up to date with Meds, played with DCs etc. He then decided to have a beer about an hour after I'd been up (midday) which is a very early start for him. He also took a couple of calls from his Mum and Brother (guaranteed to tip him into a dark place) And lo and behold he became extrememly unpleasant and was horrible for the whole weekend - give or take.

I actually think his 'moods' are getting worse and worse but he still refuses to do anything about them - see doctor / stop drinking. I was reading through an old thread on the Relationships board here (all 37 pages) on Emotional Abuse, and although doesn't tick quite all the boxes, any more than my mum does - between them, they absolutely do

When I think about the things that are said and done on quite a regular basis now, I am a horrified, gutted and ashamed of what I have come to think of as 'normal' behaviour.

I am so scared that things will only ever get worse.

I asked H to sleep in teh spare room on Sat night. I have never asked before. His response was "Absolutely. A night without you. Fucking joy"

It's all so :(

Well you must be relieved to have an answer re: mum. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a bit hard for you because it sort of takes away her culpability when she's vile to you. Like you just have to take it because "she's ill".

I only say that because I have been trying a very long time to develop a thicker skin against my mum's insults and manipulations when she is drinking, to be told by my dad the same thing. It's hard to go without an apology for behaviour ten times worse than you would normally take from anyone else isn't it?

I admire your bravery, and heart for feeling sorry for her because it must be frightening for her, as you say.

Whilst there's not much you can do about your mum, you do have choices when it comes to your husband though don't you?

His behaviour you don't have to put up with. If you were to stay with him and let him slowly drive you and him down to the ground, who's benefit would it be for? I don't think yours, or your children's, so just his then... and he sounds miserable too.

It is all really sad, but if you make a stand to change things then maybe something good will come out of it, together or apart who knows as it would depend on his will to change or not - but it's got to be better than the way you are all feeling now isn't it?

Good luck tonight, really hope you get there.

Hi Snotandbothered. I do hope you made it to AlAnon, if not there is always next week. I don't know if they, or a similar organisation, have a helpline that you could call and speak to someone on? I called the gambling helpline 'Gamcare' once when things were very difficult with DP. I really had no idea what I wanted to say but was they were so so helpful and they knew exactly what to say- all i said was "hello" and burst into tears!! It was so good to speak to someone who understood. I just thought it might be something to look into in the short term if you are struggling to get to a meeting.

I am sorry to hear the news about your mum. I think you are sensible to take stock and see how things go for now while the news sinks in. Has any part of the health service offered any help? My grandma has vascular dimensia, and is 94 so needs a lot of care and social services have been brilliant and she gets three visits a day (Mum and I visit her daily too but we are both only children so the help is welcome). One thing I would say though is that we did have to ask for help, and tell them we could no longer manage alone. I realise its really tough as much of this depends on your mum accepting help if she needs it but it was just a thought.

I think Lobster's post was very wise regarding both your mum and DH.

Its such a shame that his moods have worsened at a time when you need support. These days, when he is not in a particularly bad mood is he nice to you? I am sorry if you have said already but I am not sure if there is generally a constant level of unpleasantness, or if inbetween the bad times he is nice?

It is a good idea to try to keep your sense of what is, and is not, normal in a relationship. That will help you decide, when you feel ready, what you want to do.

Not sure if my ramblings are helping!! I am thinking of you and wishing you plenty of strength.

Hello I'm just checking to see how you are?
That's a rough few days you've had. On top of God know how much more.noone could cope with all of that without support. I've typed this post about 3 times as I dont want to put more pressure on you. But I'm worried about you. I'm worried that you are being drained by these 2 people. Your h in particular. You know it's not acceptable, so how are you going to show him that his behaviour isn't acceptable? I really think you need support from someone and I second going to counseling on your own.

You there S&B? Starting to worry us now...x

Hello S&B I've been thinking about you a lot. I really hope you're OK.