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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
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23
Kimlek · 23/02/2020 10:55

Thank you ladies!
I didn’t mean fasting for longer but just at a different time of day but tbh I don’t think it’d work for me as I’m never ever hungry until around 11am so waiting until lunch isn’t remotely difficult. What I probably should focus on is NOT snacking in the eves. I’m very partial to a handful of seeds or nuts or both around 8pm. BUT having said that, that’s actually all ok (as long as it’s within 800) and very BSD and still gives me a 15/16 hour fast. MmmmHmm
Maybe I’m focusing on the wrong thing. My timings and fastings are actually ok. I’m not good at measuring/weighing foods.... I do a lot of guessing. So this week I’m going to weigh food! I’ve planned dinners but struggling for lunches... maybe I’ll do a batch of Vietnamese pho soup ( it won’t last long as all 3 kids love it) but should give me a couple of lunches.
bear your point about NHS & TV progs (esp TV) etc promoting eat less move more they also predominantly promote high carb low fat. And that takes quite a mindset shift too.

CaptainBrickbeard · 23/02/2020 11:02

Bear the height/weight threads can be very odd! I always remember reading Jilly Cooper novels as a teenager and the ‘fat’ character Kitty who runs off with sexy Lysander is described as hideously obese when she weighs 11 stone. She slims down to 8 stone at some point but is still ‘chubby’. At the time I was around 10 stone, in retrospect within a healthy range for my height but I absolutely internalised the idea that weighing in the double figures was abhorrent.

What I understand now is more about body shapes. I’m an hourglass and I put weight on evenly over my body. I think if someone is an apple shape, they might look and feel better at a lower weight at the same height as me.

Kimlek · 23/02/2020 11:04

Watching Jason Fung’s video now thanks chocauvin love your username!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/02/2020 11:36

@Kimlek I agree re: the evening calories. What's even more annoying is that I eat things in the evening and I'm not even hungry. I just seem to do it!

I definitely need to weigh more food and accurately track what I'm having. I'm actually getting some new kitchen scales today and that will really help because I very often guess.

One thing I love about BSD is that it makes me think healthily about the whole experience of food and not just about 'what can I have?' - but making choices about fats, fibre, protein sources; drinking water; weighing food and being mindful, and above all actually enjoying my "diet food" is so liberating. I think i only feel like I am at the moment because I'm not really eating proper BSD.

I had pasta yesterday and felt horrible, tired, sick and bloated yesterday. I hate feeling like that- that was probably the first time in a year I had eaten pasta and it was horrible.

What's everyone having today? I'm going to do a pulled gammon for dinner, with salad and coleslaw. Lunch will be vege sausages and goose egg scrambled egg. We're doing pancake day today because I work Tuesdays and I want to start my healthy 6 weeks ASAP so I probably will have 1 pancake with the dc. I'm very ready for my healthy fresh start though!

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CaptainBrickbeard · 23/02/2020 11:53

I had pasta at a relative’s house and just found it so tasteless and boring. I think a lot of the BSD food is so fresh and vibrant, pasta and bread just seem like stodge a lot of the time. I certainly haven’t missed them.

I had Greek yoghurt with seeds and berries this morning. Not sure about lunch but I have butternut squash soup that I made yesterday or I have lots of salad stuff and avocado. Dinner will be slow roast pork belly and veg. I’d like to do cauliflower cheese with it but will definitely tip my calories over if I do.

CaptainBrickbeard · 23/02/2020 11:55

I might do myself an omelette when the kids have pancakes - they want bacon and maple syrup so I could do a bacon omelette for me maybe. I have three weeks til my birthday so I’m tempted to hold out on anything sweet until then.

Teaismynewfriend · 23/02/2020 12:57

Some great sounding food today!!
I've had Greek yogurt, berries and seeds (v small portion) for breakfast, scrambled eggs, smoked salmon and protein bread (it's amazing stuff made with egg white and very low carb, outside of the UK though) for lunch and dinner will be a low cal veg and white bean soup
I'm considering a 2:5 approach with weekends a bit more relaxed. Does anyone else do this? I will lose a bit more quickly but I will probably feel happier

Lndnmummy · 23/02/2020 14:06

I’m so happy to be back with you lovely ladies. I’m using today to get my mindset right, and I’m reading up on my old threads when I was doing really well. Well done everyone. @PhoenixMama you deserve an OBE for your services in public health. Huge hugs all around and I’m hoping by this time next week I’ll be past the worst part of carb flu and feeling really optimistic.

ChocAuVin · 23/02/2020 14:47

Thanks @Kimlek Smile

Kimlek · 24/02/2020 06:58

Happy Monday everyone!!
After reading & watching Fung’s video yesterday and gaining a few pounds whilst on hols I decided to fast until dinner time. I was a bit hungry at around 4pm and my tummy rumbled a bit but it was ok. I had a good sized BSD friendly roast dinner. I blew it a bit as by 9pm I was eating M&Ms! 🙄 Anyway this morning I’m 11.1.6 which is my lowest!! So I think I’ll do that every now and then especially if I’ve gone off piste.
Today I’ll fast til lunch and try the 1st day of yoga. I have pilates this afternoon. Tonight is stir fry beef but I’m not sure about lunch as didn’t make the Pho yesterday... may do that today.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 07:50

That's good @Kimlek , I'm going to watch it today if I have time (and peace) to do it. How long did you fast for?

Monday again! How did this happen? Today I have a few errands to run and will try and get a workout in (probably 30 mins using my punchbag and weights in a hiit workout) plus day 15 of yoga. I'm going to make some bone broth and try to add in some longer fasts this week. I'm totally bloated with water (can't even get my rings on!) and so I haven't even dared weigh myself because I'm probably several pounds up and that will do my mood no good at all!

I have new kitchen scales so my aim this week is to weigh everything before I eat it, but I'm not weighing myself! Just focusing on the plan and let it do its magic!

Have a great week everyone!

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Kimlek · 24/02/2020 08:49

bear it’s probably nothing you don’t already know. But the stats around weight gain despite low cal eating is very interesting and highlights the insulin issue. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a combination of eating ‘good’ foods and leaving gaps between eating. How long did I fast for? I had a curry (with rice) late Sat night when we got in around 9pm then other than herbal tea and 2 coffees with milk ate again at 630pm Sunday. So about 20 hours! Oops. I hadn’t realised that. But I ate lots & drank lots last week so defo had fat to burn!! The jury is out with me on how safe this would be long term but I think every now and then would be fine. I’ve never had an eating disorder and don’t think I’m at risk. From the video he didn’t seem to recommend a particular pattern; does he suggest a pattern in his book?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 09:35

@Kimlek I find it very interesting. You've touched upon something I've wondered myself there too; it's one thing to fast when your insulin is haywire and you're carrying excess weight, that does make sense (and the book makes it sound very healthy and viable) but when I'm not so insulin resistant (ie after doing BSD for a long time!) or if i don't have much visceral fat, or generally body fat, is it still healthy? I don't really know. I suppose it goes against what we're always told, but then so does the whole BSD philosophy too.... I do know though, that low calories long term is not resulting in weight-loss for me. Considering my tdee is 2500, there is no way that I overeat by say 5000 calories (plus my 5000 tdee) every weekend. No way. So something isn't 'working' for me and I'm pretty certain it's still insulin causing it somewhere along the way?

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CaptainBrickbeard · 24/02/2020 10:08

I’ve stalled for a week, unsurprisingly as I haven’t really been very on plan so thought I’d try fasting til lunch today to kick start my renewed effort. I do NOT know how you all do it! I’m really grumpy. I got locked out of my internet banking because I kept getting my password wrong. I’ve managed no productive work at all and my head is so fuzzy I can’t concentrate. I’ve drunk plenty of water and herbal tea along with a black coffee. It’s just inexplicable to me how people do this on a regular basis! I’m going to have breakfast in a minute so that I can actually get some writing done.

The calorie thing is interesting. It absolutely is not as simple as calories in vs calories out or weight loss would be linear and predictable. I struggled so badly in weeks 3 and 4 when I was certainly hitting a big calorie deficit - there had to be something else going on in my body. I obviously have to reduce calories to lose weight but I think the fasting and the management of insulin is the really crucial thing definitely.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 10:38

@CaptainBrickbeard yep, I find lunchtime hard enough some days, I couldn't do longer than that. Plus I am worried it might affect my sleep.

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Kimlek · 24/02/2020 11:14

bear he does explain the little & often well and how that woe doesn’t give insulin a chance to kick in. BUT I still think there’s sooooo much we (Dics & nutritionists) don’t understand. Physiology is incredibly complex and I doubt very much there’s one rule fits all either. For me, low carb makes sense and isn’t too difficult; low cals in also makes sense, as does more cals out; an element of ‘gaps’ or intermittent fasting also makes sense. So I’m thinking a mixture of this should get me there. However, it is definitely not straightforward especially when M&Ms call my name at 9pm!! Which makes me think that all those research studies (especially the longitudinal ones) will be flawed as people will have cheated... it’s human nature.
captain I agree that it’s definitely not simple ‘in v out’! I’ve never been a bfast person, though ever. Years ago I’d get hungry around 10am, so would go on a break and have bfast/snack then but still have/want lunch some 2/3 hours later at a regular lunchtime. I’m going back years but that has kinda stuck until recently. So missing bfast at 10am and waiting til 12 for lunch hasn’t been a great leap. If you normally eat bfast early then waiting til lunch is forever. I think it’s important to listen to your body and your hunger signals rather than eating because it’s ‘time’ to eat. Maybe just go an hour or so longer than usual? And monitor?

Lndnmummy · 24/02/2020 12:58

Very interesting to read the last few posts. I did very well on this plan last year. I lost 12-14kg and reversed my looming T2D. Then I fell off the wagon. Bereavement, new job yada yada. I have been eating ALOT and quickly put on the weight Id lost. This is troubling for many reasons. It did make me question the sustainability of a very low calorie diet long term. I also realised, that I had not kicked the emotional relationship I had with food. I had in fact made it worse and I was back in a very bad place of using food as an emotional crutch. For me to sustain any weight loss, I need to get help for my emotional eating.
I thought that I had.
I’m somewhat in despair having to start from scratch again, but it has to be done .
If only, hey

thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 13:53

@Lndnmummy @Kimlek I agree with both your posts there. @Kimlek I definitely think a combination approach is the way for me. I like the idea of fasting, and not even just the weight loss but things like reduction in cravings, mental clarity, growth and repair etc. But that being said, I don't want my dc seeing me not eating, and I am not sure really how it would fit into a normal, busy life and an exercise regime (although Tim Noakes writes the forward on the obesity code and he's a marathon runner so...) - but I am definitely going to try to increase the time between meals and really try to increase the overnight fast time by not eating after dinner and holding out til early lunch the next day.
And @Lndnmummy , the emotional eating is my biggest issue; regardless of how well I am doing i eat for 'non hunger' reasons, and I always think if I could just kick that then I'd be halfway there. I find that my emotional eating is my biggest secret, it's like I'm very embarrassed by it, so I very rarely talk about it in real life, but I've always done it.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 13:54

Weird bold shouty post there, sorry! Grin

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FluffyEarMuffs · 24/02/2020 14:25

Popping in to say good evening from a former soviet horse eating "everywhere I look is concrete" country 😁

This place is destroying my no carbs with the most delicious and interesting bread (which I am going for to avoid the horse!) - and yes, the red wine and the vodka shots are also probably not doing much good either 🙈

I also have much the same questions about restricted eating and long term viability. I seem to recall there were some case studies of people who had been doing this for a few years that MM quotes in Fast 800. One that I remember said her family just understood that she never ate after 3pm or something like that??

I haven't made it to the gym or pool in this hotel sadly. I am moving countries tonight though and do intend to actually work out at least where the gym is in the next hotel. And I am next going somewhere hot, so I won't want to eat much anyway!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 24/02/2020 14:47

I wonder how viable that is though? and whether I even want that to be viable? Dh and I enjoy a meal, glass of wine, etc, it's essentially our social life as we very rarely go out now. I don't know if I'm ready to never eat a meal with him! And I suppose this is the issue isn't it, because it's never just food for fuel is it? Realistically, I think a once- weekly long fast (eg maybe 24 hours) could be possible but I think my 'old me' head is saying 'if you do that you'll binge afterwards' so I am Going to tentatively try it and see what happens.

The other issue with fasting, and some of you will empathise with me on this, is that when you're overweight and do 'an extreme diet' half the people want you to fail, and half want you to take them with you. If you're slim, or have lost 'enough weight' (because not many people really want their best friend to get slim, do they?) and doing an extreme diet, everyone and I mean everyone has an opinion on it and the opinion will be that you're being very unhealthy and must be miserable, and that 'everything in moderation' is the only way (even though it never works, and they know it!) I found that incredibly hard when I first lost weight, my life, my diet, my food all became 'public property' and therefore I think
I'd have to keep fasting as a 'secret' but then it does feel a bit 'starve' rather than 'fast' doesn't it?

I haven't eaten yet today, and my bone broth is simmering away in the slow cooker and smells amazing! My plan is to have that at dinner time while the dc eat.

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Riddleofthesands · 24/02/2020 16:07

I am just having dinner today as it’s such a quiet indoor home day for me. I think my appetite has adjusted to going quite long between meals, it’s not really an effort now, feels natural. I never feel weak or wobbly. I couldn’t have done this with young children or babies, I was always exhausted.

Dinner tonight is clearing out the fridge, roast cauliflower, roast courgette wedges with chilli, mushrooms and puy lentils.

Lndnmummy · 24/02/2020 17:15

Has anyone lost weight and then piled it back on to loose it again. I have just felt really sad today about it all. Really feel like I threw it all away.

Riddleofthesands · 24/02/2020 17:42

Lndnmummy I have gained and lost the same 20 lbs at least twice. It’s not the hugest amount but I am small boned.

You did it before and you will do it again, just forgive yourself and take it a half stone at a time. Get your tape measure out, write down your goals, food diary and clear out your larder. Try to see it as a happy opportunity to feel and look better. Flowers

Teaismynewfriend · 24/02/2020 18:01

@Lndnmummy I've done exactly that. My weight was stable until I had kids and then periods of illness and medication, peri meno and mood problems have played havoc. Don't feel sad, take it one step at a time and Pat yourself on the back for getting back on the wagon.

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