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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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Thread gallery
23
Chrissmasjammies · 20/02/2020 12:51

@Captainbrickbeard that's amazing! There is no beating that feeling. Living life to the full. I've my eye on a sundress too you have inspired me to buy and stash. So far so good, am down 2kg since Monday weigh in. Today was Brazil nuts for breakfast. Had my coffee but no sugar. Lunch was Greek plain yogurt milled seeds and frozen berries. Dinner will be probably scrambled eggs ham and salad. Wont have much time after gym.. this initial weight loss gives me 2 stone to target, have revised it upwards a bit to 60kg still well within a normal BMI. Suffer a bit with hunger at night time that's my body adjusting to the big drop in calories. Am using the nutracheck app to track. Find it better than mfp

thenewaveragebear1983 · 20/02/2020 13:13

Well done @CaptainBrickbeard

'Tis like witchcraft Grin

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CaptainBrickbeard · 20/02/2020 20:17

Thanks everyone! Christmasjammies in my first week I got up at 2am one night to go and eat halloumi out of the fridge; I couldn’t sleep for hunger! It all settled down quite quickly but it’s tough at the start!

Teaismynewfriend · 20/02/2020 21:09

What a great achievement @CaptainBrickbeard!!!! Awesome, well done to you!!
Mixed progress here on day 3. 3lb down but tonight I've had vodka and zero tonic. I know alcohol is a bad bad idea in the first phase and funnily enough it's taken me over my 800. It's also worrying me because I know I'll be more hungry in the morning. Annoyed with myself but still focused and determined. Mid week booze treat habits dying hard. How do you all keep the booze at bay on this plan? Because its such a key factor in the success or failure of weight loss. Any top tips??

thenewaveragebear1983 · 20/02/2020 21:29

@Teaismynewfriend I do drink but only at the weekend. I have to admit, I've been doing this so long now that because I have more calories at weekends, I do just count the cals/carbs within my totals. I'm not a big drinker so it's usually a bottle of wine over the two nights.

Today I'm closing up on 1300 cals, 80g carbs (had a shortbread biscuit made by Ds!). Food's been good otherwise, chicken soup for lunch and salad with ham and beef for dinner. I've done 15k steps (but that included day 10 yoga, 25 minutes punching my punchbag and an hours circuits!)

I'm feeling the feint rumblings of pmt; today I had a few moments where I could have devoured the entire kitchen and had to have very firm words with myself. It's never good when this feeling coincides with the weekend so I will really have to try to stay on track.
Tomorrow: looking forward to a nice long run as I haven't really been out all week. Day 11 yoga. Food will be.... not sure yet. The fridge is pretty bare!

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onanothertrain · 21/02/2020 07:49

Great news captain well done!
I drink alcohol at weekends only but still probably too much! Prior to starting BSD I was a beer drinker, now its mostly wine or gin. The difficulty for me is trying to avoid carbs on the odd occasion I feel hungover.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 21/02/2020 08:01

Gin and slimline would be best as it's the lowest calorie and zero carbs but I do find gin keeps me awake.

I'm going into the weekend feeling a bit grumpy, bloated and hormonal. I know it's only water because I'm due on and I've been quite good this week, and I have done loads of exercise too, but I'm still secretly a bit peed off and grouchy about it. I was hoping for a nice positive result to see me through the weekend!

Still, we keep on keeping on don't we?!

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FluffyEarMuffs · 21/02/2020 13:11

I am going to be drinking when I am away. I think I might start on the flight to be honest 😁 I am not sure I fancy gin all that much though. It might have to be red wine (and champagne).

I did a gym class this morning and walked the dog. My weight is up a bit, but I came on early (and without the usual pain, carb cravings or PMT, which was odd) it's the first time in years I have not needed painkillers the first day, so if this is anything to do with diet changes I will take the increased weight for a few days.

I can't do any exercise this weekend. And I wish I could take the scales with me as motivation...

Kimlek · 21/02/2020 20:03

Huge well done on the sundress captain and I’ll be trying your ramekin baked eggs fluffy but not the sheep’s head!!
I’m still away but back tomorrow. Have had no access to scales for a week but my skinny jeans are fitting ok. I’ve fasted til lunch everyday which has been hard when there’s amazing breakfast laid out every morning. Whilst my eating has been relatively BSD it’s been waaaay over 800 cals AND I’ve drunk an awful lot of alcohol. I’ve been exercising daily so at least that’s something! we’ll see on my return how much damage I’ve done!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 21/02/2020 21:05

Today's gone waaaaay over. Had Nando's with dd for lunch, (although still exercised some restraint: no fries, had a wrap and the grains side, no dessert) and dinner we've had a nice steak and salad with halloumi. Although I have grazed a little this afternoon, I had a pork pie and a mini muffin!
I did 18k steps though )10km was a run, and did day 11 yoga.

I'm tempted to give up sugar 100% for lent. I think I need a focus as every day i seem to have something sweet. I am tempted to try no sugar and no dairy (need to reinstate the zero dairy anyway so lent is a good time) for the 6 weeks.

Tomorrow we're going to see the dinos in Oxford, so food could be a bit hit and miss, although I will still do bootcamp and fast til lunch as I usually do on Saturdays. I'd imagine we'll have lunch out so it will really depend on the options at wherever we end up.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/02/2020 07:21

Ended up drinking a few glasses of wine last night and a few nibbles, thus rendering yesterday a 100% write off. I daren't step onto the dreaded scales this morning, but as I'm due on in 2 days I'd imagine I'm carrying several pounds of water weight anyway so it won't be a positive experience!

I'm Trying to keep motivated for the weekend though! A positive mental attitude is needed I think, rather than an 'I've blown it anyway' attitude, so I'm not going to dwell on my sins yesterday and instead focus on the positive! For example, I bought a lovely satin midi-length shirt dress yesterday, in a size 8, and it fits - so I will wear it today with glee. My stomach is definitely looking slimmer, more toned (that's the yoga 🧘‍♀️) as well.

Have a great Saturday everyone.

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FluffyEarMuffs · 22/02/2020 07:38

Bear size 8 🙌🏻 🎉

Wow, that's brilliant!

That's worth more than the scales.

Teaismynewfriend · 22/02/2020 07:50

I'm going into the weekend 4lb down from Monday which I'm really happy about!! Yesterday was not perfect because I went out in the evening and had a few drinks but I didn't eat after my early bsd friendly dinner. I think it's so important to maintain a positive attitude when things aren't going perfectly, so well done everyone for celebrating the little steps and individual good decisions made along the way! It's a beautiful day where I live and I'm looking forward to going out into the countryside with the dog and the family to enjoy it.
Happy Saturday everybody!

Lndnmummy · 22/02/2020 12:09

Hey everyone!! I’m so impressed and amazed that you are still going strong! Sadly I fell off the wagon completely and regained the weight that I lost. I need to get back on. Can I join you again? I have 3st to loose now. Jeez, that feels undoable

Chrissmasjammies · 22/02/2020 14:51

Welcome@Ldndmummy we can be newbies together. Well done to all who have had a good week. I went over cals yesterday but still tracked and kept carbs low. Will try to fit in a run today although weather atrocious..Bear the size 8 is brilliant. The scales aren't the only metric!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/02/2020 18:10

@Lndnmummy hiya! Welcome back!
Definitely still going here. Still chipping away.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/02/2020 21:03

Ok, after a meal out today (and, forgive me BSDers, it was Bella Italia, the carbohydrate mothership) and being determined that I was not going to beat myself up over it, it was family time and it was one meal; I now, obviously feel crappy. So instead of punishing myself, I've written my plan for the next few weeks.

I need an overhaul, I'm bouncing around losing the same 5lbs and it's driving me mad. I need full weeks on plan, not just weekdays. I need to stop my daily 'moment' of sugar, which basically undoes all my hard work. I need to get back to that nice easy place where I don't even want the carbs.

For me, it has to be a fully zero tolerance, 100% on it, 100% sugar free, holistic lifestyle approach rather than a diet. I'm going to start tomorrow with a new strategy/method I think, by Allowing more calories but really keeping the carbs low. I'm going to factor in some longer fasting periods but when I do eat it needs to be more protein, plenty of veg and then no snacking (and particularly evening grazing)

My period started today, 2 days early, but that's good because this is now my optimum 2 weeks to shed some water retention too. I think I'm just getting a bit tired of the merry go round, the ongoing diet five days, then 2 days where I regain almost all of my loss, then diet 5 days...... so with 6 weeks til Easter that seems like a good motivation to do a full stint of focussed BSD

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Kimlek · 22/02/2020 23:55

I’m right there with your bear as I’ve returned from one week away having undone the last 5 weeks. After unpacking & laundry tomorrow, meal planning will be a priority!!

Kimlek · 23/02/2020 07:30

bear you said you’ve been reading a lot about intermittent fasting so I’m hoping to pick your brains please. MM has suggested skipping bfast on weekends. I skip bfast everyday. Is there evidence that my body has got used to this and is no longer affective? Is there any evidence that having bfast & late lunch but no dinner would shake things up a bit? I’ve been trying to find out if timings matter without much success and wondered if you’d discovered anything? Thanks!!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/02/2020 08:59

@Kimlek I skip breakfast most days too. The book I've been reading is 'the obesity code' and it's very pro-fasting. Jason Fung seems to advocate long fasts daily, with occasional longer fasts, but it's not about calorie reduction at all (in fact, the book wholly dispels the idea that calorie reduction= weight loss) and it's more about insulin balance. Longer fast = less insulin and less insulin = lower body weight. He does refer to BSD in there with the Mediterranean style diet being his suggested way of eating, although he does suggest more fat than we can eat on 800 cals and still have a balanced diet. I think his real message is to eat more calories but to restrict insulin release by having long fasts and by substantially increasing the balance of calories from fats.

So to answer your question, no. I don't think I've read that we'll get used to it (do you mean in a 'starvation mode' sort of way?) and in actual fact it only by having those long fasts that we really experience the benefits of fasting (eg. Running on ketones, increased mental function, increased energy, increased growth hormone etc). He does include bone broth in his fasting days (proper bone broth slow cooked with apple vinegar for 24 hours) and milk in coffee etc (so not a true fast).

However, that being said. I am still unsure about incorporating long fasts into my diet. I fear that I will binge maybe, or that I'll generally be horrible to live with. It seems a bit 'eating disorderish' and it's one thing I've always tried to discourage on here because I don't want people to think that they have to do 24/48 water fasts for BSD to work (because you really don't).

I understand what you mean about shaking things up though. If I eat breakfast I eat more all day which is why I don't do it, but I suppose you could have a bigger breakfast one day and then have bone broth that evening, then the following morning, before evening meal at 5pm on day 2 (giving you a 36 hour(ish) fast?

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/02/2020 09:07

I will also add re: the obesity code. The first time I read it I was absolutely overawed by it, it blew my mind. The second time I've come away thinking I cannot believe that this can be as true as he suggests because he 100% dismisses any kind of 'eat less move more' method- and yet virtually every doctor, the nhs, every single diet programme ever...they all still promote this and the medical world still largely supports it. I suppose the cynic in me thinks that there's no way they would all say this if it wasn't true. For me, moving more is imperative to my weightloss. But yes, eating less certainly doesn't seem to help, and it's all to do with what and importantly when I eat (and despite doing BSD for so long, the TRE element is something I've never really followed). I found I felt confused and wasn't sure what to think anymore.

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ChocAuVin · 23/02/2020 09:21

Peeks in, waves at you all

I love Dr Jason Fung. This video is long but he totally breaks down your questions above about why the establishment persist in saying the same old things about weight loss.

CaptainBrickbeard · 23/02/2020 09:25

I think I’m in a bit of a stall both weight-wise and mentally (mindset is so crucial to successfully sticking to any kind of health plan!) after this half term week - I’ve been at home with the children and we have stayed in a lot thanks to the relentless storms so I have definitely over eaten on calories, had a couple of social events that were high in carbs and I have not made it near 10,000 steps or a swimming pool once! I am not annoyed with myself, holidays are like that but I am quite looking forward to getting back on it tomorrow and having the time to myself again to re-focus!

I always eat three meals a day and I’ve only done a long fast when I was ill and couldn’t eat. When I used to be on low carb boot camp threads a long while back, I got driven away by the talk of fasting which was steadily increasing over time with people doing longer and longer fasts. For me, having struggled since the age of nine with ideas around my weight and my body and my appetite along with friends who have experienced a number of eating disorders - fasting feels like it’s on the brink of dangerous territory. I’ve come to BSD with a more peaceful attitude than I’ve ever had towards food and with the sense that I need to be kind to my body and my mind.

I like TRE because it breaks the habit of pointless evening snacking on food and drink I don’t even really want. But 14 hours is a comfortable fast for me and I would be very wary of edging it much further.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/02/2020 09:45

@CaptainBrickbeard yes I agree with you. I have a friend with an ED and I am very mindful of diet threads on here becoming a competitive 'under-eating' game. The interesting thing with Jason Fung is that while he advocates fasting, he doesn't agree that cutting calories leads to weight loss, so it doesn't necessarily add up for me because surely if you fast you'll eat less, and lose weight? I have always loved BSD because it's real food, my kind of food as well, and feels healthy and nourishing, and that's what I've always tried to promote on here. And it worked for me- and continues to- it's only because maybe I am vainly pushing my body to lose weight that it doesn't want/need to that I'm experiencing difficulties?

There's a thread in here at the moment about people's weight at 5'7 (my height) and even that has become a very odd thread, some women aiming for 8st7 (bear in mind I'm a size 8-10 and weigh nearly 11 stone at that height) and I was reading it feeling very odd about how little some people must eat.

Thanks @ChocAuVin I will check out that video later.

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Riddleofthesands · 23/02/2020 10:41

Good week for me, weighed and I am now 9 lbs to goal, I plateaued for ages but the numbers are moving down again, I was last this weight in August but this time around my waist is trimmer due to exercise. Traditional Sunday lunch today but I will avoid the carby bits. Keep going everyone.

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