Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
autumn18 · 22/10/2018 14:13

Thanks all!

Hlbug lets just say we have been watching a LOT of 📺 lol. How is your LO? Are you planning anymore in the near future?

BCF any tips during pregnancy? All the good habits have flown out of the window. I'm being terrible with keeping hydrated let alone anything else

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/10/2018 18:27

Fd done on 513cals Smile cup of tea later once ds in bed and that's it. Hope all the other Monday fasters are managing okay.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2018 19:29

Well done, 43
I've finished my b2b too

Autumn My only tips are the obvious 🙂

  • Remove junk from the house if possible and nourish your body with good food
  • obv depending on nausea etc, try to eat proper meals, not snacks
  • plenty of protein, especially fish. eggs
  • masses of veg, also beans, peas, lentils
  • Plenty of dairy, especially full-fat yoghurt, sensible portions of cheese
  • good amounts of quality carbs - sweet potato, oats, brown / red rice, wholegrain bread, quinoa

iirc, you tend to drink too little, so start each day with a glass of water and keep some with you

Have a walk most days
Get as much sleep as possible !

OP posts:
autumn18 · 22/10/2018 20:17

Thanks BCF 

HLBug · 22/10/2018 20:59

autumn I am officially done - two DC (one S one D) is plenty for me!

Mini / FD also done - closing at about 750/800 depending on milk in coffee splodges

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2018 22:03

Well done, bug

Brrrr, after a sunny weekend when jogged and walked in shorts & tee, Autumn (the season ) arrived today.
Thick jacket and long trous

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/10/2018 07:26

Well done bcf and brrrrr you must be feeling it after the long summer you've been spoiled with.

Nfd today, no idea as to what I'll eat as out for the day but will try and be as mindful as possible and choose wisely...

Good luck Tues fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 23/10/2018 07:57

43 - I hope your FD went well and your headache passed. MFP really isn’t too bad, it’s loads easier once I realized it had a barcode scanner. You do learn calories pretty quickly so you do tend to just know how many per meal.

Autumn - Oh my god congratulations that’s fantastic news.

Snail - I hope you have a good break away.

Well done Bug, that’s totally a FD.

Monday FD complete feels strange getting it out the way early.

Good luck to everyone fasting today/ B2Bers.

cloudjumper · 23/10/2018 09:06

Congratulations autumn that is lovely news!

Just catching up again after being out for the count with some strange lurgy for the last couple of days... Came down with some kind of stomach upset/bug on Saturday and spent pretty much all day in bed on Sunday because I felt so rough. Still a bit off yesterday, couldn't eat much and felt rough again every time I did, but feeling pretty much back to normal today.
Question is - should I do my normal FD today? Or give it another day to recover, what's the recommendation? I'm going away to Germany on Thursday, so I won't be able to do FDs out there (well, I don't really want to, let's be honest), so unless I do 2 FDs b2b (which I'm not sure I can manage), I'm out for the week. Or if I just do 1 day this week, then back to it next week? I'll still be mindful and stick to my calorie target as usual... Oh, what to do?!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 10:25

Well done, duck

ENjoy your NFD, 43, duck

Do NOT fast this week, cloud
After a stomach upset, your gut can take several days to repair itself, so fasting during that period can restart symptoms.

bug is one of those who can tell you she ignored this advice .... and suffered

So, just have a healthy TLC week to support your gut:

Lots of water, reasonably healthy meals with plenty of protein & veg
No snacking between meals
No alcohol (it irritates the gut), fruit juice (too acidic, can irritate), sugary / junky food (hinders the gut recovery)

OP posts:
cloudjumper · 23/10/2018 11:45

bigChoc That makes sense, thank you! I was just thinking, ugh, my stomach still isn't 100%, so I will not fast this week and just stick with the usual clean eating, lots of water etc. It's not worth risking a set-back, esp as I want to enjoy my trip to Germany with DS.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 23/10/2018 12:40

Hi all! Hope everyone is doing well.

I fell off the wagon and topped off a week of massive eating and drinking with the most ridiculous drunken evening with some school friends on Saturday. I felt like death all day Sunday and part of Mon in payback, and I've rebounded 5lbs to my previous weight high point, grr! I am hoping lots of it is water weight, though. And I went to the gym for the first time in 3 months and did a 45 min BodyPump class (work gym = shorter classes to fit into a lunch break) and my muscles are so sore this morning, which I also usually associate with going up a couple of pounds.

-draws line under tale of badness----

I am fasting today - just tea with milk until tonight, and then I will get salmon and stir-fry veg for dinner. Good luck to any Tuesday fasters! I am considering doing dry November (I only have one planned night out in Nov so far) as well. I scared myself with the amount of drink on Saturday. I wouldn't have said I had a problem with drink - when I drink in the house I have a couple of glasses of wine and then switch to tea - but when I'm out socialising I frequently throw all caution to the wind.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 14:57

Good luck on the FD, cheddar

Try to keep within NHS alcohol limits, i.e. 1-2 drinks even on a night out, with 2-3 days alcohol-free per week
Dry November sounds a very good idea.
Probably a few othrs will join you 🙂
Also, keep drinking within NHS limits for the rest of October

Binge drinking is very bad for the liver, worse than spreading it out and a healthy liver helps fat-burning.
If the binges happens every week or two, it would also pack on a lot of calories, especially since drink often comes with nibbles

Alcohol stops all fat-burning until the liver has processed the toxic byproducts
Excess alcohol calories, like sugar, are stored as fat preferentially around the midriff, the worst place for shape & health

However, if your NFDs average within TDEE, you are normally within NHS limits and your binges are only 1 x monthly, then it won't make much difference to weight loss.

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 23/10/2018 16:40

I have counted back through Sep and Oct - I had 3 nights out in Sep where I drank more than 2 drinks, and so far I've had 3 in Oct, and I have another planned for this Friday. My usual drinking pattern on non-social nights is no alcohol Sun-Thurs, and then maybe 2 glasses of wine/G&Ts on Fridays and Saturdays, but not every single Friday or Saturday. It is interesting to track it, though! I have made a list and I will try to keep an eye on it - particularly going into December. And I'm going to track food on NFDs for a bit too.

Inlovewithchocolate · 23/10/2018 16:59

im 56yrs old at 11 stone i cant fight this bulge its depressing

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 17:09

Welcome choc cousin 😀
I just replied to your PM; I'm glad you found us

You are probably post-meno, like me and a few others
For us, 5:2 / Intermittent Fasting can work when other diets no longer can.

The OP has everything you need to know, but post whenever you have questions.

Best tips for "hard losers" - keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, no snacking / grazing,^ sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks^

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 17:48

cheddar that looks about 1 binge night per week on average, which could slow loss right down
(as well as not being good for your liver)

This Friday, why not try to stay within NHS limits, so no more than 2 drinks, then say just fizzy water, ice & a slice

That would be a good lead into Dry November

OP posts:
Inlovewithchocolate · 23/10/2018 17:53

Thank you Bigchoc I'm struggl I've gone through menopause and an struggling with hormones I'm getting so many spots on face and it's depressing me I'm getting bigger and can't seem to snap out of this cycle

Gildashairflick · 23/10/2018 19:34

Tentatively stepping on board from next week. I've read Michael Mosleys articles and I reckon I can do two days a week restricted calories as long as I spread the 600 cals over 3 light meals. Does anyone else do that? Where is the best place for fast day meal ideas? There seems to be so much on the internet! Also, I've seen porridge with water mentioned in a few places - is that grim? I feel like it should be grim but I reckon that would be a good breakfast for me to cut out my mid morning snacks.

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 23/10/2018 23:41

Inlovewithchoc welcome aboard! You totally will snap out of it...I have found that it actually becomes second nature once you get into the swing of it
MFP is essential for me to record what I eat...not religiously every day as time goes on, but it definitely helps in the 1st few weeks and even now a couple of months in...it's an eye opener!
I personally prefer to not eat during the day on a FD then eat most of my cals at my evening meal as that is my weak spot but I know that won't suit everyone, it depends on how your day is structured
Drink lots of water..then drink some more 🙂

quackingduck222 · 24/10/2018 08:10

CloudJumper - I hope your better soon. I wouldn’t fast until you get back from your holiday. You will be fully recovered then. Hope you have a fab time.

Cheddar - Did you find the drink went to your head quicker? I wouldn’t worry to much about your gain, it’s probably just undigested food. I’ve found as I weigh Daily a gain like that usually clears very quickly even after a NFD. Usually we say a good poop and a FD will see you right again. Hope your FD went well.

Welcome to the board InLoveWithChocolate, you will get some great advice on here.

Also welcome Gilda - if you think 3 meals will work best for you go with that and see how it works for you. If not change it and drop your first meal. We’re all different a lot of us save ourselves for a big dinner but at the beginning that can be a daunting prospect. Porridge with water sounds pretty grim to me, unless it’s a meal replacement porridge sachet as those are supposed to be made up with just water. If you like eggs they are a great breakfast as there ever so filling.

Good luck for all the Wednesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 08:59

inlove 5:2 is good at helping spots etc caused by hormonal issues
Similarly at tackling waist fat

Welcome, Gilda
Most of us just have coffee or tea for breakfast, preferably black & unsweetened

For meals, boost protein & veg to stay fuller for longer
On FDs, no alcohol or junk whatsoever, especially sweet crap
Also avoid breakfast cereal , fruit juice, fruit on its own without protein, dried fruit - they would all spike sugar

Easy FD choices any meal are eggs (veg omelette, scrambled etc), fish (stirfry with lots of veg, or salad) or beans if you are vegean / vegetarian

Glugging a level teasp Marmite (10 cals) from the jar mid-morning and mid-afternoon helps while your body is adjusting to fasting

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 09:00

Good luck, Wednesday fasters ! 😀

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 24/10/2018 09:18

Hello, welcome gilda and inlove!

BigChoc, I know your advice is right (if depressing!) and I will try to do that on Fri. Finished yesterday on 577, and I’m coming to the reluctant conclusion that I’ll have to restrict to 2 cups of tea with milk on FDs. Only lost 1.5lbs but I think it’s sore muscles retaining water. I’m still aching all over from Monday’s BodyPump, and I’m going back today (gulp). Trampoline tonight too - I will be wrecked tomorrow!

Duck, I think it did, yes!

Boysmomma · 24/10/2018 10:09

Morning all! Wow you step away for a few days and people have lost lbs and found a baby! Congratulations @autumn exciting times!

Back to b2bFD this Friday and Saturday, TOTM here so feeling bloated and generally yuck. Halloween and trick or treating season so trying my best to avoid the crap! Do you think DS1 & 2 will be happy with some couscous and a banana Grin

Swipe left for the next trending thread