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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OuchBollocks · 28/01/2018 20:31

Lunchtime cals worked well for me. Best FD I've done in a long while. Kitchen closed, it will be an early night as usual for a FD (and when my darling buggers are up half a dozen times a night Hmm )

MazDazzle · 28/01/2018 21:51

Another successful NFD. Managed to come in under TDEE again.

After only 3 good days in a row (1 FD and 2 NFD) my face and stomach are thinner already! It’s such a relief to wave goodbye to the bloat. I’m still a few pounds up from where I was in the run up to Christmas, but it won’t take long to shift.

purpleviolet1 · 28/01/2018 22:02

Struggling here to get back on the bandwagon as it were...

Lovely reading the inspirational posts though!

Hoping to FD tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2018 22:50

Well done, Maz A good return to the fasting swing

Plan your FD menu in advance purple and keep drinking water

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 29/01/2018 06:58

FD today which I'm looking forward to after a weekend of eating and drinking with a couple of old friends. Completely overdid it so this week will be damage limitation.

Iamblossom · 29/01/2018 07:37

Morning all.

Another one fasting today and I am also quite looking forward to it after the excesses of the weekend.

1 pound off in weigh in from this morning from last Monday's weigh in, and 6 pounds down overall (7 pounds off was a post fd weigh in so a bit artificial). I force myself to have my weigh in on Monday's as I am four days away from my last fast and therefore it's my most realistic weight. Really pleased. I will go into maintenance after about another 4-5 pounds.

Menu today is:

3 eggs, miso soup and two crackers when I need them today

Prawn salad this evening.

Good luck today all fasters!

Iamblossom · 29/01/2018 07:40

FYI i started this 3 weeks ago this is my 4th week of 5:2 (this time round). Just posting that for those that didn't know and need proof it works quickly!!

BlueBelle123 · 29/01/2018 07:41

Weigh day today and I have lost 2.5lbs, very pleased I have now lost all my Xmas weight plus an extra 2lbs!

purpleviolet I know its difficult when for what ever reason you just can't seem to stick to it, just take it a day at a time. For me the fact that the days are beginning to get longer is helping its a reminder spring it on its waySmile

Good luck to all Monday Fasters!

BlueBelle123 · 29/01/2018 07:43

Well done Iamblossom on your loss I take so long to type I missed your post first time round!

snailhunter · 29/01/2018 07:47

Wow, well done to all the successful Sunday fasters and losers! That's so encouraging to read this morning. I have an FD planned but it's going to be a hard one as both kids are off school today for different ailments and I will be stuck in the house all day...

quackingduck222 · 29/01/2018 07:49

Well done on your losses lamb and blue.

Also my weigh in today and I’ve lost 1.8 lbs. I had a small gain last week but since 1st Jan that makes 11lbs off. I’m amazed by that and just 3 lbs from target.

Purple - what are you struggling with is it the FD?

2kidsnopets · 29/01/2018 08:33

Hi all, can I join in please? I'm restarting 5:2 with my first fast today.
Stats
Age 37
Height 5"9
Start weight 83.8kg
Bmi 27
Target weight 73kg (but may decrease that, will see how I feel/look at 73

Today is my first fast - although I've done 5:2 pretty successfully twice before but then had two kids who were both terrible sleepers and have survived on sugar to get me through the last 4 years.

Anyway, breakfast today is black coffee. Late lunch is a little steamed chicken with veggies and then I'll have an apple and some veg sticks later on when kids have tea.

Good luck everyone else on a FD today.

Pumperthepumper · 29/01/2018 08:47

I think I’ve got the flu, feel totally horrendous. Should I stop 5:2 until I feel better? Really pissed off, I’m never I’ll and I was all fired up form fasting. Sorry for typos, tYou in with one finger

2kidsnopets · 29/01/2018 08:52

Pumper I would say eat whatever you feel like eating if you are that ill, your body needs to get better, and just restart when you are over it. Although if you are feeling that bad you might end up with a fast day anyway due to lack of appetite!

2kidsnopets · 29/01/2018 08:56

Oh, and I forgot to ask, does anyone pay any attention to macros in mfp? I have set calories to my tdee (although obv I'll be under that on a FD) but don't know what to do with the macro values.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2018 09:10

pumper or anyone else with a winter bug: Never fast if you have a fever, or a stomach upset

Obviously, don't force yourself to eat, either - sometimes your body isn't ready for solid food
Keep drinking lots of water and try hot drinks & soup if you feel able
Get well soon Thanks

Welcome, 2kids Smile and good luck on your 1st FD
On 5:2 NFDs, no need to consider macros
On FDs, no added sugar, junky food and especially no alcohol

Well done on your SVs, blossom and blue

OP posts:
MightyMunki · 29/01/2018 09:38

Checking in for the first FD of the week.

Boiled egg and black coffee for breakfast, then planning on making a veggie soup for later.

slinkyme · 29/01/2018 10:21

Great losses blue, duck and lamb.

Welcome pets. Would echo pump - do take rest today and hope you feel better soon.

FD today and it might be easier as boiler being replaced and kitchen is out of bounds. Have a large bottle of water for me - what am I going to do without hot drinks? ☕️
Have a good FD today to all the fasters.

CheshireSplat · 29/01/2018 10:34

Well done those with SVs. Like Blossom I weigh on a Monday and could cry.

Was a blow out weekend but I'm 2 lbs heavier than I was when I started 3 weeks ago. AngrySad It's so tempting to just throw in the towel but I won't lose weight if I do that. So I have a carrot and a hard boiled egg for my lunch. Think I need to head over to the inspirational thread to top myself crying!!!!

2kidsnopets · 29/01/2018 11:19

I wish I didn't hate eggs, they seem to be a popular option on FD!

RebeccaWithTheGoodHair · 29/01/2018 11:21

Fast day for me, so far one blood orange and 5 cups of black coffee.

I have found something that really works for me is to have a pitta bread with a minute amount of cheese and a good spoonful of kimchi midday. I like lunch and it gives me plenty of energy for the afternoon.

A pitta bread has 275 calories but kimchi is really low. I'm not sure exactly how many cheese has but I really do only have 3 very thin slivers so can't be using up my remaining 200 cals with it.

I like it so much that I have it every day (but with a packet of crisps on non-fast days!).

Have a good afternoon to all the fasters!

purpleviolet1 · 29/01/2018 12:01

Cheshire, are you MFP-Ing? You are likely overeating on NFD's. Are you drinking enough water?

Struggling here because two weeks ago tomorrow, I had a sickness bug. I was restarting FD's 1 week ago (after a week off) but came down with the cold. Body aches, exhausted etc. Not helped by LO partying for 2 hours during the night for the last 3/4 weeks. Started off as teething and now has become a habit which we are trying to break with the help of a sleep consultant. So anyway TOTM has arrived yesterday and generally just feels like it's one thing after another.

However, my cold is better, just snotty nose left now so FD today it is! Had my weetobix for breakfast and will sip tea/ water all day long until dinner - lentil soup with a very small portion of boiled rice

I always find it hard restarting FD's after a break.

My weight this morning was 9st 7.8lbs so I've put on nearly 2lbs. Some could be water retention though

Butteredparsn1ps · 29/01/2018 13:07

Morning all, and well done on those SV and NSV

My scales are stubbornly staying put, but my waist has decreased by 6cm & my hips by 2 which I am very happy about.

Had a busy, bitty weekend which affected my eating and I definitely didn't drink enough, (suspect this is partly responsible for the lack of scale movement).

I have swapped my FD this week to Mon & Weds so have just made a 170 calorie apology for cauliflower cheese for lunch and am planning to have a jacket potato and salad later on.

Happy Monday everyone.

CheshireSplat · 29/01/2018 13:12

Thanks Purple I'm just whining. It was a weekend with old friends where I ate and drank a week's worth of food! Hopefully, it'll come off in the week.

Iamblossom · 29/01/2018 14:30

Cheshire I am positive a lot of that will be water retention.

Do two good fds this week and I bet you have a whoosh next Monday - where those two plus one or more pounds will be gone.

Imagine what you might have gained if you had eaten and drunk what you did plus not have had a calorie deficit last week?

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