Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
HandMini · 01/02/2018 21:29

Poor BCF - hope the ankle gets better soon.
OuchBollocks - come join me on the FD naughty step. We’ll get back off it tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 21:30

< sweeps it off the board >
That's right, Ouch just move on.
You could fast tomorrow or Saturday, or just skip an FD this week - but then eat mindfully over the weekend

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 21:31

Same advice to handmini

FDs are not "failed", merely postponed Wink

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 01/02/2018 21:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

m0therofdragons · 01/02/2018 21:39

Ouch BFC hope you're okay and it doesn't stop you sleeping.

Kitchen closed at 516 so I'm happy with that. I ended up with soup for lunch then an omelette for dinner as dd3 wanted to try one (dd1&2 refuse to eat egg unless in cake). She loved it and made me want one. Means I can save soup for tomorrow's lunch.

Dd2 is really poorly with her temp at 39.5 degrees. She's currently sleeping but I'm not expecting tonight to be a good one.

Tomorrow is a NFD but I'm not actually sure when I can eat. Dc to school, work until 2.30, pick up dc, back to school for school disco (I'm helping) so not home until 9pm. Might as well do a mini FD. I'll see how I go. Not going to force it.

Unescorted · 01/02/2018 21:43

BCF hope the ankle mends quickly. My sports physio tells me to strap it and take paracetamol to reduce the swelling each time I go over on my ankle..has well as ice and rise.

Does anyone else wake up after their FD feeling really really hungry? I woke up at 4 beacuse I was chewing my arm off in my sleep.

m0therofdragons · 01/02/2018 21:47

I ensure my main calories for the day are eaten in the evening. Tend to be okay in the morning. The tricky time for me is 4pm when dc are having snacks / I'm preparing tea for dc. On FD I don't eat with dc so it's a lot of food to be around.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 22:01

Reading 5:2ers experiences over the years, it seems easier not to eat anything with young DC on FDs - too tempting to nibble on leftovers.

It helps many to have strict "no food whatsoever until 7pm" say, or between lunch and 7pm, so you don't debate with yourself if you can nibble on just one crust with the DC (it never stays at one crust)

OP posts:
snailhunter · 01/02/2018 22:11

Nooo BCF! Get well soon! Kitchen closed at 517, hooray. Hot water bottle and lots of ginger tea warmed me up in the end! I had a big plate of veg roasted with tiny bit of olive oil and rosemary- peppers, garlic, tomatoes, onions, courgettes, and a couple of potato wedges. Lovely and so easy to make.

DrWhy · 01/02/2018 22:19

Oh no BCF I hope it heals swiftly for you. My former boss has a significant visual impairment and he used to choose to do Team lunches rather than dinners whenever he could. The odd dinner we did do he’d really struggle with the low lighting it seems to be very common in restaurants.
I had a lazy but just on TDEE NFD today, spin class today then gave blood this afternoon so treated myself to the post session 2 finger kitkat, not quite in line with no snacking but it’s only just over 100 cals. FD tomorrow and will need to remember to drink extra, might take some fruit teas into work to help keep me warm.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 22:21

Well done, Thursday fasters.
Now have an early night ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 22:21

Good for you, giving blood, DrWhy Thanks

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 01/02/2018 22:26

Oh no BCF, really hope your on the mend soon. What dreadful timing.

Cheshire I usually always save all my calories for my evening meal on FD. If I really need something either a cuppa soup or 2 slices of ham can get me through, I do suffer bad headaches so occasionally I do that:

This evening I’ve had

Jar of cockles - 100g drained - 82 cals
2 salad tomatoes - 30 cals
6 crab sticks - 114 cals
2 boiled eggs - 125 cals
2 medium pickled gerkins 50g - 34 cals
Pickled onions - 50g - 16 cals
Mature cheddar - 25g - 104 cals

With the eggs and tomatoes cut up it made a huge plateful. I kept thinking wow that’s loads of food.

I like to try and get as much food as possible for my cals. It’s quite fun tweeking things to see if it makes a difference for example on my FD omlyettes I now eliminate cheese and choose a extra egg I found it tastes no different.

DrWhy · 01/02/2018 22:33

Sorry, I mean yesterday was lazy, todays spin class was definitely not lazy!

Fionne · 01/02/2018 22:36

Its the middle of the night where I am and I'm awake so I'll update on my 800 calorie FD yesterday.

Breakfast - 2 fried eggs on 1 slice Rye toast.
Lunch - Chicken Salad
Dinner - Chicken and Veg casserole.

Its still taking a bit of time to not add oil/fat to something then removed it again but I have to admit I did enjoy my two fried eggs that a couple of weeks ago I wouldn't have considered for fear of having a heart attack an hour later.

Lunch - I wasnt going to have lunch but I ended up worn out after spending a very difficult hour trying to get a refund on a large electrical item I was wrongly sold so when I headed to Costa for a cup of Early Grey tea I had a really nice little Chilli Chicken salad as well. I ended up feeling much better once Id had it and not just because I had a spring in my step from making a good food choice when surrounded my muffins and what not. The salad only had 180 calories in it and that included the dressing which was just olive oil and some garlic.

Dinner - my chicken casserole.

By bed time I had 65 calories left but what Im really pleased about is that my goals were -

Carbs 20% - I had 21%
Fats 45% - I had 43%
Protein 35% - I had 36%

lt was quite and acheivment. Smile

BCF I hope your ankle is better soon,

and to everyone else here's to sick children getting better, family problems not being so bad today, and a good day for everyone just because!

Its the middle of the night here and I can't sleep because my brother and sister in law or on their way and Im all excited.

Fionne · 01/02/2018 22:40

Does anyone else wake up after their FD feeling really really hungry? I woke up at 4 beacuse I was chewing my arm off in my sleep

I just saw this and yes I wake up the next day starving and though Im awake now, its the middle of the night where I am, and Ive said its because Im excited my brother will be here in a few hours the truth is that Im also really hungry.

Quacking - I play around on MFP as well.

juicygirly · 02/02/2018 08:50

Morning all! Today will be a mini FD due to chickenwrapgate last night !!!

Dd2 is off sick and has just dropped a full glass of orange juice which nicely decorated the walls.

It's going to be a long day.

MazDazzle · 02/02/2018 09:31

Oh no juicy. That sucks! Hope your DD is better soon,

Sorry to hear about your ankle BC and what rotten timing.

Yesterday was a NFD and I logged everything on MFP. It’s been 5 years since I started 5:2. My TDEE is getting lower with age. Can someone remind me how to change my daily calorie goal on MFP? I’m using my iPhone.

purpleviolet1 · 02/02/2018 09:46

Morning all,

BCF sorry to hear about your ankle Sad speedy recovery x

FD here whose with me? May have a soup for lunch or hold out until dinner.

QQ - I would like to start some weight training but not sure what weight to buy? Be gentle as I'm a beginner .... Something that will challenge me and be decent enough to use for a while

Fionne · 02/02/2018 09:48

To change daily goals you go into ‘my premium features then click on ‘change goals by day’.

Fionne · 02/02/2018 09:50

Is anyone here also using the GL value of food when making food choices?

quackingduck222 · 02/02/2018 09:54

Maz I’ve just had a look on MFP for you and I honestly don’t know how to change it. I’ve done it in the past but recently I’d updated my weight and for some reason my daily calories changed and I don’t know how to change it back. It’s annoying.
It’s also altered my DOB and made me age 10 years Grin

Juicy il join your club both my dd and DH are both currently snotting up the place. DH managed to knock a pint of squash all up the wall paper and new bedroom furniture this morning too.

HLBug · 02/02/2018 10:06

Oh BCF that's just rubbish - I hope your colleagues were sympathetic and didn't make you feel embarrassed. As Best said up thread, at least it happened after your yummy meal rather than before- that would've been even worse!! Do you have any good friends you can call on if you need some help getting around? Good luck with your GP appointment today.

My FD yesterday ended on about 550 kcals. Weigh in this morning and I've STS at 9st 11lbs which is normal for me after a whoosh. I've also been exceptionally lazy this week due to yucky cold and accompanying sinusitis. So my TDEE has probably been more like my BMR Blush

Looking forward to a good few sensible NFDs over the weekend, and hopefully will start to feel better soon too. I hope everyone else who is poorly or who is suffering with poorly children has a better weekend.

HLBug · 02/02/2018 10:08

Oh and Maz on MFP app go to "More" (three dots at bottom right) then "Goals" then "Calorie and Macronutrient Goals" and you can change the amount there.

southeastlondonmum · 02/02/2018 11:29

Checking on a FD. It is TOTM but have only had two teas this morning some water and herbal. Thinking about holding out to a reasonable dinner

Swipe left for the next trending thread