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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BlueBelle123 · 01/02/2018 07:42

Wow Bestbees how do I follow thatGrin

FD for me today so fione I will be keeping you company. It's an unusual day for me working at home this morning till I have to take DS for a hospital appointment (3 hr round trip!) then this evening hoping to go to the gym tonight as well. Lunch I thought I would have ham sandwich but swap the bread for lettuceSmile, dinner is still work in progress!

Well done to everyone love reading all your posts!!

slinkyme · 01/02/2018 07:47

So NFD yesterday and a work event meant a plush 3 course lunch with plenty of wine. Feeling very much worse for wear this morning. Wondering whether I do a FD today or not and skip to tomorrow.

Wondering if eating that toast will help the hangover of best not to eat anything and get a FD in that way. Any thoughts?

quackingduck222 · 01/02/2018 07:50

Well done Bees that’s fantastic!

Fionne, don’t be silly. Your loosing weight aren’t you? Your just doing a slightly modified version of 5:2 as your pulling back on your NFD. Your doing amazing.

My measurements losses are in for January
Bust: -1.5 inches
Under bust: 1.5 inches
Tummy: 1.5 inches
Waist: 3 inches
Thighs: 3 inches

Made up about the thighs as they are my widest point by far. But my waist could of done without loosing as it’s my narrowest point.

FD today who’s joining me?

2kidsnopets · 01/02/2018 08:12

Morning all.
I weighed this morning and apparently have lost 1.9kg (almost 4lbs) since Monday.
Would be delighted if that loss stays but I'm taking it with a fat pinch of salt as I've now got 4nfd before Monday which I've designated as official weigh-day.
Feel like I have a hangover this morning. I can only assume that it's sugar withdrawal.
Coffee and porridge is helping though.
Good luck to those fasting today.

Pumperthepumper · 01/02/2018 08:45

Thanks BCF, I will. Feeling loads better today but still can’t really face eating, going to make some breakfast soon. So you do two mini fasts instead of two FD?

I won’t be starting again for a week or so, too tired to think about it properly but would like to get it right when I do!

peachypips · 01/02/2018 08:59

Re salivating Maz- does anyone find their mouth literally waters at the thought of food on a FD?!

I love having lots of kids about. I come from a big family and I always feel sad I couldn't have more children due to the bipolar. I have two of my own and a foster son who is older.

Choc- I have a shop nearby who sell the Willie's cacao. Is it mega bitter?

Poor you pamper- hope you get to rest today.

Juicy- I was the same re hunger attacking in late afternoon! You might find you wake up this morning not that bothered about food even though you were hungry last night.

Bestbees- you aren't my colleague are you? She messaged our WhatsApp group last night saying she'd done a headstand in yoga!

Happy Thursday everyone.

HLBug · 01/02/2018 09:00

Bestbees that's a brilliant loss for January, well done you!

I'm still feeling rubbish but going to attempt a FD today anyway. Might bump it up to 6-700 kcals if I'm struggling.

purpleviolet1 · 01/02/2018 09:28

Having family over this evening spur of the moment thing so will do FD tomorrow now. Fridays are tough but whose with me??

Will also have to skip Pilates tonight but will go sat morning instead.

Great losses and NSV's too, really motivating! Keep it up! Love this thread ❤️

Bestbees · 01/02/2018 09:54

Maybe peachy......ShockWink

snailhunter · 01/02/2018 09:55

Hello, fellow FDers! Some amazing losses here to keep me motivated, so thanks very much! Am working in the house today rather than the garden office, dammit, as am waiting for our first consignment of puppy food to arrive. So will just have to keep my mind off food by working really hard and browsing puppy toys...I still haven't tried proper exercise on an FD but have a walk down into town planned for my 3-5pm danger zone to get new running shoes - my old ones now have a massive hole in them so I suspect they are past their best.

2kidsnopets · 01/02/2018 10:14

peachy the wilies cacao has nothing added so it's not sweet at all. I wouldn't exactly call it bitter, more savoury. It's designed to be used as an ingredient not for eating raw. I added 5g of the block grated into my porridge this morning and it was really really good.

snailhunter · 01/02/2018 10:17

Incidentally, I've just realised that what I find hardest on FDs is not the hunger but the cold. I'm a cold person anyway but I'm sitting here with the heating on and a quilt over me and considering getting a hot water bottle...

OuchBollocks · 01/02/2018 10:32

snailhunter I was just thinking this morning how much easier I found fast days during the summer when it was warm.

BlueBelle123 · 01/02/2018 10:43

snailhunter you are definitely on to something there as I having a FD and I am absolutely freezing......too tight to put the heating on, as going out soonish!!

MightyMunki · 01/02/2018 11:19

Checking in for my FD. Struggling a bit today, think my glands are swollen.

juicygirly · 01/02/2018 11:46

Hello all! Just checking in with another FD , b2b with ydays FD and peachy you were right, I did wake up not bothered about food although I've had a slice of toast (urgent carb requirements!) with my morning cup of tea as it was a rough night with the baby and dd2 was up for 6:30am with peppa pig on full volume 🤦🏻‍♀️

I am currently on the sofa with the baby having bathed and fed her and she's about to drift off .. still in my pjs and not even bothered putting my lenses in yet so I guess you can call it a lazy sofa day !!!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 12:09

mighty Concentrate on drinking water
Have a hot beef Bovril too, if you have some cubes. Or a teasp Marmite

Congrats on your SV and headstand NSV, bestbees - being 9lb lighter probably made a difference there

Congrats on your inches NSV, duck
No downside to a leaner waist - unless your waist / height is now at 0.35 - in which case STOP losing, because you need at least a minimum amount of bodyfat for good health

Well done on your SV too, 2kids
If you keep the NFDs sensible, you should hold on to most of the loss

Fionne You are on 800 FDs, because that is 5:2 BSD - you are going lower on carbs the other 5 days, when most others are just eating normally.
Daily low carb is powerful enough for Mosely to specify 800 cals on the FDs

peachy I choose mild tasting 90%+ cocoa choc of the highest quality I can find.
< puts on choc expert hat Wink >

I used to have Lindt Mild Excellence 90% cocoa (available in most large supermarkets)

I've now discovered and switched over to the delicious Vivani 92% organic vegan cocoa choc (maybe only in health shops in the UK ? >
It's sweetened with coconut blossom sugar and the cocoa is Premium from Panama, which gives it a surprisingly mild and delicate taste for such a high cocoa choc.
It's very low in sugar, only 1.2g in 20g choc, about a couple of squares

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2018 12:18

slinky if your hangover is bad enough to need toast, probably best to move the FD to another day.

Preparation for fasting:
The evening before an FD, I advise a limit of 1 glass wine and also avoiding sweet or junky carbs; otherwise the FD is likely to be tough.

pumper Best to delay fasting until you are fully fit after illness and definitely at least 2 days after any antibiotic course finishes

I sometimes do 2 FDs, if it has been a busy social week, like this one:
A couple of 3-course meals out already and tonight I'm taking the team (11 of us) out to a steak restaurant - all on me, so just as well the FDs help my wallet ! Grin

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 01/02/2018 12:46

BCF the first thing I checked after measurements is the waist height ratio calculator you linked me too months back as I was slightly open mouthed that my waist has reduced a inch in a week despite no movement on scales. Also 2 inches on thighs with no exercise and no loss this week. Sounded a bit too good to be true.

I’m currently at 0.36 with 2.8 lbs to target. If I can magic it off my thighs and tummy and leave my waist alone I will be most pleased Grin

m0therofdragons · 01/02/2018 12:47

Okay, yesterday I was completely giving up but feeling much better after a night's sleep and am joining our local gym tonight with its lovely pool. FD today (not actually using gym tonight just filling in forms).

So far I've had coffee plus soup 118 calories. Different soup planned for tea. FD need to be easy for me.

Butteredparsn1ps · 01/02/2018 13:11

Weighed again this morning after yesterday's second FD of the week and have lost a LB. As my TDEE is 1700, the FD's only give me a 2,400 calorie deficit so I am going to have to be in this for the long haul.

On a more positive note, I have lost more CM from my waist and hips and my clothes are definitely fitting better.

OuchBollocks · 01/02/2018 15:21

Hungry. Bored at work. Struggling...

juicygirly · 01/02/2018 16:53

Oh great! Got a call from school to say dd2 has been sick so rushed in to pick her up , had to arrange another mum to pick up dd1 - who is also complaining of a stomach ache 😩 Just finished cleaning (and mopping the floors with dettol, a strong compulsion I have if I so much as hear of any kind sickness !) cleaning DONE, dinner is on, baby is asleep and I am just about getting into the shower and out of my pjs.. 🤦🏻‍♀️ please God, no more poorly children.

juicygirly · 01/02/2018 16:53

And I forgot to add, this is my second b2b FD but I am sooo hungry and tired right now I can cry !

Motheroffourdragons · 01/02/2018 16:55

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