5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Come on Slinky you can do it! Be strong and think of later how pleased you will be to have nailed it.

I'm having a Mini FD today - it definitely helps me to be sensible and not sabotage my weekends. Good luck to all the other Fasters- only a few more hours to dinner time

Thinking of you Slinky, hang on in there. It's conquering the hard days that make us stronger.

Thanks BigChoc - I'll keep on keeping on and try to accept the slow losses graciously!

Hi Postnot Welcome to the gang

I have heating but also have a stinker of a cold so had a small lunch and will have supper
interspersed with gallons of tea

Hello fellow fasters.... my household have had horrible colds, which means generally being a bit run down & no sleep (cross baby, even crosser toddler) so been a bit up & down & not posted for aaaaggeess.

Anyway the good....

Now mostly doing 16/8 - not a breakfast person so eat 12-8. Thought I'd struggle to get to 12 after FDs but been so busy it's been ok.

Have at least tried both FDs both weeks, ended up more like 700. But resisted the biscuits at a work meeting on a FD when was ready to cave.. unheard of!

Best bit - now in healthy bmi range... literally just, but feels good. Trying to lose weight as I want to look good in my clothes (vanity!) but minor health scares have made me realise I can't take my health for granted and reading what nhs website says I'm at reduced risk of now was cheering.

The bad..... NFDs & snacking & biscuits... but cutting self some slack. Food is my go to pick me up & find it hard to manage without 'using' it like that when run down/sleep deprived.

Still haven't started couch to 5k. Must do better. Still lost about 10lbs since starting towards end of Nov... considering Xmas in the middle that's more than ok. Just need to pick it up a bit now.

Sorry not responded to how everyone's Been getting on.. I now have from the last thread to catch up on!

Good for you justanother. That’s great news on your BMI and 10lbs is fabulous especially over Xmas.

I did a run today & yesterday that leaves me with 3.5 to make it to the 25 mile point. I’m quite a lazy person usually so pretty chuffed with that.

I am absolutely freezing today, currently have thermal socks on and a blanket round me & over my head. Looking forward to my tea and bed.

Thanks duck and granny for the encouragement. It does help. Have soldiered on. Drunk lots of water and spent the last hour clearing and cleaning kitchen cupboard and the dining room. Am going to try and hang on till 7pm then go and make my roast vegetables - have developed a love for roast vegetables baked in the oven with some seasoning, a little olive oil and chilli, topped with some lemon juice. Today I have carrots mushroom cauliflower and broccoli. Plenty there. May sneak in a small forkful of the chicken fajita filling that the rest of the family are having.

Thank you for the welcome I think it will be 5.2 for me and being disciplined about no snacking. I’ve unintentionally pretty much been doing 14.10 most of the time which I feel comfortable with and will continue with on NFD. I want to average a pound a week max on average as have been very lucky with on the excess skin front considering how much I’ve lost and feel I need to gradually ease towards maintenance. If I don’t need surgery for my fibroid i’m happy to lose a couple of pounds a month at this point and it takes as long as it takes.

Huge sympathies to those feeling under the weather, so much going around at the moment. Glad you are warm again Ta1kinpeace.

Great news on the BMI Justanother, hard to think about starting C25K this time of year. We started in the spring and then had decent weather to get into the habit which has made it easier to get into the habit to keep going with bad weather.

Quacking I’d be delighted with 25 miles, well done ! Peachypips Dartmoor today is highly dedicated in my book!

Well done Slinky for hanging in there.

Congrats on your SV, just and on reaching the borders of healthy BMI

Whenever you feel tempted to snack, remind yourself that snacks will be keeping your insulin raised, hence hindering fat-burning.
If you fancy biscuits on NFDs, no problem - but plan them as your dessert, part of a meal, not a snack.
You would feel more satisfied and probably more relaxed with larger meals

Good for you, olive, cecile
Stay strong, slinky
Yes, it can be challenging fasting on cold winter days

I cycled to the gym this afternoon during heavy rain for pump and then spin classes - 2 hard hours
Then I found my bike was covered in snow - I had to cycle slowly through a freezing snow storm and arrived home knackered

I changed my planned menu from fish & egg salad (!) to warmed up lamb meatballs and mushy peas - and stirred all the salad veg in with it !
Absolutely delicious, even if it sounds odd
Then a small bowl of porridge & chia seeds with a square of 92% cocoa choc and lots of pure vanilla powder.
I'm definitely warmed through now.

Sympathies to all lurgied 5:2ers
Don't fast if you don't feel well enough - and never fast if you have fever
Drink lots of water

Post - I think you’ve definitely come over to the right place for maintenance and to get to your target. I originally came back over to loose just a bit before maintenance. But decided to push my luck and go a stone lower again.

This way of life does teach you new fantastic habits that become the new “normal” and it’s just great.

How much have you lost and what were you doing previously? Sorry for my nosiness.

I’ve lost 93lbs so far Quackingducks. I’ve been calorie counting using Nutracheck and use a Fitbit. At the start I was aiming for 2lbs a week so worked on ending the week with a deficit of about 7000 cals. I’ve not cut anything out but was good at keeping any sugary things to meal times initially, which I now need to resume. Nutracheck is very similar to MFP but more UK focused and it has portion sizes on which I found helpful as mine were huge before.

Walking helped a lot at the start then one day I suddenly decided I wanted to run the Race for Life as Mum died of breast cancer last year. I have never run in my life and never wanted to so this was quite radical for me! Started C25K for a few weeks then had to stop as had gallbladder out. Bounced back incredibly quickly from that and felt a lot better without the nearly constant pain and carried on. I am never going to be fast but I can manage not to be last for a change. Bit of a blip in the summer when hair started falling out and struggled to run so cut deficit which worked better then took a month off from end of November to maintain over Christmas but had flu so did lose a bit. Started Nov 2016 so in a very different place this January compared to last one which is great. Weights and yoga on 2018 to do list.

Bloody hell post 93 pounds is a massive achievement - I'm in awe! And it sounds like you've had a lot to contend with over the last year, so it's brilliant you've been able to keep going. I'm sure 5:2 will suit you well and get you nice and ready for a sustainable maintenance.

slinky congratulations on keeping going today - big high five to you for showing some serious willpower. Also big high five to just for reaching healthy bmi! That's such a brilliant scale victory

Congratulations to everyone who has achieved some exercise or fasted today (peachy Dartmoor, phew!). BCF I would've cried and then probably phoned a taxi if I'd come out of the gym in a similar situation You're officially awesome.

I'm ending my mini at about 950 calories which I'm happy with. PJs are now on and I'll be making the most of a quiet house to have an early night very shortly.

Blimey post that’s absolutely incredible weight loss. Absolutely amazing especially after the year you’ve had.

Bloody hell BCF what a day you’ve had.

Post wow just wow. I am sure we can learn plenty from you.

BCF you are amazing. Hardcore.

So I did it. That was a real tough one today. Ended up swapping my planned meal for a veggie heavy quorn fajita - just the one with no sauces. Had a 10 cal jelly and I am done. Finished slightly over 500 cals but where I was this morning I really didn't think was going to finish FD. Thanks for the support and keeping me going. NFD tomorrow and lots of lovely things planned. Early nite now. Just enjoying my pre bedtime reading of the old 5:2 threads.

Thank you all, I am proud of what I’ve done and it has been pretty life altering and has affected lots of areas of my life for the better. Just realised that I’m still saying Mum died last year when she actually died in 2016 so no longer last year. Last year was a lot lot better than 2016.

BCF what a nightmare of a day, you must feel shattered. Glad you’re home safely now.

Slinky well done !

Give yourself a big pat on the back, slinky for sticking to your FD today

Wow, what an incredible SV, Postnot 93 lb !
That must have made such a difference to your heath & mobility
Do people who haven't seen you for a couple of years still recognise you ?

This is a funny website to compare weight lost to the same weight of miscellaneous objects
http://www.weightandthings.com

You have lost 422 blueberry muffins, or 60 ipads or 84 cats …
The objects change when you reenter the same weight too, so keep trying until you find a comparison that suits you.

One (useful ?) fact I remember is that an adult male elephant's penis weighs 60 lb on average
So you have lost more than 1.5 elephant penises !
(the elephants must be pretty sad about it though )

That's a good weekend miniFD, bug
Well done to all who fasted and / or exercised today

(most unusually, my leg muscles are aching a bit after cycling through the blizzard - they had probably reached their limit after 2 hrs of leg-centric pump & a HIIT spin where I went full blast)

That’s an amazing loss post really inspirational! I lost well when I was last doing 5:2 but when I stopped it due to being pregnant I completely fell off the wagon and it’s taken me until the toddler is 16 months to start again. I’m now the heaviest I’ve ever been and officially overweight so a reminder of how much it’s possible to loose is great. I know I need to reset my NFD particularly.
Well done to everyone who managed a weekend FD and exercise! BCF your cycle back from the gym sounds awful! I’m impressed you didn’t call a taxi! Dartmoor sounds pretty hardcore too! We went in search of snow for the toddler, which is in surprisingly short supply in northern Scotland! Walked about 6k very slowly including some pulling the toddler on a sledge and carrying him on my shoulders although DH did most of the work! I then walked the 6k on my own very briskly after lunch in search of the brand new winter glove I managed to drop on the first circuit - no sign of it sadly but it’s got my steps up to over 19000 for the day which is pretty good for me. On the down side it meant we picked up pizza on the way home for dinner but I only ate what I actually wanted rather than finishing it just because it was there and stayed within 50 cals of TDEE.
For TDEE I am using the number of calories my IWatch thinks I use of resting energy on an average day, which is 1700 without adding any ‘active’ calories (which I think it probably over estimates). I was going to ask if that sounded about right but I seem to recall there’s a TDEE calculator in the first post so I’m off to look for that!

I'm in the frozen, but not snowy, north too

Ps and yeah...11.25pm so much for my early night

Me too! Although it took until 10.30pm to get DS to sleep after he had an epic late nap on the way home and we are on day 2 of trying to get him to go to sleep in his cot instead of on my lap, which is hideous and heartbreaking and awful and if it isn’t better in a week then stuff it! I’m on duty tonight but DH is doing the morning swimming lesson so I can sleep - hurrah!

DrWhy keep persevering, it is so hard breaking habits around sleep but it is worth it.

Well done slinky on sticking to your guns.

I am going to try for a mini today. Managed to consume a whole bottle of red wine last night and dh made an amazing curry for dinner, and there were nuts in the pub - am sure I have undone all my hard work - really hoping tomorrow's weigh will see a pound or two overall down from last Monday, as have deffo had a calorie deficit.

I don't have much to lose (would like to shed 5-7 pounds ideally) but as long as I can see downward progress it will keep me motivated.

Snowing here!

Dog walk later and may get to the gym...

Hi all. Just posting today as then I do better if I think there is an audience 😄

So I have lost a pound since the Jan 5th with two successful fasts last week.

I am now 10st 10lbs, last year doing 5:2 and with the support on this thread I got down to 9st 7lbs and I was really comfortable in my clothes and lost the tummy rolls. Unfortunately that is the only place I put it on. So I am going to get rid of that extra 10lbs again. And I want it gone by the beginning of April.

I struggle on fast says with what to eat as I really don't like eggs or prawns and so many recipes contain one of those two. I do love soup but I find myself so hungry after soup.

I do find eating makes me hungry, so sometimes I just did a complete fast and didn't eat anything for the day. That isn't the best thing to do is it? But I find trying to eat something low calorie that doesn't make me ravenous really hard.