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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TalkinPeace · 19/01/2018 21:12

I do not run, but I do swim outdoors most mornings : that vitamin D hit is the best part of the day

And then a couple of hours of Yoga

I do need to get stricter on my fasting, but I'll wait till my house warms back up after a week of no heating and I shift this stinking cold.
Then again DS passing his driving test may not be useful now that he is the designated driver Grin

HLBug · 19/01/2018 22:05

Just watched that Channel 5 program where they were trialling 5:2. The woman lost 2lb in 4 weeks and was loving it! I would've been gutted with that. She was clearly eating back calories on NFDs - I was really cross watching here "do it all wrong" Angry

Butteredparsn1ps · 19/01/2018 22:41

Outdoor swimming. In January? Unless you are somewhere tropical, thAts hardcore 😂

Motheroffourdragons · 19/01/2018 22:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DrWhy · 19/01/2018 22:57

I made it through a FD today (just about), vegetable soup for lunch then a breaded fish fillet, pile of kale and broccoli and 3 small potato wedges out of the load DP had done for him and DS. Not the ideal FD menu but it was quick and easy and about 550 cal once I’d added in my 3 cups of tea.
Got a short run in too, 3km with a friend going the long way from the office to Nursery.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2018 23:07

Sounds good FD, DrWhy

Brrrrr at outdoor swimming Shock
I don't swim unless water is about 30C, with air temp to match

A late friend of my mum's swam most days all year round in the Thames, until she reached about 80 and just went walking instead.
She made it to 90, pretty fit until pneumonia her last month.
Swimming daily in cold water probably built up her lifelong resilience - but I'd rather do this via fasting !

OP posts:
DrWhy · 19/01/2018 23:14

TiP I love outdoor swimming but in a wetsuit in the summer or in warm water - I agree with BCF Brr!!

Fionne · 20/01/2018 06:18
  • at outdoor swimming shock I don't swim unless water is about 30C, with air temp to match*

Me and you both. My pool is heated to 31c.

quackingduck222 · 20/01/2018 09:15

Bug that problem really wound me up. When she was eating her instant porridge sachet even my DH said you can’t have that. And he knows very little about 5:2.

CeciledeVolanges · 20/01/2018 10:04

Hello and sorry I went a bit quiet! I’m doing Ok and have lost a bit of weight, which is great, and I’m also feeling a bit less like I HAVE to snack and nibble or even that I want to. However, I am having a big problem in that I can’t get to sleep on nights after I’ve fasted, and then the next day I end up really tired and hungry and craving sweet things, which is annoying and counterproductive. Has anyone got any suggestions to help with this? It would be much appreciated! Thank you :)

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2018 10:07

Morning all.
FD today - anyone else ?

When we look at any programs on 5:2, or read about people doing 5:2, it makes us realise that we probably have amassed far more practical / optimised knowledge about how to do 5:2 than any other group.
Starting when tip and the 5:2 pioneers started here right after the first 5:2 Horizon program
Practical tips - no snacking, glugging Marmite - came from here.
Down in the coalface.

That program and the books don't really address women coping with low TDEE, pre / post meno, baby weight, family needs, non-sleeping DC, carers, shift workers, so many demands on them …
or those with PCOS, thyroid issues, disabilities .....

imo, the early info from TV / media people unconsciously assumed everyone was like them, with their resources & support systems,
also who didn't have much to trim - e.g. Mimi was about BMI 21 before she started

… people who didn't have to change any habits except for 2 FDs,
so those who had to cope with much tougher circumstances needed additional tips to make 5:2 really work for them.

OP posts:
snailhunter · 20/01/2018 10:12

I am also a fan of outdoor swimming - we have a lovely outdoor pool in my town which is heated to 31C in the winter. It's really beautiful on clear, freezing mornings because all the steam rises - it's like swimming through clouds with a blue sky above. Yes, it's a little chilly getting to the changing rooms but it's just a short hop. I've swum there when it's been -3!

Looking forward to a lovely weekend - my sister and her son are coming to sleep over. She's had a horrible time recently but things are starting to look up, which is great. Then second FD planned for Monday, if this headache ever properly shifts!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2018 10:31

Outdoor pools here are unheated Shock < shudders > hence deserted
Also not convenient to reach even indoor pools, the disadvantage of living in the sticks - I haven't swum in years, cba.
Maybe in 2021, when I retire …

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 20/01/2018 10:41

Yep I’m fasting today.

I’m actually looking forward to it. I do enjoy my FD tea.

slinkyme · 20/01/2018 10:51

Will try to fat today. Had a NFD yesterday and a night out with much wine drunk and yummy food. Feeling the effects this morning so will see how it goes. OH had wanted to go out for a family meal out today as we have a couple of mini things to celebrate. So if we do then it may be a mini fast day or I may can the whole thing and fast tomorrow. Right now feeling a bit rough and drinking water by the gallon.

snailhunter · 20/01/2018 10:54

Unexpected SV - just hopped on scales on the off-chance and down 2lb! Feeling very motivated for good, under TDEE weekend now!

snailhunter · 20/01/2018 11:07

Oh and good luck to all the fasters today! You're very brave doing it at the weekend!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2018 11:10

Good luck to us all, duck, slinky and any other Saturday fasters
It really helps those of us whose weekends can otherwise sabotage the whole week
Or who are v busy Saturdays and want to make more time for other things

Well done on your SV, snail
Motivating to stay focused this weekend, then see what next week's FDs bring

OP posts:
PostNotInHaste · 20/01/2018 11:40

Hi,Ta1kinpeace kindly suggested I have a look over here and started reading through, what an excellent source of information. I tihink I might have popped quickly onto an old thread once when I was toying with the idea of doing it. Maintenance is finally in sight though much later this year as still have 17lb to go. I’ve always thought about how I’ll maintain and have regular breaks where I eat at maintenance but finally got round to watching the original Horizon program and been reading about the health benefits so decided it’s a good fit with where I am now to take me forward through menopause and beyond.

Over time I’ve gradually found I stop eating at 6pm and recently started pushing breakfast a bit later. I’ve been a bit rubbish with snacking recently so need to focus on that. Did a 800 cal day on Thursday which worked well, will gradually push the calories on FD back.

Although used to eating at maintenance for a few weeks that’s been about staying the same weight so the concept of it most days but still losing weight feels a bit strange at the moment but in a good way!

FDs for me next week will be Monday and Thursday. Have done a Parkrun this morning and walked dog so exercise sorted and I plan to relax sand do some more reading on all this. Love the idea of outdoor swimming but I don’t think there is an outdoor pool near me and I’m too much of a wuss to even think about going in the sea.

Good luck to those fasting today.

GrannyPenny · 20/01/2018 12:46

Morning all.

BigChoc - I'm still MFPing daily so I don't think over-eating is my problem. Am only doing one FD a week, so I know I should expect very slow loss especially as my BMI is nearing mid 'healthy' level. I just need to keep on keeping on. I want my waist back and I want my tummy to not jiggle during exercise class!

Well done for all those who get themselves up to do Parkrun - my bed is far too comfy on a Saturday morning to get up so early.

Goals for today. No snacking. Exercise class done. Drink less coffee and more tea. No snacking.

Have a good Saturday everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2018 13:27

Granny 6:1 is more for maintenance, so that would account for it
You're actually doing well, post-meno and healthy BMI, to be losing even slowly - sounds like your NFDs are fine

Nice to see you, postnot
I've outlined the maintenance "habits" that I recommend for everyone longterm
Additionally choose your fasting WOL, e.g. 6:1, 5:2 (if you like more generous NFDs / weekends), daily 16:8, ....

Main lifestyle tip for us all: NO snacking, ever

OP posts:
OliveBranchColins · 20/01/2018 13:45

Just popping to say FD going well

CeciledeVolanges · 20/01/2018 14:31

Good job OliveBranch as I’m aroundSmile

slinkyme · 20/01/2018 14:53

Struggling through. Draining day for many reasons. Have caved and am having some soup now. Will have roast veggie for dinner and hope to still finish this FD. DH will be doing the supermarket shopping and making dinner for family this evening so that will help.

peachypips · 20/01/2018 15:19

Hi all- have a good day fasters. Up on Dartmoor today for the wettest windiest walk I've ever been on! NFD helping to fuel things.

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