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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fionne · 25/01/2018 09:42

Definitely not enough water. Am going to really increase it and see how it goes. I am definitely eating lots of vegetables on FDs as tend to eat predominantly that, no carbs and minimal protein. Scales bouncing up and down with all this retained food.

Slinky, how you sit on the loo can also hinder things so if you can get a little foot rest so your knees are bent whilst sitting it will help nature take its course. You can also blast the loo seat with a hairdryer as that is said to help along with holding a hot water bottle to your tummy when on the loo. I had women's surgery once and I was terrified to go to the loo and this is what I was advised. Oh and I was also told to place a sanitary pad against my perineum when on the loo as it helped the right of passage to to speak by applying pressure from the outside.

BCF - thank you for the information re the insulin spike. I was so hungry I wanted to cry.

Pumperthepumper · 25/01/2018 09:42

Thanks quacking - yes, I like that it’s so simple and straightforward. And on FD I like being able to think ‘I’ll have that tomorrow’ rather than ‘gaaah I’ll never be able to have pancakes EVER AGAIN’ - it’s easier to stick to when you know you can just have it in about 12 hours.

Portion sizes are a real eye opener though, and I thought I was pretty clued up on that. 88g of pearl barley (I made soup) is genuinely about a tenth of what I would normally have used. But it was plenty in the end, I didn’t feel hungry at all afterwards.

So feeling really positive just now. I so hope I stick to it - I’ve been unhappy with my body for so long, and I’ve tried so many times to lose weight. Would love to put it benind me.

Fionne · 25/01/2018 09:43

Im another one fasting today and its ok up to now as Im keeping myself really busy.

Well done to everyone for the SV and getting through another day.

CheshireSplat · 25/01/2018 09:49

Good luck to all fasters today. I smashed my FD yesterday so feeling very —hungry— smug today.

I was constipated at the start of 5:2, but lots of water and running really helps me. Also, putting my feet on DD’s step helps the u-bend in my plumbing.

Some very inspiring stories on here today.

MightyMunki · 25/01/2018 10:02

Second FD of the week. Was expecting a scale victory but apparently not, up by .4kg . I’m sure I’ve been well under TDEE on the NFD’s... I’ll monitor on MFP this week and see where I’m going wrong.

BlueBelle123 · 25/01/2018 10:22

FD not going at all well, woke up with a headache had bovril and drunk loads but have thrown it all up, I'm not ill as such but headaches do this to me, should I abandon or try and persevere, at work doesn't help!!!?

MightyMunki · 25/01/2018 10:36

I had the same at work, eventually it passed but I felt crap most of the day, if you don’t want to give up the FD just yet, is there anywhere you can get something light to eat? Most supermarkets do those little pots of boiled eggs. Have something small and see if it helps.

GrannyPenny · 25/01/2018 10:39

Bug - hurrah for the whoosh! Been so long since my scales saw the 10s I'd forgotten about that decimal point victory!

That's a great start Pumper. Portion sizes was one of the biggest eye openers for me too when I first started.

Slinky - you're also eating less, so less to go through. I'm pretty regular, but sometimes not after a FD.

It's a welcome sunny day here today. So my goals. No snacking. Go for a run. No snacking.

Have a good day everyone.

snailhunter · 25/01/2018 10:40

BlueBelle123 I would absolutely not fast today if I were you - the advice is not to fast if you are at all unwell. I have migraines and there is no way I would fast if I had one - I just feel absolutely awful.

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 10:55

wow big SVs today, hug that is amazing, how many times did you get on and off the scales to check the numbers? Smile I weigh three times to make sure...

NFD here and I am snacking. [ducks] Am planning to keep to between 1500-1600 today though, but it's so nice to EAT!!

Been for a 5km run.

Good luck all fasters today - glad i'm not Grin HTH....

GrannyPenny · 25/01/2018 11:04

BlueBelle - i'd definitely postpone it. Drink little and often to rehydrate. At worst, eat within TDEE - at best, eat with a small deficit. Hope you feel better soon.

Mighty the scales are a number and don't always reflect the subtle NSV changes going on behind the scenes. Good idea to check MFP though - I still do it religiously every day although often to make better food choices on TDEE days.

quackingduck222 · 25/01/2018 11:07

I’m manic with work today. I work from home but got loads of orders to crack on with so going for a mini fast day.

Tomorrow is all you can eat restaurant day. That’s my reward for completing my run and loosing just over 10lbs this month. Usually opt for meat & fish dishes but will be having dessert then FD Saturday.

In a better mindset now and will not let tomorrow undo my efforts as I’m 3.4 lbs from target now.

quackingduck222 · 25/01/2018 11:08

Blue - I’d also look after yourself today and try again another day. I suffer bad headaches and it kills me on a FD. I find drinking lots taking some tablets and having something to eat really helps

Feelitstill · 25/01/2018 11:09

Can I join you please?

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 11:15

blue I agree with others. Wait till you can focus properly and feel better.

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 11:16

I have hit the same challenge with 5:2 as I did last time. DH sees my evening FD meal and asks me why I am doing it and gets a bit cross. "you don't need to lose weight" etc. Does anyone else have this?

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 11:17

welcome feelit Smile step on in...

snailhunter · 25/01/2018 12:12

lamblossom I said to my DH:

  1. I am doing intermittent fasting two days a week as I am not happy at my current weight. That's me who isn't happy, not you, or anyone else: my weight is my business.
  2. I will not talk about fasting, wander around looking enviously at your food, moan about being hungry, or lecture you about doing it. In short, you will not notice I am doing it and it will not affect you in any way.
  3. In return for me not talking about it, kindly do not mention it to me in any way shape or form, as it is none of your business.

This has worked very well so far. My plan for him telling me I don't need to lose any more weight is to tell him forcibly to butt out, because my weight is my business. Might that work with your DH? :)

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 12:16

Brilliant SV, bug Thanks
So many milestones for you
Welcome to the 9 stone somethings

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 12:20

bluebelle Don't fast when you feel sick - you may also be coming down with a big
Try another day - maybe have a small protein breakfast like boiled egg and ease in with 800 cals

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 12:20

coming down with a bug

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 12:23

Welcome, feelit Smile
Is this your first FD today ?
Anyway, post whenever you need support

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 25/01/2018 12:23

Congratulations HLBug and pumper! Grin

quackingduck222 · 25/01/2018 12:39

Lamb - to a degree my DH does. Recently I’ve been turning down treats and he’s like you don’t need to loose weight. I’ve said that’s his opinion.

He’s right I don’t need to loose any more but I have made it clear I want to. (Talking a few lbs) I’ve just explained its my target and I want to get there and he seems to understand that now.

I do not discuss fasting with anyone else as I’ve been having the don’t loose anymore weight talk for a year now. I hate it and have lost my rag a few times and told people to mind their own business. It’s so annoying!

Love snails approach actually that’s very good. As you say it doesn’t effect our other half’s.

I need to have another talk with mine soon as I know as soon as I get to target the takeaways / treats will be force fed to me. And if that happens Il be back to square one all over again like in the past..

Iamblossom · 25/01/2018 12:39

snail it's a good position, if he makes any more comments I will tell him that my happy weight is what I feel it to be not his.

Thanks. Flowers

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