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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
2kidsnopets · 29/01/2018 21:59

Well I've finished my first FD and just under 500cals. So I'm happy. Just had lunch at 2pm and dinner of veg sticks and an apple at 6pm, nothing since apart from a sugar free gum.
I've made my overnight oats and I am looking forward to tucking in at 7.30 tomorrow!
Well done those with successful FD. I'm going to bear the prawn salad in mind for next week.

MazDazzle · 29/01/2018 22:09

I agree with Tip, having only one late meal on FD is so much easier once you get used to it. I also try to hold off from eating on NFD until 12pm at the earliest, but it’s not always easy.

Had a PT session today which was lots of fun. Managed to deadlift 85 kg (187 lb). It took my half a dozen attempts to get it off the ground. Next target is 2 reps! 5 mins of up hill jogging/walking/sprinting in the treadmill nearly killed me though. Blush

Need to do the food shop tomorrow, so I’ll make sure to stock up on lots of vegetables. Lamb, your NFD pub lunch and FD food both sound delicious!

slinkyme · 29/01/2018 22:22

Pets well done on completing first fast day. A great start.

Dazzle - that is seriously impressive.

FD done finished at just under 500 plus 2
McDonald's fries 😬

Justanothernap · 29/01/2018 22:23

cheshiresplat ahh I feel your pain after being what I thought was good I put on 2lbs, tried to be sensible & have a healthy coping system I.e running not biscuits, but oh sod it crept in & I ate beyond reason yesterday. But I'm back on it today, and MFPing everything & determined. Like others have said yours is prob water retention too.

purple ahh non-sleepers are the pits. All credit to anyone who fasts on broken sleep

dazzle well done on your deadlift NSV!

& well done to all the fasters today esp those on their first one. Mines all done on 540. Bedtime now I think.

m0therofdragons · 29/01/2018 23:05

Lovely weekend away with dh but that meant pubs, cider and lovely food so tomorrow is a FD and I'll get back on track. Was going to today but it's my boss' birthday so would have looked rude to ignore the cake. Tomorrow I'm back on it!

Fionne · 30/01/2018 03:51

Good morning everyone,

This is such a nice thread. I love it. It’s just so nice when people are happy for each other, and so encouraging when someone’s disappointed.

I had another SV yesterday. It was 2 pounds and that makes a total of about 7.4 kilos in 3 weeks. I know it will slow down soon but that’s ok.

I’m loving the talk of the weightlifting. It’s something I love doing but a non weightlifting related neck injury has me out of the game for now. In fact I’m just away up to a neighboring country again for the third of six injections of PRT I’m the hope I can avoid surgery and get well enough to enter the Crossfit open in 2019. I’d been gearing up for it next month but it’s not to be. I’m happy though that so many posters here are out there throwing big weights around and aiming to do more.

Last week when I was going for my injection it didn’t work out food wise from the outset due to daft travel things but today is looking better. I’m in the lounge and I’ve just had a good breakfast of what we call Shashouka. It’s eggs baked in a spicy tomato sauce and it was delicious and just what Dr Mosely ordered. Grin

Oh and I’ve git one of my new found outfits on. It’s a dress and quite fitted. It feels good but I’m sure I’ll regret the court shoes as the day goes on.

Have a great day everyone. 😊

MelanieCheeks · 30/01/2018 07:06

Mmmm, waking up after a great nights sleep after yesterday's FD.

I made a lovely salad for dinner-the recipe calls itself " beetroot detox salad", though I'm usually suspicious of the word detox.

1/2 cup each of grated beetroot, carrot and apple
Dressing 1 tablespoon apple cider vinegar, 1 tsp honey, grated ginger and olive oil. Garnish with flat leaf parsley.

That's for 2 portions, says 76 calories per serve. I've got the leftovers for my lunch today.

HLBug · 30/01/2018 07:43

Good morning! Checking in for a Tuesday FD Smile

quackingduck222 · 30/01/2018 07:59

Well done 2kids and unescorted on your FDs.

Well done purple for getting back in the swing of things. And for doing Pilates. Did you enjoy it?

I’ve been looking round for a class I was hoping to do dancing either Zumba or shbam but there is nothing round by me that I can make, it must be old hat now as a couple of years ago Zumba was everywhere.

So I’m going to sign up for another 25 mile run for February as I need to do something, since I’ve completed it I’ve not done any running so it’s clearly my motivation.

Had planned on going into maintenance this week but plan to hold off until next week now as I’m not quite there yet.

peachypips · 30/01/2018 08:54

Sorry I disappeared for a few days! I've changed my FDs to Tues and Thurs as I was finding it hard to overcome the Monday blues whilst fasting!

Can you do your FDs back to back? So Tues and Wed?

Well done everyone for various victories. I have been terrible over the last week on my NFDs so have gained a bit. Hoping after two FDs I'll be back to my previous weight and then I can continue with my controlled NFDs.

Iamblossom · 30/01/2018 08:57

Morning.

Another pound off this morning after fd yesterday, and am planning to stick to 1500 today.

Feel totally in the zone. Loved my breakfast of toast egg and tomato, and dh has made a vat of broccoli and blue cheese soup for dinner tonight. Planning second fd tomorrow, will have same menu as yesterday as didn't feel hungry once!

Good luck everyone fasting today.

GrannyPenny · 30/01/2018 08:58

Morning all - just checking in quickly and will catch up on what's been happening these last few days later - you have been a chatty lot!

I had a bit of a carb heavy weekend so the scales are blipped in the wrong direction. I will haul myself back on track today.

Goals - Gym class this morning; eat slightly under TDEE; drink more (caffeine free) tea and less coffee.

Iamblossom · 30/01/2018 08:58

peachy iirc back to back (b2b) fast days are deffo doable, you can have 600 a day instead of 500, but quite hardcore. I like the idea of them and have done them before as it just gets it all DONE!

MazDazzle · 30/01/2018 09:04

I only ever weight lift when I’m with my PT (he keeps track of everything because I’m not interested in numbers - I just do as I’m told!) I did 5 reps of just the shrug bar, then started adding weights, again with reps of 5, building up to the 85 kilos. It felt like it was glued to the ground! It was a very slow rep, but a rep nonetheless.

Well done on your first FD 2kids! How are you feeling this morning?

Wow Fionne, that’s a great weight loss. How much are you hoping to lose? That sucks about your neck injury. Hopefully it’s well on the mend so you can start training for next year!

I’ve going away for a night with my DH next weekend motherofdragons, so I’m trying to be sensible through the week.

Woke up today starving and craving cereal with milk, something I never eat. I managed to resist and stick to water and black coffee though.

Need to stay strong!

slinkyme · 30/01/2018 09:17

Well done on all the SVs and NSVs. Sounds like some lovely times being had from the exercising to the gorgeous meals. The beetroot salad sounds yummy and I always wanted to make shakshouka. Any good recipes?

The weightlifting is seriously impressive. In an alternative life I would be embracing that. Well let's see on this journey maybe one day I will transform and try this.

Have a good day to all those on FDs.

slinkyme · 30/01/2018 09:23

Oh and back to lowest weight so far since starting fasting this time round. In fact I started 4 weeks ago today on the 2nd Feb and have lost 2.7 kg or just under 6 pounds. Am happy with that. Will redo measurements tomorrow to see loss.

slinkyme · 30/01/2018 09:30

I mean 2nd Jan

juicygirly · 30/01/2018 12:13

Hello all! Fell off the wagon for the past two weeks as have had some major upheaval but all is back to normal now hopefully so back on it! Hopefully won't have gained any weight .. will be weighing myself later and will report back 😩

Easing back into a fast day today at 800 calories.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2018 12:13

Well done on your SVs, slinky and blossom

peachy, blossom For b2b (consecutive) FDs, you can have 650 cals instead of 500

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, 2kids

Enjoy the born-again outfits, Fionne from your wardrobe NSV

Congrats on your lifting pb NSV, Maz
Power to your barbell < fist bump >

Duck Have you looked for martial arts classes ?
They are brilliant for fitness and build strength too.
Taebo or Taekwondo are especially great fun.
Boxing (non-contact) is totally exhausting, but burns a zillion calories if you have a good class

Also boost fitness & burn fat with spin if it's an HIIT or HIT class
Spin is easy on the knees, hips etc - a great alternative for those who should avoid running.

OP posts:
snailhunter · 30/01/2018 12:20

I love this thread too fionne. I find it really helpful to know that others are doing the same and seeing results.

congrats on SVs, slinky and blossom!

Maz I am going away with DH next weekend too - we are picking up our much-longed-for new puppy and making a weekend of it! So will have a sensible week followed by guilt-free enjoyment. Followed by new puppy madness...

Only one child is ill today, hooray, and I had a wonderful 45min run in the frosty woods. I saw an actual woodpecker close up! It was just perched on a tree as I ran past - I was so close to it. I find this kind of thing very exciting. :)

purpleviolet1 · 30/01/2018 12:31

Sorry BCF I meant generally how should we hold ourselves ? When going about daily activities

purpleviolet1 · 30/01/2018 12:53

Pilates is tonight but I feel dreadful and not sure I'll manage to go... TOTM and I've got a cold

peachypips · 30/01/2018 13:02

Lots of people having nice weekends away with their other halves. So important I think!

I lift weights too. I love it!

Juicy- I had a bad week too but back in the game today!

Trying something diff today- having a proper FD lunch and dinner instead of saving all my calories for dinner. Had ribbon courgette salad just now- was yum!

Regarding b2b - will it slow weight loss or will it not make any difference?

juicygirly · 30/01/2018 13:11

Good luck peachy ! I just read on another thread that two b2b fasts with 650 calories each day is the best way to lose weight - is this true ?

Finsbury · 30/01/2018 13:15

Fast Day here: 1 egg, 1 miso soup, 2 oatcakes and 1 miniscule cube of cheese. Attempting a run tonight. Will I have enough energy?

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