Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 12:41

quacking yes - I am in the same situation.

Feelitstill · 25/01/2018 12:50

Hello all. Thanks for lovely welcome.
Yes, first FD today and already struggling Grin. I’ll probably lurk more than I post but just reading will spur me on
Thank you.

slinkyme · 25/01/2018 13:22

Thanks for all the advice re my little problem. Will try a few.

Welcome feelit.

For what's it worth nobody has said to me stop losing weight - I'm quite far from that. Smile

GrannyPenny · 25/01/2018 14:20

Blossom - I have the same problem - its like, why, if it doesn't impact on them, do they feel the need to comment/control what you do and don't eat? My OH sometimes gets a short "I'm doing my own meal tonight" and he knows I'll bin something rather than eat it - although it doesn't stop him coming home with discounted cakes and pastries and eating them in front of me. I don't discuss my weight with him now, but have DD as an ally and we can commiserate with each other about our OH's when we're out running together. And I have you lot as well for support!

Good luck with your first FD Feelit - plenty of Thursday fasters to keep you company.

Blue - hope you're feeling okay.

MightyMunki · 25/01/2018 14:43

Well done to everyone who has lost, and thanks for the wise words Granny. Although I was a bit disappointed this morning I’m not totally disheartened. I actually feel so much better/lighter.

BlueBelle123 · 25/01/2018 16:06

Thank you all for your kind words and support, I took your advice went to bed and had something to eat, but it wouldn't stay down.......so fast continues whether I like it or not. Unfortunately, this is how migraines effect me.

BCF I struggled before doing 5:2 but I have no problem with 16:8 would that still give me the same health benefits or do you only really get them with 5:2, and thanks again for all the wonderful advice.

m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 16:08

Dh is really supportive but we don't talk about it. I fast on days we aren't eating dinner with dc so they don't see. Dd1 is underweight and very controlled re her eating so i don't want her to be aware as I don't think she'd take away the right message. Dd2&3 are 6 and oblivious 🤣

slinkyme · 25/01/2018 17:38

Got through that difficult meeting. Being stressed all day and preparing for the meeting meant that I didn't feel hungry. Ofcourse I would kill for a glass of wine now but there's always tomorrow. Just trying to work out what I will eat tonight and another FD our if the way. Have one of those ikea step stools and will use those in the bathroom😊. I'm intrigued to see if this works.

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 18:07

Paying for my snacking as my cal count as a result will be really high even for a nfd. Only had an apple and a packet of squares outside of my meals but it soon adds up.

The very healthy bowl of homemade parsnip soup with nothing but onion stock and parsnips in I had for lunch MFP had at 550 cals, can that possibly be true???

purpleviolet1 · 25/01/2018 18:15

NFD done, may have gone over cals not sure but I'm struggling to not just stuff my face with chocolates. So I'll consider it a NSV that I havent. Unlike me but checked my app and yes , TOTM due in 4 days. Feeling so tired as well.

Oh NSV to report yesterday had friends over and they commented I had lost weight Grin

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 18:30

Yay purple. So nice when people notice.

purpleviolet1 · 25/01/2018 18:40

Thanks blossom, it is.

Feeling all bloated and craving carbs though with TOTM approaching Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 18:44

Bluebelle Many 5:2ers do 16:8 as well, on NFDs, to maximise fasting benefits and also help bring NFDs to within TDEE.

Health benefits
On its own, 16:8 - which is daily fasting - should give some similar health benefits to 5:2, wrt cell repair, provided:

  • you have 2 days alcohol and junk-free (like you would on 5:2)
  • you do 16:8 every day of the week, not just a few days
  • the 16 fasting hours are free of ALL calories, including drinks, i.e. basically just have water and zero-cal hot drinks.

However, the scientific research wrt health has mainly been on 5:2 or ADF (FDs every other day) so some conditions like asthma, IBS and some skin ailments may need the longer fasting periods of FDs
The much tougher ADF system has been shown to significantly help asthma, so asthma sufferers might find 16:8 not enough.

Conditions like preT2/T2, possibly PCOS also, would usually only be significantly helped by losing fat around the internal organs (ref. Prof Taylor of Newcastle Uni and his prize-winning Twin Cycles Hypothesis for T2)
So 16:8 might not help these much if, in the 8-hour eating window, you are eating / drinking the same amount as in your "normal" WOE before 5:2

Losing Fat

16:8 alone won't lose weight, unless you have a similar weekly calorie deficit to 5:2
so you need to have a weekly deficit equal to your 2 FDs

e.g. if your TDEE is 2000, you would have a 3000 weekly deficit on 5:2 (if your NFDs are about TDEE)
So on 16:8, you would need to average 2000-(3000/7) which is about 1570 cals daily

It is best to do this by cutting out a meal each day, either breakfast or supper, so you just eat twice daily - to maximise fasting benefits -
rather than cramming 3 smaller meals into 8 hours

OP posts:
snailhunter · 25/01/2018 18:50

Kitchen closed at 422 cals, hooray. Had lovely stir- fry for dinner - tons of veg plus ginger, garlic and soy sauce. And vanilla Skyr for dessert which is my fast day treat as low in cals and high protein. Discovered it when I went to Iceland and it’s gorgeous.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 18:51

Well done on your compliments NSV, purple
Remember that when you are resisting the totm munchies.
Focus on your goals

If you stay on track, then the 1st FD after totm should release the retained water / totm bloat
So later weigh-in should show that

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 18:57

I like Skyr and similar high protein yoghurts too, snail because they are so solid and the spoon stands up Wink
except I eat only the unflavoured kind
Its only 63 cals / 100 g, but 11g protein

I have a 125g pot as a quick NFD breakfast, mixed in with 1 tbsp chia seeds, a few berries, 1 teasp cinnamon, 1 teasp pure vanilla powder
With some veg juice alongside

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 19:10

snail well done!!

I must find these yoghurts...

snailhunter · 25/01/2018 19:14

BigChoc yes, the unflavoured ones are lovely too. I get mine from Waitrose, lamblossom, cos I is right posh like that. Grin

m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 19:16

Lidl so skyr yoghurts 😁

purpleviolet1 · 25/01/2018 19:18

BCF is that the first FD after TOTM commences or after it ends?

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 19:21

Ooh might have to bob into Lidl tomorrow.

I ain't posh enough for Waitrose innit Grin

Butteredparsn1ps · 25/01/2018 20:14

Got through today's FD ok but very tired now. Have been helping DS to move house which has been a mixed blessing. Too busy to obsess about lack of food, but I've struggled for energy.

Had a chicken salad for lunch and a jacket potato + a portobello mushroom "steak" and more salad for tea. Came in at around 450 so had a small ginger biscuit too!!

Looking forward to food (and wine) tomorrow Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 20:31

purple Usually, the 1st FD after it ends
If you retain a lot of water, it may even be after FD2
ntbo, the retained water is that totm bloat, so when that's gone, the scales normally go down

However, if you succumb to the carby munchies, you may sts or even have a blip gain, because excess carbs retain water too, about 4g water for every extra 1g carb.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 20:32

No Waitrose in Germany, just Lidl and Alsi.
I'm clearly in the land of the plebs, where I belong Wink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 20:33

Aldi

OP posts: