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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
quackingduck222 · 01/02/2018 17:14

Mother of - that’s fantastic your joining a gym. I swear a bit of Exercise gives you a real boost. That’s such a positive thing!

Buttered a lb is great, it’s in the right direction and your loosing cms and your clothes are fitting better so that’s fantastic.

Ouch come on you got this! Sending positive thoughts

Juicy - wow incredible you doing b2b, hope your children get better soon.

Mother of four - yep deffo draw a line, these things happen. Just do what you gotta do to look after yourself and start a fresh next week.

Im on a FD not eaten and managed to pull a 3 mile run outta the bag. Where did that come from. That’s a real turn up from the books as I am well was before January a right lazy so and so.

m0therofdragons · 01/02/2018 17:26

FD going well and to plan so far. I really need bedtime as dc are being rather needy tonight.

FourDragons - sorry you're having a bad week. Hope all okay. You can get back into it Thanks

purpleviolet1 · 01/02/2018 17:54

Buttered - my tdee is 1500 so even slower here! But as you say slowly but surely it is coming off..

peachypips · 01/02/2018 18:02

Oh juicy that's crap- I'm sure this has been the worst winter I've ever had for illness. My eldest had a temp this morning and my youngest didn't want any dinner! Stay strong today- just remember if you cave in today you'll have to fast tomorrow and you've nearly made it through today. Have a tsp of marmite, three pickled onions and a fruit tea Grin

Sorry you've had a bad week Motheroffour- it's really a mental game isn't it? Hope you are ok.

Kitchen closing at 1,900 (TDEE).

Haven't done enough steps today as I've been stuck behind a desk. Looking forward to a big run and body pump tomorrow. It's going to be sunny here so I'm going to run on the seafront.

CheshireSplat · 01/02/2018 19:05

Had a good FD today. Just made a cup of tea which has taken me over the 500 limit but it's cold and filling! Better deliberate sabotage than my scotch egg last week!

I've done 2 FDs this week and 2 days where I've MFPd and have come in under my 1600 TDEE. Discovered to my horror that DH's TDEE is 2300 and we often eat and drink the same (though he eats lots more biscuits than me). So that'll be partly when I'm overweight (as BCF) pointed out previously. You know so much!

DH got me Kate Harrison's 5:2 Good Food Kitchen for some recipe inspiration (I know theres a 5:2 thread but I like books for finding recipes). Who's she then? A Johnny Come Lately cashing in on Mr Mosley's revolution??!!!

CheshireSplat · 01/02/2018 19:08

PS for both the dragon mothers, there was a Motheroflittledragons on a thread last night. Hope she doesn't start 5:2!!!

MightyMunki · 01/02/2018 19:16

Kitchen closed today at 549, tough one today, my sinuses are all blocked so nothing has tasted as good as it should’ve.

2kidsnopets · 01/02/2018 19:24

I'm done at 1800 today (tdee 1900ish).
Going to try and do tomorrow as a 16;8 because we've got curry for tea and I don't want it to undo my good work!
Shouldn't be too hard as I finished dinner 6pm this evening so I can easily do until midday tomorrow and have a salad for lunch.
Not eating bread makes a big difference to how I feel

HandMini · 01/02/2018 19:24

Hi 5/2 Army

I fell off the fast day wagon spectacularly yesterday.

A colleague brought cake into work and I had a piece in the afternoon thinking I would just not eat anything else for the rest of the day.

Predictably it set off a massive sugar rush followed by a crash-carb-craving so I the ate loads of crap in the evening when I got home.

Oh well, can’t win em all. And I did enjoy the cake.

Mini FD today to get back on it. Brown rice and veggies for lunch. Same again for tea.

slinkyme · 01/02/2018 19:27

Mother of four sending you Thanks. Be kind to yourself.

So it was definitely a toast and comfort food day. Will FD tomorrow.

Well done to all the fasters and losers. Stay strong for those needing it at the moment.

quackingduck222 · 01/02/2018 19:40

Kitchen closed at 504 cals. I ate like a king tonight so much food for 500 cals.

My lot are coming down with yet another bug, brought home from school.

Blimey 2 kids are you really tall? Jealous of your TDEE mines only 1400. But I’m vertically challenged.

CheshireSplat · 01/02/2018 19:48

quacking do you mind saying what you are today? I need some inspiration. Don't eat much meat (but can do) seem to default to omlette in the evening and soup at lunch.

BlueBelle123 · 01/02/2018 19:52

FD has gone surprisingly well, kitchen closed at 440 and I've even had a trip to the gym.

Since the beginning of January I've really been in the zone and I'm wondering if its due to 16:8, no snacking and no pepsi MaxSad, I'm probably tempting fate and next week will see me spectacularly falling of the wagon.

Good luck to all fellow Thursday fasters nearly there!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 19:54

Well done on your SV, parsnips
Your low TDEE means loss is likely to he slower than average, but stay focused, be mindful on NFDs and you can reach goal

It's a WOL not a race

motherof four Just concentrate on sensible NFDs tomorrow and over the weekend, so you don't add on extra to lose
Plan your FD menu in advance
Then first thing Monday morning, weigh yourself to get a baseline … then start fasting

Lots of success stories here, so you know it works. Now do this for yourself

OP posts:
BlueBelle123 · 01/02/2018 19:56

Cheshire I made a quorn cottage pie except the topping was mashed swede and carrot and no potato (probably not cottage pie at all!) with veg, its tasty and filling.

Butteredparsn1ps · 01/02/2018 20:02

Thank You for all the encouragement and well done to all the fasters today.

I've been cold so needed a lot of willpower (and tea) to avoid snacking, this afternoon, but have held out & actually finished the day at about 1500 calories.

Special well done to those with low TDEEs. It takes creativity as well as willpower doesn't it?

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 20:22

Aaargh, I hate it when restaurants have dark mysterious lighting even on the stairs Angry
For those of us with visual handicaps it can ruin an evening … and maybe the next few weeks too Sad

We all had a lovely evening, 3 courses of great food; my team gave me the perfect most thoughtful presents & card which I loved
then leaving, I didn't see the last few steps and crash-landed, ended up lying on top of a twisted ankle
I feel such a clumsy twat for not holding on to the stair-rail the last few steps
I didn't have any alcohol, btw, it's all down to forgetting how careful I have to be now, in places I don't know

So, I'm currently applying RICE to a badly sprained ankle - raised on cushions, ice / compression, rest - and I'll probably phone my GP in the morning for an appointment - it's always same day service here in Germany

I have a very busy few weeks, clearing out my current flat - furniture and 100s of books - before moving into a new flat near the Rhine.
atm, it feels like all those plans will have to be delayed a few weeks.

Bugger ! Angry

OP posts:
BlueBelle123 · 01/02/2018 20:27

Oh BCF that's such bad luck I hope you make a speedy recovery........I guess it could of been worse you could of tripped going in!

juicygirly · 01/02/2018 20:28

Regarding tdee chat, I just put mine and was shocked as to why my TDE was showing as 504 calories Shock ... then went back to check my details and realised I'd put my age as 233 instead of 33

GrinGrinGrinGrin

Needed to remind myself that it's actual age they want and not how old you feel this evening Grin

juicygirly · 01/02/2018 20:30

Awww no BCF really sorry to hear you've injured yourself ! Please be careful and look after yourself Flowers

TalkinPeace · 01/02/2018 20:32

(((( Bigchoc ))))
My stupid twisted ankle was back in November and its still slowing me down - look after yourself

snail
On fast days, bundle up : I have a lovely regatta fleece hoodie with a through pocket
I wear a cheap decathlon thermal top under it
and drink a lot of tea
then I'm no longer cold Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 20:40

juicy GrinI'm another one who ise feeling 233 years old at,

I agree, tip I have fleece hoodies that are perfect for winter FDs
And I have a hot Bovril, hot hibiscus tea (plain, unsweetened)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 20:41

oops ipad trying to post in German ! Feeling 233 years old too

OP posts:
Butteredparsn1ps · 01/02/2018 21:01

Aw BCF sorry about your ankle. Hope the RICE therapy works and it’s less swollen and painful in the morning. Flowers

OuchBollocks · 01/02/2018 21:25

FD was a total failure.

BCF hope your ankle is better in the morning. Stupid unreliable joints. Stupid dark restaurants.