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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 12:22

Thanks for good wishes Smile

Good luck, Friday fasters !

OP posts:
peachypips · 02/02/2018 12:50

Oh no BCF- poor you! So frustrating when you can't exercise too. I'd never considered how difficult a dim room must be for the visually impaired.

I have a Sherpa-style cheap dressing gown from Primark which I bought two sizes too big. When I'm cold I put this on an I could be in a freezer and be warm- it's fantastic!

Re giving blood- I give as often as I'm allowed but it hasn't yet coincided with the 5:2. I know I can't fast, but is there anything I can take to eat so I don't have to have the packet of crisps and biscuit they make you eat? I am v low sugar and low carb and they mess with me.

I don't wake up hungry - I get all my hunger in the evening.

Well done Friday fasters. You are better women than me!

slinkyme · 02/02/2018 13:04

A bit late checking in but a busy work day so hoping FD will fly by. Good luck all.

Wish you speedy recovery BCF.

MazDazzle · 02/02/2018 13:54

Thank you HLBug!

Today’s a NFD and so far I’ve had 2 big bowls of homemade chicken broth for lunch. We’re having minced beef tacos for dinner. I’ve worked it out that it’s roughly 300 cals per taco.

Even on NFD I’m amazed at how easy it is to go over TDEE!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 13:57

Peachy If you are LC, then for blood donation, you could take

a piece of fruit, e.g. apple
plus either

. some nuts
. or a small pot of natural full fat`greek yoghurt / high protein Sky yoghurt
. or 1-2 slices of rye bread with a piece of cheese

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 13:58

Even easier to exceed TDEE if you snack, Maz and you woukd be hungrier overall, so want to eat more
So it's good that you no longer snack

OP posts:
snailhunter · 02/02/2018 14:10

Might be worth giving blood donation people a call to check food afterwards peachy. I have had a bad reaction in the past due to not eating enough before a donation and it was horrible.

southeastlondonmum · 02/02/2018 14:19

BCF Sorry to hear about ankle

HLBug · 02/02/2018 15:07

Can I tell you all about my lovely NFD lunch? Friday FDers look away now (sorry)
As a throwback to the 1980s I had an apple and cheese sandwich on some delicious wholewheat seeded bread made for us by my neighbour...yum. I have no idea why apple and cheese go so well together (gouda in this case) but my goodness it's lovely.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 15:24

bug I have that sometimes, although I always do open sandwiches on rye bread.
I know I'm 61, but hadn't realised before that my food combinations date me !

I love apple & cheese - if anyone wants to reduce carbs with a cheese fondue meal, you can dip slices of apple (and celery) instead of all / some bread

OP posts:
slinkyme · 02/02/2018 17:41

Bizarrely Apple and cheese does sound nice. Hmm may have to try that one day especially on rye bread or maybe soda bread which I love.

So have had dinner already and am in under 450cal. Made a lovely portion of mushroom stroganoff with sour cream and stock, some baked carrots and one piece of chicken (which was leftover). Just enough left for a cup of tea later.

OliveBranchColins · 02/02/2018 19:14

Hope your ankle heals quickly BCF and Flowers for everyone on snot duty.
FD here today as we are off to the rugby tomorrow and will be eating out.
Just closed the kitchen dead on 500

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 19:16

I had a home visit from a very nice doctor, who ordered my pair of crutches, which arrived while he was still here Shock
Great service

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 19:18

(I know in the UK I would be required to go to the doc, but when I phoned they said I shouldn't walk on a badly sprained ankle)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2018 19:59

For those kindly folk giving blood:

  • Obviously only on NFDs, also not the day directly after an FD
  • Eat breakfast, even if you normally never do
  • Then eat something right after giving blood - that's about the only time that a snack would be a good idea.
OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 02/02/2018 20:28

Wow BCF what a service. Is your health care private in Germany? Really hope you recover soon.

Olive snot duty made me laugh.

I’ve been coughed at too many times today. I didn’t feel 100% this morning but managed 2miles and did a bit of a mat core workout. Touch wood I’m not going to get it. Avoided it twice recently when every single person we know got it. Noticed when we’re out and about everyone seems to be constantly coughing.

TalkinPeace · 02/02/2018 20:45

DS is out tonight so DH and I changed our Friday supper routine normally pizza
big plate of mostly veggie mezze was great fun

its the flavours that make the difference

purpleviolet1 · 02/02/2018 22:01

FD done ✅

Roll on tomorrow Grin

snailhunter · 03/02/2018 08:08

SV here! 10 stone 7lb this morning, down 2lb from last week and 6lb since I started three weeks ago. Very pleased as nearly at my mini-goal of 10st 6lb which takes my BMI into healthy range.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2018 08:51

Well done on your SV, snail You're so near that BMI milestone

OP posts:
peachypips · 03/02/2018 09:57

Thanks for advice re blood donating.

People keep showering me with germs too. Ffs.

Well done Snail! Can't wait to be in the tens.

Have a good day everyone. Body pump this morning!

m0therofdragons · 03/02/2018 10:23

Been awake with dd since 3am and in A&E at 6am. Not even attempting a FD today. Dd now home and okay but temperature is still very high 😴

purpleviolet1 · 03/02/2018 10:40

Oh no mother hope she recovers quickly. Just take it easy yourself and rest as much as you can

Well done snail!

SV this morning Grin 9st 5.6lbs

Started on 01/11/17 @ 10 stone 1lb.
Brings total loss to 9.4lbs. With a TDEE of 1500 I am pleased with this Grin

I never took stats when I started but I did take them on 27/9/17 and I have lost:

1 inch upper arms
4 inches waist
2 inches hips
1 inch calf

Seem to have put on 1 inch on upper thigh!

My waist is now 30 inches and hips 36 inches and my height is 5ft 2.5inches. I've forgotten the calc we do, is it waist / height or waist/ hip?

Just to get to the 9's now...

quackingduck222 · 03/02/2018 10:51

Motherof - OMG I hope your DD is alright and makes a speedy recovery. Forget the FD and concentrate of looking after yourself.

Purple- wow that’s AMAZING 4 inches off your waist is loads. That’s 2 clothes sizes.
It really is a fab way of life especially for inch loss.

This is the ratio calculator I use that BCF linked for me a few moths back.

www.health-calc.com/body-composition/waist-to-height-ratio

Snail - what a fantastic loss you’ve had. 6lbs is bloody loads!

I had a Friday night treat night. I’m looking at doing this weekly from now on. Meal + pudding with no calorie counting and a FD Saturday.

HLBug · 03/02/2018 11:14

Oh no m0ther what a worry for you - sending Gin your way.

Well done snail and purple on your SVs! You've both done so well, especially for such a miserable January!

I might skip lunch and go for a mini today.