Combining fasting with low carb 1

[StuntNun]

This thread is for people who want to combine fasting with a low carbohydrate way of eating such as Low Carb Bootcamp, keto, paleo or primal.

Disclaimer – I am not a health professional – I am relying on my own reading and experience. If you have a relevant health condition then consult your doctor before introducing fasting. For example, people with diabetes or high blood pressure often require medication adjustments if they cut carbs or start fasting. In many conditions, medications must be taken with food which may dictate one or more regular meals per day. If you have had an eating disorder, or tend to be obsessive or controlling about food, then fasting may not be appropriate for you. I’m happy to chat about any of these issues but this thread is not a substitute for professional medical advice.

Why fast?

1. To lose weight
2. For the health benefits (e.g. reducing insulin resistance, triggering cellular repair, lowering inflammation, reducing blood pressure)
3. All of the above!

Types of fasting

1. Intermittent fasting (for example 16:8)
2. Fasting mimicking diet (such as 5:2)
3. Extended fasting (over 24 hours)

I will describe each of these over the next three posts. Most people start out with, or working towards, either 16:8 or 5:2. Before we get started, my top fasting tip is to make sure you have plenty of calorie-free drinks: water, black coffee or tea, green tea or herbal teas. You may need to drink more than usual because you aren’t getting any water from food during your fasting window.

Just reporting back at the end of my initial 5 weeks I had set myself as a challenge and wanted to lose as close to a stone as possible. I've lost 9 and a half pounds in total since late July. Really happy with this as have been off plan a couple of times and have still managed to completely give up my carby snacking habits. I can feel a difference with the way my clothes fit too.

Continuing into September, thinking of having 2 stricter fast days and calorie counting with low carb the rest of the week.

That's really good going for five weeks, Nordica, well done!

I've just pressed the start button on my fasting app, aiming for 66 hours this week. Is anyone else fasting at the mo?

Hi ladies!

I've been pointed in this direction by the lovely @StuntNun when I was freaking out a bit on the low carb bootcamp at having been diagnosed as pre diabetic again. I was pre diabetic prior to pregnancy, had gestational diabetes during pregnancy, then had a normal diabetes blood result 12 weeks after I have birth. But my first annual blood test after pregnancy showed that I'm now pre diabetic again. So in addition to low carbing, I'm also introducing intermittent fasting (currently 16:8, with the aim of getting closer to 18:6 if I can) to try and get my blood sugar under control before trying for baby number 2.

I've got a couple of questions if anyone can help me out. Firstly, is it ok to snack during your eating window? Or should it be one meal, then no more food until the second meal (I'm only doing 2 meals a day). I'm trying to avoid snacking but I'm unclear if it's necessary or not given that I'm fasting for at least 16 hours. 2nd question is more to do with low carb - can we eat apples? I'm doing ok with roast dinners and resisting the potatoes and Yorkshire pudding but I really really REALLY want some apple sauce with my roast pork!! If anyone has a good low carb recipe that they can share with me, that would be amazing!

Welcome to the thread Pinknsparkly it's been a bit quiet lately so we need some new recruits!

Firstly, is it ok to snack during your eating window? Or should it be one meal, then no more food until the second meal (I'm only doing 2 meals a day).
Yes it is. You can eat as many times during your eating window as you want. That said, if you specifically want to reduce your HbA1c then the fewer times you eat per day, the better. But the fasting part is more important than the eating part so if you need a snack, or even an extra meal, during your eating window in order to get you through your fasting window then have it! Intermittent fasting gets easier the more you practice so even if you do need a snack now, you likely won't in a couple of weeks.

can we eat apples? I'm doing ok with roast dinners and resisting the potatoes and Yorkshire pudding but I really really REALLY want some apple sauce with my roast pork!! If anyone has a good low carb recipe that they can share with me, that would be amazing!
You can eat apples but they're about 16 g carbs each so I would regard that as a treat rather than something to eat daily. I know that technically they're not low carb but I can't believe anyone ever got fat eating apples! The important thing to understand if you're following the Low Carb Bootcamp rules is that they're designed to be simple and easy to follow so we don't have to count carbs or calories. If you follow the Atkins or the IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) approaches then you need to weigh and measure everything you eat. BIWI's rules bypass all that and allow a more intuitive way of eating but the price is that some healthy, but higher carb, foods aren't allowed. Whereas if you were tracking your carbs then you might have the apple but then only have ultra low carb foods for the rest of the day to compensate. So if you're going to have an apple then skip the other fruits/nuts/chocolate that day, and don't have the apple every day.

I actually do have a low carb apple sauce recipe that my mum has always used but obviously it's still higher in carbs that usual for Bootcamp. You peel, core and chop a cooking apple and put it in a microwavable bowl with 1 dessertspoon of water, 1-2 teaspoons of lemon juice, pinch of salt, a few cloves and a little ground nutmeg. Microwave for 2 minutes, stir, and microwave for another 2 minutes. My mum adds sugar to hers but only a tiny amount so it was easy to cut from the recipe.

Ooooh, thanks so much @StuntNun. I'll watch the rest of my carbs for the day and add in some apple sauce at the weekend, can't wait!

BIWI's rules do make 100% sense in terms of ensuring that your calorie and carb count is kept low without having to actually count. But I'm pleased to be able to sneak in a bit of apple sauce .

And my "snacks" tend to be a cup of tea rather than a conventional snack of solid food. It's good to know I don't have to give them up entirely! Do you ever do prolonged fasting? I came across the 5 day fasting mimicking diet last night and am intrigued by the idea (you consume a low number of calories, mostly in the form of fat rather than carbs or protein) to simulate a water fast. I'm definitely a long way off considering that, but it's a concept I'm keeping in the back of my brain in case I'm still struggling with my Hb1Ac levels in a couple of months time

Pinknsparkly if you switch to a zero calorie drink such as black coffee or black tea or (most but not all) herbal teas then that would be even better, both for fasting and for your insulin sensitivity. Coffee and tea, both caffeinated and decaffeinated, also help with hunger during fasting. I sometimes have tea with unsweetened almond milk during an intermittent fast as it's really low in calories. Some people include small amounts of calories (up to 50) during a fast which allows for the odd tea or coffee with milk. Others are more strict and only have water during a fast. Dr Jason Fung allows bone broth or MCT oil during fasts as "training wheels" to help you get used to fasting. It's often described as the fasting muscle because the more you exercise it, the stronger it gets. When I first started I could barely make 14 hours most days but now I regularly fast for 96. I have to say I don't fancy the idea of a fast mimicking diet. IMO it's easier not to eat at all and let the hunger die down rather than keep fuelling it with small amounts of broth, fruit and vegetables.

Thanks @StuntNun (and apologies for the late reply, I didn't see the notification!). I've been sticking to water only during fasting periods because I don't like black tea or coffee. I did try mint tea, but the sweetness made me me hungry! I do like tea with unsweetened almond milk though - I'd not even considered that as an option!

That's great to know that you find 4 day fasts doable. I think I'm going to sit with 16:8 for a while and see how I get on before trying to push it further and going for one meal a day on occasion. I've made it to at 11.5 hours each day so far, and to at least 16 hours on 5 out of the 7 days I've done it. It does mean I'm constantly thinking about food, but since starting the boot camp I'm realising that I've always been a bit food obsessed and constantly thinking about it. Just that now I'm eating this way I'm thinking slightly differently about food because I've never actually been hungry before!

And it makes complete sense about the logic for doing a water only fast. I guess I figured that a fasting mimicking diet would be easier, but I can definitely see the potential for it to be quite miserable . How often do you do prolonged fasting? And can I be a bit personal and ask what is your reason for doing them? Weightloss? Health?

pinknsparkly I do 16:8 most days and an extended fast once a month. I have to do 16:8 because I get too hungry when I eat breakfast. I had jaw surgery for osteoporosis last year and I was hoping the extended fasting would help with the healing process. I'm not sure it made any difference to my jaw but there's probably not much that can be done for worn away bone. However the other benefits have made it worth continuing. One thing I don't seem to do is lose weight on an extended fast! I do over the course of the fast but then put it back on again over the next few days. I must subconsciously overeat to compensate. So the 16:8 is for weight maintenance and the extended fasting is for my health. I've seen significant improvements in scar healing. I'm allergic to insect bites and usually spend the summer covered in scabs that takes weeks to heal and then scar. But extended fasting speeds up the healing process and the scars lighten much more quickly. I always wear sleeper earrings during an extended fast after one of my piercings started to close up during fasting! My cellulite has completely gone which I didn't think was even possible. Fasting is renowned for helping to tighten loose skin from weight loss and I can see why it's so effective. I also have a couple of varicose veins and extended fasts significantly reduce the swelling temporarily although the effect only lasts a few weeks. Then there are the benefits you can't see such as improved insulin sensitivity, blood pressure and cardiovascular health. There's also the possibility that fasting will slow the aging process through autophagy. Three of my grandparents lived into their 80s or 90s so if I reach that age I would like to still be relatively fit and healthy if possible. Exercise is another part of that puzzle of course. And finally there's the possibility that fasting reduces your risk of cancer.

Hello! I'm really reading a lot about fasting (Dr Fung) and watching his videos. Managed to put a stop to too much alcohol at the beginning of the year (lost no weight at all, was gutted) and now am going low carb and intermittent fasting. So far, so good. Just managed my first 20 hour fast. Sounds small but was enormous for me. Will be following this thread with interest.

Well done Nowstrong keep us updated.

@StuntNun it's fascinating how much of an impact fasting has had on just your health. It's quite easy to read the information online and be a bit cynical about how much difference it actually makes to a single person!

@Nowstrong - congrats on your first 20 hour fast! I also did my first one today, but that was accidental... I was ravenous at 17 hours but couldn't eat at that time, then the hunger has dissipated so I ate at 20 hours as that worked for my schedule! How often are you planning on fasting?

@pinknsparkly I'm not sure how often, as it is all very new to me. I still haven't broken my 20 hour fast, as I'm, very surprisingly, not hungry, so I have decided to continue until lunch time (13H00), which will make it 25 hours. I'm thinking 2 x 24 hours a week.

I slept surprisingly well last night, I thought I would be plagued by hunger and foodie dreams. In fact I'm feeling very detached from the thought of food. This is all very interesting.
For info, I'm "only" overweight, not suffering (yet) from diabetes, only highish blood pressure. I normally have quite a large appetite. Stopping snacking and alcohol was difficult for me (more the snacking than the alcohol).
I'm fascinated by what Dr. Fung says, especially that weight loss through fasting doesn't leave you with saggy skin, also as stated by StuntNun above.
Interested in any input and thoughts.

Had a hard boiled egg. Fasting time = 20hrs 40mins.

Well done Nowstrong that's great! I recommend using a fasting app such as Life really helps. I use the free version.

Thank you! I will look into that!

Hi, is it ok if I gatecrash?

I've been doing 5:2 low carb for a month. Lost a stone nearly so I'm relatively pleased with that.
I'm vegan so that adds an extra level of complication!
I have 6kg to go until I'm in the NHS healthy bmi club. However I want to get down to my wedding weight so 12kg in total, so still a fair way to go.
Apologies, I haven't read the full thread (toddler lol!)
Was wondering if anyone noticed that weight loss slows after the first stone. Looking for ways to mix it up to continue a healthy loss and maintain when I get there.

Is there a specific book that you guys can recommend? I've done some website reading but prefer books! I'm specifically interested in the science behind fasting.

@Nowstrong - I like the life app too, but have switched to to zero app (also the free version) simply because it doesn't have to be connected to the internet to work. I am often working in locations that have no phone signal or wifi. If you're simply looking for a start-stop, record how long I've fasted for, there's not much difference between them though the life app does have some interesting articles on it that I read before I uninstalled!

Today was a bad day. I barely slept last night and just gave up any hope of fasting at all. But I figure that it's probably not a bad thing to give my body a shake up food-wise every so often? (Or I'm just clutching at straws to make myself feel better )

Welcome to the thread BelleOfTheProvince a stone in a month is brilliant - well done you! Weight loss shouldn't slow after the first stone but weight loss is also never linear so it's entirely expected to lose for a few weeks then seem to stall for a couple of weeks then weight loss to start up again. There does often seem to be a stall at around 5-6 months in (with any type of weight loss) and this can last a long time. Mixing things up with fasting is definitely a good move. If you're doing 5:2 then you could try throwing in a longer fast e.g. 24 hours every so often. Low carb vegan sounds like hard work though hides the butter!

Pinknsparkly I recommend The Obesity Code by Dr Jason Fung. Having said that I'm not sure the science is actually that well understood. All the bigwigs in the game go on about insulin as if it's the be all and end all for weight loss and health but I really can't see that it's as simple as that. There are multiple hormones involved in regulating your weight and they all interact. So yes, insulin is important but so is cortisol - if you're stressed and sleep-deprived then it won't matter how low your insulin is, your weight loss might stall. Then there are leptin and ghrelin that directly impact your appetite. Also dopamine can affect weight loss, as can adrenal fatigue. But the Obesity Code is still a great read and I recommend it. If you've had a bad night's sleep then fasting may well be next to impossible today as your cortisol and insulin will be sky high. I would focus instead on good, comforting low carb foods to keep any excess hunger or cravings at bay. Also with fasting it's really good to have the occasional three meals day as recommended by Dr Mindy Pelz.

Thanks @StuntNun, I'll add that to my reading list!

I had some blood results back this week and my cortisol is raised (surprise surprise, as I don't tend to sleep that well!!). I definitely think my stress levels and sleep quality affects my weight loss. My other blood result is that my HbA1c is 32 That is down from 42 when I started the low carb bootcamp. I'm utterly amazed that it's had such a dramatic effect and so quickly! It's definitely given me a massive boost to continue this WOE.

Hi all,

Can I join in?

I'm a big fan of fasting and low carbing, but I do love to fall off the wagon, and when I do it can last for days.
So I have decided to hold myself accountable again by using a group chat!!
I'm going to start tomorrow as it's my son's birthday today, so I will eat some cake!!
Which funnily enough, I'm not actually looking forward to.
I find when I eat low carb, I'm not hungry, peckish, I'm focused, feels loads better about myself!
I have read the whole thread, and think you're all doing amazing.

How are you getting on @marvels81?

Hi @StuntNun

How's it going with you?

I have stuck to it enough that I'm reaping the benefits of fasting, combined with low carb.

I mentioned cake in my last post, hope that didn't trigger anyone.
It wasn't as good as I remember chocolate cake to be!
I have unfortunately have fallen back into the trap of aldi's caramel rice cakes, but weirdly, even after a few, it hasn't continued further than the one day! But I know any sugar intake can be a slippery slope.

I definitely feel better, more energy.
All the good things associated with sticking to something I know works for me.

I'm slowly getting into manifestation, and visualisation, which is helping me see myself for next years summer!! Haha

I don't have a lot to lose TBF, it's more a way of life for me that I want to re-train my brain into accepting as the norm.

Christmas Day lunch/dinner around our house is actually so low carb friendly, that I'm really looking forward to it!

Have you made your plans for Xmas day yet?

It's been rather quiet on this thread lately. I didn't manage my October extended fast as I had to go to stay with my DM after she had an operation and food was a bit haphazard while I was there. I don't know whether to try and fit one in next week or wait until November. My varicose veins are starting to come back so at least it shows that the monthly fasting is successfully keeping them at bay.

Christmas Day is my one day off a year but I don't go too crazy with it. I have half a grapefruit and Buck's Fizz for breakfast (my kids are still young so we're always up stupidly early!) Then it will be smoked salmon on Seriously Low Carb bread for lunch. For Christmas dinner this year we're having goose and I'll have one roast potato and some stuffing with that. My mum always makes me a Christmas pudding so I'll have a small piece of that with lots of extra thick double cream. I'm looking forward to it already!

I'm starting an extended fast today after dinner. I missed my monthly fast last month as I was staying with my mum so I'm not sure how long I'll manage this time.