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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OliveBranchColins · 31/01/2018 08:08

Checking in for a FD. Wish me luck as I'm stuck in the house waiting for a gas engineer and doing my tax return. I have taken the procaution of putting anything tempting in the boot of DH's car which is 40 mile away todayGrin

DrWhy · 31/01/2018 08:44

Thanks for the almond suggestion BCF.
Yesterday was the worst FD ever, no idea why, I barely noticed last weeks. I was hungry all day but on top of that I was just utterly miserable and grumpy and freezing cold. Had a big rant at work that I probably shouldn’t have had, came home and spent most of the evening either moaning, snapping or crying. I am back at work full time and missing my toddler horribly, work is hideous so I feel like I’m missing his babyhood for something I don’t even enjoy and isn’t using my qualifications. It all seemed to stack up on top of having a FD to be totally awful. I’m Feeling a bit better this morning despite very limited sleep and not yet having eaten, wierd, hoping it doesn’t happen again.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 08:50

Bluebelle I suggest, before your FD tomorrow, you make sure your 16:8 meals are sufficiently filling:
protein, masses of veg, good quality starchy carbs

No need for something after your evening run, but if you feel hungry, I advise protein, not fruit on its own (the high GI will spike insulin and may make you hungry in the mońrning)
e.g. a few spoons of natural Greek yoghurt with berries and a few almond flakes. Or just a hardboiled egg with salt & pepper.

Well done on your SV, southeast

Why you feel hungry on FDs
At 5'11" and 11 stone 2 lb, your BMi is only 21.8 now
You are losing pretty quickly for this BMI and your body is having to dig deep to find bodyfat for fuel on FDs.

The usual rate of loss at this weight is below 1lb per week
You would be more comfortable if you ate a bit more and slow down loss slightly.

Do you just feel hungry on FDs ?
Then move to 800 cal FDs
With your height, you have a high TDEE, so you should still lose reasonably

Do you feel hungry on NFDs too ?
If so, check you are eating up to TDEE and also lower the GI of your meals - reviewing the amount of sugary / caby treats

OP posts:
peachypips · 31/01/2018 08:54

Day 2 of fasting b2b. Feel pretty good- not that bothered about eating today which is great. I think b2b might suit me.

Blessings Wed fasters!

MightyMunki · 31/01/2018 08:55

I feel your pain drwhy I’ve had some that were better than others. Hope your day today is much better.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 09:05

Well done on your exercise NSV, bestbees
You sound really focused and disciplined.

I hope the gas engineer and the tax return go well, olive
Sounds the sort of day when an FD is useful to keep you working out your frustration via the biscuit tin

Poor you, DrWhy It's miserable when you are unhappy with work / colleagues / boss because that is so many hours out of your life each week.
I hope work this is just a temporary phase and you feel better once you have got used to being away from your DC

motherofdragons As you are logging on the NFDs, over the week, do you have a calorie deficit ?
Very roughly, 3,000 cals weekly deficit averages out at 1lb weekly loss
Your body will often compensate for a much smaller weekly deficit of 1000 and sts for a long time, or just lose 1lb per month.

It sounds like 4:3 is stressing you out and that 5:2 would be better - less tendency to eat so much on NFDs if you have them more frequently;
The extra FD on 4:3 tips the balance from normal eating most of the week (5:2) towards fasting nearly half the week, which can interfere with life too much.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2018 09:07

Sounds good, peachy
Most folk find b2b too tough, whereas a few folk do find it easiest

OP posts:
MightyMunki · 31/01/2018 09:41

Just weighed in and I’m down 7.5lbs / 3.4kg since I started this. And that takes me down to my pre-baby weightGrin.

I’m aiming for another 10kg, onwards and downwards hopefully.

HLBug · 31/01/2018 09:42

Olive your post made me chuckle - how much stuff did you put in his boot?! Hahaha!

DrWhy you need a big and some Thanks and maybe even some medicinal Wine My maternity leave ends in 2 weeks so I know how you're feeling. Just imagine how worse things would be if you started comfort eating. Is there any extra exercise you can fit in to help with the happy hormones? I keep going by taking sheer delight in DS (3) telling me all the exciting things he's been up to at nursery and therefore know that he's having a brilliant time (and much more fun than he would be stuck with me!) And I'm sure DD (9 months) will start having fun there too once she decides to stop her hunger strike

So, BCF, latest word from Dr M is that your advice is spot on once again - HIIT is the way to go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42864061?ocid=socialflowfacebook&nssmchannel=social&nscampaign=bbcnews&nsssource=facebook

Oh, and did you get that new flat you were looking at?

purpleviolet1 · 31/01/2018 10:20

Munki that is fantastic! You must be so pleasedGrin well done

Thanks for the article hlbug. Interesting stuff.

Olive made me chuckle too!

Not looking forward to returning to work after ML either so you have my sympathy!

m0therofdragons · 31/01/2018 10:31

I didn't log Saturday or Sunday but had been under the rest of the week. I wasn't really aiming for 4:3 but with the weekend coming I felt a 3rd day would give me more wiggle room. As I said, I didn't expect a loss due to the weekend but didn't expect such a big gain. I seem to just look at cake and the weight goes on. I think it's age 😩

MazDazzle · 31/01/2018 10:48

Well done on the exercise Bestbees. That’s very impressive.

That’s fantastic that you’ve reached pre-baby weight Mighty. It’s a huge milestone. I have 6 lbs to go until I’m at pre-DC weight.

DrWhywhere are you on your monthly cycle? Might that be a factor in your tough FD? Sorry you are having a rough time with work and missing your little one. SadFlowers

MazDazzle · 31/01/2018 10:50

peachy I think I might join you on a double FD today. Today would be the easiest day to fast and it’s a thought having to do one tomorrow or Fri.

HandMini · 31/01/2018 11:09

Hi all, just a v quick check in as am at work so supposed to be, we, working!! Grin

FD on Monday went well. Tea and water until supper then a feta salad. Only 100cals worth of feta but it crumbled up really well to cover a lot of leaves and veg so felt like a good FD protein.

FD again today. So far just water....

juicygirly · 31/01/2018 12:02

Yesterday's FD went tits up so I'm going again today ! So far so good, had a half cup of tea the other half dd3 spilt all over my bedroom floor

Anyone got a Fitbit that they want to pal up on??

Iamblossom · 31/01/2018 13:45

juicy I would, and do a workweek hustle with my sister and DH but I have hurt my thigh with all my running so will do it next week with you if you like?

FD today - one cracker and two eggs so far. Got totally distracted driving to bath and went the wrong way, added an hour to my journey!

EspressoMartiniToGo · 31/01/2018 13:58

Second fast day of the week well underway for me. Trained quite hard this morning too, hill runs, weighted lunges and a tabata, but felt fine. I had a strong black coffee before gym so maybe my bod was fooled into thinking it had energy, when it just had caffeine!
Had a protein shake after gym, thats 140 cal, then I'll have a quorn stir fry later. Would have had salmon, but the cats found it defrosting and broke through the packaging to tear off some lumps! Think they're hungrier than I am...or just greedy little feckers.
Good luck to all fasters today.

OuchBollocks · 31/01/2018 14:00

FD tomorrow. Working a late shift so will try to eat nothing until I get into work at 2 then have most of my calories at lunch again, then have a hard boiled egg and some miso soup in the evening.

I have fallen hard off the no sugar wagon. I find Lent motivating so will just try to take it easy for 2 weeks then quit again.

2kidsnopets · 31/01/2018 14:27

Hi all. I'm on a fast day today.
So far I've only had 2 coffees, 2 fruit teas and a stick of celery.
Have allowed an apple for mid afternoon slump and I've got salmon, broccoli and salad for dinner. Feeling OK so far but starting to get hungry.

peachypips · 31/01/2018 14:45

Maz do join me! I'm shocked at how easy it's been.

Handmini- feta is brilliant isn't it? Used it for first time on a FD this week.

I have a Fitbit juicy and lamb but no idea how to pal up or make that happen! Am willing tho

B2b fasting is a revelation to me. I normally dread fasting but doing it back to back has meant for me that on the second day I'm more used to going without food so cope much better mentally. So much of this food game is in the mind don't you think? I struggle far more with the mental than the physical wrt eating. Not even thought about food really today. I guess I'm a minority person!

OliveBranchColins · 31/01/2018 14:45

Tax return done, need a new sensor for my boiler, he will be back on Friday.
DH has all the cereals and the Jacobs crackers in his car. I would be eating them by the hand full otherwise

MazDazzle · 31/01/2018 15:42

I found it tough this morning peachy, but after my HIIT class I’m buzzing. And I’ve made it to half 3 without eating, so surely I’ll manage.

Roasting a chicken for dinner, so I’ll just have breast meat without the skin and pile on the veg.

Your workout sounds fab expresso! I love working out on a FD or the day after, before I’ve eaten. I like to think that my body is burning fat reserves rather than food!

juicygirly · 31/01/2018 17:21

Lamb and peachy let's DO THIS Grin I shall find out how to add people and BRB!

2kidsnopets · 31/01/2018 17:29

Dinner is in the oven but I've only eaten two sticks of celery all day and I'm so hungry I could chew my arm off.
thankfully my kids tormenting each other is keeping me busy enough to avoid snacking.

juicygirly · 31/01/2018 18:37

Right lamb and peachy if you go into your Fitbit app, tap on the community section at the bottom , then at the top select friends and 'add friend'. I can pm you my name or if it's easier, pm me yours and I can find you!

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