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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
snailhunter · 25/01/2018 20:34

I have no Lidl near me for lovely cheap Skyr. Sad Vanilla and unflavoured ones are much lower in calories than the strawberry ones, btw.

m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 20:40

End of FD and all I can think about is food. I was completely fine until 7pm after I've had dinner. I'm not actually hungry just want to eat but I'm standing firm. This may actually force me to have an early night! (8.40pm is a little too early though).

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 20:42

Well done, parsn1ps for persevering and to all the other Thursday fasters

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 20:43

mother I frequently go to bed at 8pm on a fd. "To read"

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 20:44

m0ther Have a pamper / personal care evening ?
i.e. warm bath with salts & candles, hair-wash, shave / wax, nails, feet etc

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 21:12

Just made banana loaf as bananas were looking iffy but as soon as it's cooked I'm off to bed. Can't really have a pamper night as I've got a pamper weekend at a spa with dh tomorrow until Sunday completely child free!

MightyMunki · 25/01/2018 21:16

blossom that seems a bit much for soup. I’m finding that if i add in my own recipes (add each individual ingredient then input the number of servings yourself), I get much more accurate calorie tracking. A bit of a faff but once it’s saved it’s handy, especially for meals you make often. Kitchen closed at around 450cals for me today. Managed on some ryvita crackers and coffee at lunch, and a chicken veggie stew with bulgar wheat for dinner.

m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 21:18

Ending the day at 543. Much harder than the last 2 but still doable. Need to make good choices this weekend!

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 21:27

Well done everyone!!

mighty I agree. Difficult as I didn't make it, DH did but have mfped it at 400.

slinkyme · 25/01/2018 21:40

Well done to all the Thursday fasters.

Evening took an unexpected turn. After coming back from work DD had a meltdown Re some issue at School. Spent the entire evening helping her and calming her and still just trying to get kids ready for bed. Managed to make dinner at that time for them - burgers and homemade wedges. And I didn't take a bite. Have been so tired and stressed out just waiting for kids to be in bed then I will go down and finally eat. So far today on FD had a small bowl of soup and a couple of tea/coffee. So am about 150 cals.

If I don't think about it I could just go to bed without food as not hungry anymore.

But if I think about it then it triggers that I am
Supposed to eat.

Waiting for DH to get back from work - a late night for him too and he is also on a FD. I am sure we will just have something and call it a night.

Altogether a challenging day and glad to see the back of it. Jeans feeling looser around the thighs this evening though so small mercies I guess.

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 21:45

slinky tough day.

From experience I would deffo get to your 500.

Have a sandwich?

TalkinPeace · 25/01/2018 22:23

slinky
Have a BIG glass of warm milk before you turn in tonight
as then you'll not be dehydrated
but the fats in the milk will help you sleep

Tomorrow is another day

DrWhy · 25/01/2018 22:27

So I had an accidental FD today, I was working in a different office and faffing about with my access pass used my breakfast time as well as making me late for my first meeting. I then went for a run at lunch as the sun was out. Had what looked like a healthish option off the airport menu on the way home and I think that made it about 550 cals.

PostNotInHaste · 26/01/2018 07:02

Slinky hope your DD feels better this morning, horrible when they’re so upset.

800 FD yesterday. STS today but not worried as AF was due yesterday though not turned up.

slinkyme · 26/01/2018 07:40

Things better this am. Finished FD on just under 500 - had a small baked beans on toast and a cup of tea. Everybody slept like a baby. Thank god it is a Friday today. Have s god day for any Friday fasters.

slinkyme · 26/01/2018 07:41

Have a good day even

quackingduck222 · 26/01/2018 08:28

Well done everyone who did a FD yesterday.

I did a mini fast and it went well and the scales are on the move again from last weeks slight gain.

Yesterday is a date that is bunt into my brain as it’s the original date I decided to loose weight 8 years ago. I remember stepping on those scales at my doctors and walking Home crying as I couldn’t believe what I weighed. 8 years later and just 2.8lbs away from a 6 stone loss from that weight.

OuchBollocks · 26/01/2018 08:54

That's amazing quacking

southeastlondonmum · 26/01/2018 09:07

Well done for all those with losses. I'm slightly dreading weigh in tomorrow as it was a NFD yesterday and my daughter's birthday so we went out for wine, pizza and ice cream! Still I have eaten well within TDEE for rest of week.
FD today

slinkyme · 26/01/2018 09:15

Very inspirational duck. Thanks

Iamblossom · 26/01/2018 09:17

quacking that is inspirational. Well done.

quackingduck222 · 26/01/2018 09:28

Thanks everyone. Ps it’s not all been achieved on 5:2 but 5:2 has pushed the limits and have got down a stone lower than any other diet (I’ve pretty much yoyo dieted in those 8 years)

South your weigh in will be fine, 1 day / night out doesn’t usually cause the whole week to go to pot. And doing a FD straight after usually you find if you have gained it comes straight back off on the FD. Good luck for tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2018 09:44

You did well to stay focused with all the stress yesterday, slinky Now hopefully everyone is chilled

Great achievement, duck and Happy Anniversary
On 5:2 you have learned to eat what your body needs and you will have a proper maintenance plan
No more yoyo !

Don't worry about the weigh-in, southeast
On this WOE, we definitely feast on special occasions - that's important
Just make today sensible within TDEE
Even if you see a blip, it will only be temporary and will be gone next time.

Well done on the unplanned FD, drwhy They are the best kind Wink
I find it an advantage of 5:2 that if food choices are poor / unavailable then I can turn that to good use, instead of being a problem as it would have been before
Also on a very busy day, I can find extra time by fasting

Today's an example of an unplanned FD for me - an unexpected appointment means no time for lunch:
Just before midnight, I was notified of a flat which is both a few minutes walk from the Rhine river AND only 650 metres from my gym < excited >
And I woke up not feeling hungry
So, I plan to fast until a supper of grilled salmon & a huge salad

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2018 09:48

Oh I see you're fasting today too, southeast Good luck to us both and any other Friday fasters

That's right, postnot totm is likely causing water retention even before it starts

OP posts:
Fionne · 26/01/2018 10:05

Duck, what a fabulous achievement. Well done you!!!

Quack Quack Hooray 😂

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