Help with dealing with depressed family

[SnotandBothered]

Im not sure where to start and this may be a bit disjointed - sorry.

My mother - I now realise - has always had behavioural issues. She has always been pretty toxic - mostly to me (only child) and my dad. She has always been either crying hysterically, screaming and name calling, vile and rude or clingy and childlike - never just 'normal'.

A few months ago a minor illness seemed to tip her over the edge. Her short term memory has deteriorated rapidly in e space of six months to the point where she can't recall a conversation had five minutes previously, goes to shop but can't remember what for, bought my DD the same item for Christmas x 4 and then cried when she realised etc. She is also even more aggressive than usual and has been vile to me over Christmas - calling me awful things in front of my DCs and walking out on Christmas day in a foul
temper for no reason.

I have attended four GP appointments with her and the GP believes that she is depressed and this is causing the memory loss and mood swings. The chemist supplies her medication in a weekly chart sheet with the days in bister packs but she can't seem to follow the course. My DH has been driving to her house several times a week to check her medcation and it's always in a muddle. We can't leave it to my Dad as he (like me) is regarded as the enemy and she won't let him near her or her tablets and screams at him, lies and hides them.

My DH cannot sustain this responsibility and i am struggling with the 6 or 7 phone calls a day whe we just talk round in circles. She calls, we talk, she says I'm lying and there is nothing wrong, I remind her that we love her and want to help and that we've had the conversation twice already that day, she tells me we haven't spoken, she calls me names and slams the phone down, she forgets we've spoken and an hour later we do it all again.

I now have her best (and only remaining) friend calling me everyday to tell me how 'mad' mum is and that she keeps forgetting plans they've made or things they've agreed - even though they spoke an hour earlier.

I did call the GP and tell her i was concerned things were getting worse and she referred mum to s specialist who agreed with the deprerssion diagnosis but she still seems to be getting worse not better.

On top of this my DH who has been fab, is very stressed at work and also has a a lot of childhood issues. Like my mum he is too stubborn (and selfish actually) to get professional help so he drinks every night and becomes very verbally abusive and unpleasant. It's like living with Jekyll and Hyde.

I know they are both ill in their own ways. Both refuse to 'talk' to a professional about the issues that have brought them here and chose instead to use me as a kind of therapy (my mum is always telling me how she hates my father, should never have married him etc, and when DH drinks he rants similar things about me :(. In the day (sober) he apologises, but it still hurts.

I am tired. I want them to get better but don't know what else i can do. I feel my DCs are starting to suffer by witnessing such volatile mood swings and hearing me be insulted by my mum and DH - I just don't feel equipped to cope. Any advice would be welcome and sorry this post is so long and full of typos.

Sounds like dementia to me, depression quite common alongside it as person realises memory etc going.

What kind of assessment did Dr do?

A written test that highlighted the fact it was short term memory and she also had a CT scan (which presumably ruled out various physical conditions). I thought dementia but very sudden and rapid and the doctor keeps insisting she can 'recover' with anti-depressants?? I don't think I believe them

Oh dear. Sounds like an awful lot to cope with.

Has your doctor talked about dementia at all? It can make the sufferer angry and defensive when they can't remember things - sounds like she's feeling frightened and lashing out.

My mum can be a bit like this (wouldn't make such mistakes with presents but forgets conversations) and gets nasty and defensive. However hers is alcohol related dementia I think, plus I'm pretty sure she's NPD.

Do you have siblings to discuss this with? Share the burden a bit? She sounds like she can't cope and if she won't let your dad help you might need to get some extra help for her. Perhaps others here know something about this in terms of costs etc.

Do you think you chose a partner who has traits of her at all? I ask because you talk about bring insulted by both of them.

I think it largely depends on what is wrong with either of them as to how much (if at all) you can help them. If for example it was dementia with your mum shed need a lot of support.

Whilst I believe in looking after your family and also in "sickness and in health" vows, IME when it comes to alcohol and personality disorders however, it doesn't help anyone to hang around and take the abuse. A wake up call is usually needed.

Please put yourself and your children first, before this all makes mummy ill too.

X post whilst typing all that on my phone!

Thanks Lotser. No am only child so nobody to share with. Also my mum is an only child which is why, I think, she is so focussed on me.

I know you are right about putting DCs first - it's just very hard to remove yourself from a situation when basically the 'situation' is pretty much everyone you've got and you are in hours of daily dealing with both - mum and DH.

I wish there was one other family member to 'share' with.

I understand. I have half siblings via dad but am mum's only child. Plus she has pissed the majority of her siblings off with her ways. Currently my dad deals with (and enables) her and her demands but I dread there being a day when she looks to me to look after her because I know I can't be around her very much and keep my own marbles...

Sounds like you're very much more entrenched. Any close friend you can talk to about this? Especially those who know your mum or husband, to help with perspective?

Sound like you need to set some clear boundaries about what behaviour will and won't be tolerated, towards you, and in front of your children.

Thank you for just listening and taking the trouble to respond. I feel better just for saying it 'out loud' IYKWIM. Yes, probably I should talk to someone in RL. I will gave a think as to who that could be. I know I can't keep absorbing it - i am starting to feel very panicked and anxious about the future and also angry which is irrational and unfair.

No. Not fair on you, or the kids. You should be able to turn to your husband, but sounds like he has the monopoly on being down, and angry.

May I suggest that if you contact Al Anon? They can give you some support in dealing with a family member with alcohol problems.

Maybe pursue the doctor about your mum (or better another at the practice with a special interest in mental health) about ruling out dementia.

In terms of a family member to share with, what about your dad?

Dad has 'opted out' - literally. Has come to the end of his tether at being insulted/ignored/mocked, and has removed his hearing aid. It's genius actually. I'd do it myself if it were an option.

I am going with her to the GP again next week and I'd thought about Al Anon before but never gone through with it. Perhaps I'll give it a try. Thanks again - you're very kind.

No worries. Found help and support on here before myself. It sometimes helps getting advice from strangers as they have no agenda, and sounds like you need to make some changes.
You can't be receiving verbal abuse on a daily basis from both parties, it's not fair on you.
Plus not only is it upsetting for children, but shapes their self esteem and the way they go on treat/be treated by their partners. Watching your mum rail at you dad maybe set you up to put up with the same?
In which case you probablyidentify with your dad more than you both realise. Perhaps the two of you could have some time alone to talk about your feelings.

The Stately Homes thread (often spelled Statley if you're searching!) has some nice, supportive people if ever you need it.

Off to bed now but will check back. Take care.

You have made me cry (blush). Its ridiculous but it is the first time anyone has shown and empathy for so long. Now I understand what people mean by 'the kindness of strangers'

I have looked at stately homes but I thought it was just for victims of abuse. I have not been abused - just been insulted a lot!

Yes, there are a lot of people who are much worse off on there, but they are very kind and don't make you feel like that. They can also help you identify if behaviours you are dealing with are abnormal and toxic.

Abuse isn't just physical, it can be verbal, or take the form of neglect etc.
A lot of us on there haven't been physically abused, but verbally berrated, belittled, manipulated, contolled and brainwashed (!) as children, then grown up to realise not all families are like that. It's good place to share and dust yourself down, and work out how to go about healing that hurt.

Either way, you can talk to me The good karma goes round. You deserve empathy, but being part of a small family circle you can just learn to take it, and shut down can't you?

your mum - tell gp you /your dh can no longer take the responsibility for her meds - if dad cant either then gp needs to organize the community mental health nurses to be visiting her regularly. community mental health team. if you do it - then she wont get that help. also social services can be involved - your dad if he lviing with her is officially her carer -whether he does that role or not - and he can seek help as a carer. or - you can ask for social services assesment as a carer for your mum. you need to ask gp to refer her to community mental health team and get them to take on that role.

setting boundaries - yes - you can agree to for example take one phone call a day and ignore the otehrs.

your dh - definitely call al anon for advice. again is also about setting boundaries.

how old are DC? what do they say about what they have witnesed? you have to consider not having her in your home for their sake.
also consider how DH is behaving in front of DC and that impact. if he insists on drinking -well maybe it has to be done elsewhere and he doesnt return til he is sober. his choice. if he recognizes what he has done and is apologetic -then there is no excuse for it to happen. but ask al anon.

you need to put them and you first. if you go under with the strees where will the dc be?

if your relationship wih dh is worth fighting for then that also needs to come in a priority order - but if he wont seek help then you have to take tough decisions....a lot to consider - ask your GP for referral to nhs counsellor just to get a space where you can talk about you in all of this.

Snotandbothered I honestly don't know how you can cope with this awfulness being thrown at you from all sides.

I agree with the other posters that you need to involve gp/ss with your mum's care - better someone she can't upset than you. It's your DH I'm angry with on your behalf; he's stressed so he's taking it out on you? Is he serious? And who do you take your stresses and childhood issues out on? No-one, I'm betting. Because you're a decent human being.

How old are your DC? How is it affecting them? Your DH must know that you won't accept this anymore.

You sound like you're being amazingly strong but this must be taking an enormous toll on you.

If you go down the route of a SS assessment though make very clear what you canNOT do as otherwise the outcome of the assessment will be that daughter assists mum and there's no care need

Snotandbothered- you say that you feel panicked, anxious and angry and that you think these feelings are irrational and unfair (if I have understood correctly).

These feelings are normal and to be exepected given what you are dealing with on both sides. Let yourself feel angry if you can because you need to remember that you are important in all this too and deserve better.

It does sound like it is time to look for support elsewhere for your mum so that you can concentrate on your relationship with DH and DCs. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, I am not suggesting that you abandon her but you are only one person and cannot fix this yourself.

I hope that the support on here helps a little.....

Snotandbothered - this situation cannot continue, or the next thing that will happen, sooner rather than later is that you will conk out in a severe episode of anxiety and depression.

Re your mother I agree with others that your description does not sound like depression, but some sort of psychotic illness BUT you say she has been diagnosed by a physiciatrist, so it's difficult. What age are your parents. Are they claiming all the benefits to which they are entitled DLA, Carers Allowance or Attendance Allowance. If not, maybe you could contact CAB and get some advice. It may be possible to buy someone in to care for your mother for a few hours a day once or twice a week.

I honestly think you will have to harden yourheart re your mother. She will suck you dry and you have already suffered a very disturbed childhood. It is not her fault I'm sure, but enough is enough. You need to find out what help is available via the NHS and STOP taking 6 phone calls a day.

I think your priority is your DH and his drinking and the negative effects this is having on you. It is simply not on. You need to talk to him about counselling and as others have suggested Al Anon. On a practical level, can you move yourself out of his vicinity when he starts becoming aggressive through drink. He sounds like he is self-medicating for his own childhood issues, but as I'm sure you know, alcohol is a depressant and will just make things worse.

If there is no change, I think you must give some thought to how you and your children can live in some kind of peace before you too conk out.

I know it is easy to tap this out on a computer but I feel that you are the victim in this family and are "getting it from your mother and H" and you need to be able to assert yourself and start to think of your own needs and those of your children before your mother's needs and your H's needs.

Sending warm wishes and hoping things can improve for you.

Snotandbothered - how are you doing today? Are you still here?

It's a bit tricky when you open up about something and get a rush of recognition and support like on this thread isn't it? Can makes you doubt yourself and whether you've overdone it, maybe you feel like you've betrayed your family a bit. Not trying to put words in to your mouth but when I first had counselling I found the sympathy really hard to accept. My low self esteem made me feel like I didn't really deserve it. When you said "I have not been abused - just been insulted a lot!" it struck a chord with me.

Anyway, hope you still feel able to post.

I am here. Thank you all so much for your input - I am overwhelmed

The past couple of days have not been good. Mum called a few times and did her usual agression/denial thing. I asked her to call back when she felt less angry (very brave for me) and she told me to get over myself and slammed the phone down.

DH called her back and tried to explain that her words were hurtful and to go easy on me. For all his faults he is very good with her and seems to be the only one with the patience to humour and sooth her. It's ironinc really. He says terrible things about her to me, but in a kind of patronising way. Eg "your mother has always been disturbed, she is not normal and therefore you grew up with a warped idea of what is normal. This is why you are so selfish and don't know how to give in a relationship - it's her fault." This is said to me, yet he is kind to her.

My mother is quite similar about DH. One day she will be telling me how marvellous he is checking up on her all the time, the next day - should it take her fancy, he is selfish bastard who drinks too much. The one thing that they do have in common is throwing any information I have passed on back in my face. For example over Christmas I made the mistake in telling my mum that things were quite hard with DH and his drinking/mood swings (I don't know why I share with her I should have learned). She was sympathetic for 2 minutes, then told me to leave him and get a divorce and stop fussing, and then finally, when she had done her 20 minutes of pleasantness, told me that she wasn't suprised DH drank - she would if she were married to me

Anyway the past two days have been horrible. Mum very tricky and I tried to talk to DH but got worse than nowhere. He will never ever have any therapy or councilling of any kind - it's not going to happen. When I said I was unhappy, he said "that's because you are a miserable person. You need to pull yourself together and get on with it - lives's hard".

I told him it didn't have to be like that and we used to have a lot of love in our marriage and I thought it was worth working on, but again he said "you need to stop making such a big thing. Marriage is good days bad days, marriage is for life. it's a commitment, you can't walk away - it's not an option so get on with it"

I just feel very and trapped.

I know DH is scared because he is in the grip of his own demons and I am scared because I can't seem to help him.

DCs are 5 and 3 and I really don't know how much they sense but they have heard both DH and my mum being pretty vile to me.

DD,5 is very bright and I don't want to give her such bad examples of self worth but I also do know my DH had a hellish childhood and is a good person without the drink, and I do believe marraige is for life.

So, I will speak to GP about help with mum on 6th Jan at next appointment, and no they are not getting any help or benefits. They are both early 70's but married, home owners etc so I doubt they are entitled to anything.

Thank you for listening to my night time ramblings.

How very, very hard this is for you. You know what, I'm normally very careful with advice on here, messing with other peoples lives when they are feeling vulnerable is a serious matter. However I am going to be honest with you, as I think I'm only going to say things that in your heart you already know.

You confided in you mother and she immediately used it as a stick to beat you with. You shouldn't feel foolish, because ultimately you are her child and it's hard to give up hope that she will behave as your mother. However, she treats you with no love and leeches from you your your time, energy and confidence. She is insulting and rude.
If she did this to someone you employed to care for her they wouldn't put up with it and you wouldn't expect them to. Yes, the rule is you look after your own, but I believe that applies if it has been both ways. She treated you like shit before she was ill.
I'd be very clear with your GP this has driven you to the brink and you are signing off.

"DH had a hellish childhood and is a good person without the drink" - so are most people. Alcoholics are usually driven to drink because they are sad, not because they are evil. However once the drink is in the driving seat that good person is not there. Maybe they will come back, but sure as shit not as long as they are drinking and you are enabling it. The revulsion he feels for himself will spread further to you for putting up with it, and your, and your childrens' self esteem will go down the toilet.
This is a fact and it will get worse every day until something gives.

You are more in life than a verbal punchbag. You're a good person, a child who doesn't deserve it, a wife who doesn't deserve it, and a mother with children who's future is up to you. I know everyone around you is trying to weaken you, but look at those children and be strong!

you dont live with your mother -so you can more easily set your boundaries. if she is diagnosed with MH issues -then she can get certain help eg community MH nurse to visit her make sure she takes meds. you dont have to do it.

you H - sure, marriage is a commitment -but that also means he has to show comitment to getting help with his issues -whether therapy for childhood issues or AA for his drinking.

marriage doesnt mean you have to swallow everything - when he could take action. if he wants to... refusing therapy etc means he isnot committed....

issuing him an ultimatum -get help for your drinking/get therapy; or we go til you do - shows comitment to your marriage and to making it better for the DC.

Lotster - what an excellent post - and how right you are. OP hope you can take this on board - keep posting if it helps.

Loster. I know you are right. I know that this is the exact advice I would give to anyone in my shoes - although perhaps less articulately. You are all correct in surmising that dealing with my mother is easier as there are at least some (albeit small) geographical boundaries which make distancing myself from the situation more feasible.

Also, I am sure that if DH were less volatile and I knew that at least things at home were on an even keel, I would feel stronger and better equiped to deal with whatever she throws at me.

What I can't seem to do is action anything positive where DH is concerned. He is so very black and white with everything. He says he will give up drinking when he is 'ready' and although this sounds completely laughable, he does have a habit of dealing with things like this. He comes from a family where addictive personalities abound: Food, (serious)gambling and alcohol have all played parts, and he does have an addictive personality. However unlike the rest of his family he has always pursued things until you think he can't do it any more then abruptly stopped. I have seen him do this with drugs - we met many many years ago and both used to go out clubbing etc. One day he said 'no more' and that was that. Went from being a total 'clubbing fiend' to nothing overnight. Ditto when I got pregnant with first DC - he said he would give up smoking - the very day after the pg test, this is what he did. No patches, no therapy nothing - and never mentioned it again.

Everything is black and white and his mantra in life is 'head down and soldier on'. This means he has no patience with people who have affairs, go for counselling/therapy/relate, have trial separations, go travelling to 'find themselves' etc and it is this 'attitude' that is making it so hard to get him to do anything about the state of our marriage. As frustrating as this is, it also means that he has always worked stupidly hard for us, never given me a moments doubt as far as fidelity is concerned and never broken a promise to me. He really is such a Jekyl and Hyde it is so hard. Right now, he is asleep on the sofa having drunk a few beers and been vaguely ignorant and unpleasant - telling me I was lazy. Yet two hours before that he was reading the children a story and then later, holding on to me and letting me pound his chest in frustration because of something my mother had said and being really kind.

He is such a tricky customer. I am so of people whose partners are happy to go to relate/AA/therapy etc. I really can't see him doing anything like that ever so wonder if there is any point doing Al Anon or relate alone? I would love to know if anyone ever resolved anything by themselves? But I doubt it.

Today isn't such a bad day and that's what is so hard. It makes me complacent. Yet tomorrow he could be screaming in my face and throwing things.

So again, thanks for listening to my ramblings. I don't expect any more responses but am finding this quite theraputic and I hope that by writing it down, it will force me into action. I will definitely start my trying to remove myself from the full brunt of my mum. We have a doctor's appointment in 2 days and I am focussed on that.

I looked at my DCs sleeping tonight. They are so utterly beautiful and pure and I don't want to see them poisoned by all of this. It is my job to protect them from unpleasantness and I have been crap at it so far.

yes go to al anon or relate/counselling alone. it can help you see what your choices are and help you decide when and how to make them. or if you wish to make them. clarity.
you do have choices. you can also, maybe, find a way to help H see his choices. as he has done in the past...

you cannot live a life in which "tomorrow he could be screaming in my face and throwing things." -however "good" he is today...