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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MazDazzle · 31/01/2018 19:04

Kitchen closed after successful b2b FD.

It was tough in the morning and when I was making dinner I was getting a bit frazzled with 3 kids under my feet.

Survived on water and coffee through the day. Had roast veg & chicken for dinner. I have Diet Coke in the fridge if I’m struggling this evening.

How did you get on peachy?

Well done to all the other Tuesday fasters!

2kidsnopets · 31/01/2018 19:16

Well done you, don't think I could survive b2b with the kids!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 19:16

Well done on your SV, mighty and congrats on your pre-baby weight milestone

Thanks for the Mosely link, bug Smile

Espresso Your naughty cats ! ShockGrin
On the exercise thread, one of the tips I give for fasted training is to glug a (black) double espresso about 10 mins before
It helps mobilise your bodyfat for burning as fuel, hence can boost both performance & training.
Your username suggests you might like to build this into your routine Wink

olive That's kind (/ greedy ?) of your DH to keep the treats in the car, out of your way
but … I don't want to read you posting that you've been licking crumbs off his car seat < stern finger wag Wink>

maz, peachy You are doing so well on the b2b, not long to go now.

handmini, peachy Halloumi is another excellent cheese for FDs - grilled or fried

ouch I learned to make choc treats occasional by first cutting them out every other day,
then 2:5ing them, i.e. only on 2 NFDs a week.

Those with T2/ preT2 generally do much better with cutting out such treats totally,
but most of the rest of us can enjoy an occasional treat
I find that keeping them occasional - atm once a month for me - made them more enjoyable than when I had treats most days.

I count 90/92% cocoa choc as a health food, so I have a square most days
I'm even trying 99% in my porridge - 99% is too harsh on its own, but quite nice melted with my porridge & cashew milk.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 19:21

2kids Best to avoid fruit on its own, whether FD or NFD: the sugar spike will probably make you very hungry an hour or two later.

Best to have protein, e.g. a few nuts, or a couple tbsp of fullfat Greek yoghurt or Skyr

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 19:23

Well done on nailing your b2b, Maz
Have you closed the kitchen yet on yours, peachy ?

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 31/01/2018 20:23

Well done maz & peachy on your b2b.

Ouch I broke my non sugar fast last week too. I’ve actually enjoyed not being a slave to sweet treats and I may consider giving it another go another month as I’m loving not having the cravings.

BCF I was thinking about your recommendation of that 90% Lindor chocolate today. Is it the extra dark choc or something like that?

Can you tell it’s the end of my no month of junk month Grin

I am hoping abstaining from all junk (bar pudding on my night out last week) I can start having the occasional treat from now on. All in moderation I’m aiming for anyway.

Iamblossom · 31/01/2018 20:53

BCF do you still do 2 fds? Surely this means you are still losing weight?

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2018 20:56

iamblossom
DH and I still vaguely fast two days a week .... we aim for around 800 calories
but with a low BMI and TDEE, the deficit is not enough to lose further weight

Iamblossom · 31/01/2018 20:56

Managed to get to 7pm completely on track and then had two gins. So today is officially a mini fd.

peachypips · 31/01/2018 20:57

I'll go on after this and add you juicy if you send me your details.

Maz - I have been the opposite to you- fine all day but now am very hungry. Going to bed at 9:30. Kitchen closed at exactly 500 according to mfp but I've eaten some pickled onions since then Grin As well as my 3 boys I had my friend's three girls after school so feel your pain re hungry frazzled dinner time!

Good tip re halloumi. I really like it- maybe a halloumi and veg kebab...

I have a square of 90% dark every NFD after dinner as it stops my snacking dead for some odd reason. Only food I've ever found that does this! I particularly enjoy the Lidl 81%. Delicious.

Night all. I am so looking forward to tomorrow!

MazDazzle · 31/01/2018 21:20

That’s 6 kids peachy! I could not have handled that today. Well done you!

I’m salivating at the thought of halloumi and chocolate. Not together, obviously!

Snacking on sweet things has always been my downfall. When I’m craving biscuits I try to go for ryvita with cream cheese and houmous. It has the crunch of a biscuit and very satisfying.

Off to bed before I ruin today’s efforts.

2kidsnopets · 31/01/2018 21:21

I'm done for the day on 486.
I've drunk loads today so I'm feeling pleased with myself.

My two things that help if I'm craving sugar or chocolate are sula sugar free licorice gums (4cal each) or a lindt dark chocolate Swiss thin. They are super thin squares of chocolate and only weigh a couple of grams so only 15cal each. I buy them in airport shops but maybe you can get them online too.

2kidsnopets · 31/01/2018 21:27

Oh, and for 100% cacao I like the Willies one that you can get in big round blocks. I know waitrose sell it but not sure where else.

Pumperthepumper · 31/01/2018 21:38

Hi everyone, I posted at the beginning of the week saying I had flu, it’s actually tonsillitis Sad. I’m on antibiotics for the next few days so think I’ll restart fasting next week just so I’m all better. My appetite has been terrible this week, really couldn’t face anything so now I’m starting to feel better I’m going to ease myself back into it.

Anyway, that’s where I’m at this week but I was wondering - how do mini fasts work? I’ve seen them mentioned a few times but couldn’t find any more information about it.

Unescorted · 31/01/2018 21:54

I have managed another fd. Came in a shade under 400. The don't eat anything until supper method appears to be working. The family have taken it on board so we're happy with soup and crusty rolls. I just had the soup with kale in to make it more substantial looking.

Another HIIT session as well. I am feeling very hungry still as a result. Having said that the combination of exercise to tone and fd is already working - my clothes are noticeably looser even after a week. I need to get some scales to check progress on the weight front, although I am tempted to wait until I have been doing it for a month or so.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement 😀

OliveBranchColins · 31/01/2018 22:20

No seat licking BCF had a huge stir fry for dinner {minus the noodles}
All joking aside munching my way through bowls of dry cereal while I'm working on the computer is a habit I really need to kick. I can spend hrs on Mumsnet etc without snacking, but start any serious work and out come the shreddies.

CheshireSplat · 31/01/2018 22:48

Pumper poor you. Tonsillitis is horrid. A mini fast is eating 1000 calories in a day. I normally see them in the context of a FD going wrong and using them to minimise damage. It wouldn’t replace the FD though, you’d have to do it another day.

Did anyone watch Michael Mosley on television. I was watching a little delayed and it was rather harsh to be shooting those cookies and describing their smell before the watershed!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 23:19

Blossom 5:2 is my maintenance plan - talkinpeace does the same, I think and aha has been maintaining 4 years
2FDs lets us regularly eat more on NFDs
Very useful for those of us who are post-meno and / or greedy Wink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 23:26

Sorry to hear aout your tonsillitis, pumper
Stay warm, drink lots of water and get well soon Thanks

MiniFDs are 700-1000 calories
Same rules as FD: no alcohol whatsoever, no junk food, preferably no added sugar

They would be a good way to ease back into fasting gently
They should provide some health benefits, but not as quick loss as FDs, if your TDEE is not very high - but with returning after illness, speed of loss should not be a consideration.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 23:31

Well done on your loose clothes NSV, unescorted and on another successful FD - sounds like you have a good system now

When you weigh, I suggest you measure too:

  • waist - at narrowest point, usually about 2" above the navel
  • hips - at widest point, which maybe at top of the thighs
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 23:33

pumper If you are taking antibiotics, WAIT at least a couple of days until you have finished the course, before fasting.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 23:34

pumper If you are taking antibiotics, WAIT at least a couple of days until after you have finished the course, before fasting.

OP posts:
juicygirly · 01/02/2018 00:41

FD done for the day under 500. I was absolutely fine till I ate at 4ish and then the hunger kicked in! All in all a very good day and I managed to control myself ! Was planning on a b2b FD tomorrow but don't know if I can do it 😩 dc have swimming and it's a two hour wait... although it might just kill the time as I don't eat there anyway ! I'll see how I feel in the morning but I'm very hungry right now so think it's time for bed!

Well done on everyone's successful FDs. Onwards and upwards Smile

Fionne · 01/02/2018 06:25

Good morning everyone,

It’s a FD for me but on 800 calories I still feel like a fraud. So far I’ve had 2 eggs, one toast and half a teaspoon of butter.

I’m going to skip lunch because I really do like the physical feeling of my body working efficiently. Or perhaps that’s my vivid imagination speaking but at least I know what I mean 😊

Dinner wise it’s a chicken and veg casserole.

Carb wise I’m doing really well on my NFD and I’m down to about 70gms a day m

Well done to everyone for giving this a go and for trying to get back to really good health. So what if there are stops and starts along the way as long as there’s always another start.

Bestbees · 01/02/2018 06:34

9.12! So that is 9lb gone in january!!

Nsv did a head stand in yoga easily. Everyone impressed!