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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Pumperthepumper · 24/01/2018 20:11

Ive just finished my second ever FD on 560 calories. Was weirdly easier today, I think because I was out of the house most of the day. Feeling really positive about 5:2 just now, I so hope I stick to it.

purpleviolet1 · 24/01/2018 20:50

Oh BCF Sad I was allocating around 300 cals for it and considering making today a mini FD.

Having an NFD tomorrow but will FD on Friday and Sunday hopefully.

purpleviolet1 · 24/01/2018 20:50

On a positive note I've just been to Pilates!

HLBug · 24/01/2018 21:09

Congratulations pumper - keeping busy on a FD really does make a huge difference. Enjoy your NFD tomorrow Smile

Pumperthepumper · 24/01/2018 21:17

Thanks HLBug 👍👍

HandMini · 24/01/2018 21:30

Hurray hurray - second FD of the week finished within 500 calories. Loads of fruit tea and water in the day; tuna steak with salad for tea. So looking forward to porridge tomorrow morning!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 22:01

Well done on a good FD, pumper Sounds like you're getting used to fasting now.

That sounds a really healthy FD menu, handmini

duck This variation in macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat) is why I posted before that even mfp won't be exact: a 500 cal FD may in reality be 450-550
but it doesn't matter - it evens out over time - don't worry about this level of detail

Different varieties of veg or fruit may have different carb or sugar content, hence different calories
e.g. Different apples have different degrees of sweetness and hence sugar content

Veg & fruit macronutrients also vary according to degree of ripeness, or their age
California avocados, like Hass, have about 50% more fat than the same weight of Florida avocado; hence higher cals

There may be different amounts of fat for different brands of any meat, cheese etc

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 24/01/2018 22:46

Successful day - not gone down with vomiting bug and good FD finishing a smidge over 500 cals. Bonus - submitted my tax return online and don't owe anything.

Interesting about the avocados BigChoc - I probably eat at least 4 per week. Just checked and I do have the Haas ones in my MFP list so I'm not underestimating calories. Not too keen on the Florida ones, I find them a bit watery, and now I know why!

slinkyme · 25/01/2018 06:19

Yesterday was the fast that should have been according to my ADF. However visiting family and lunch and dinner plans so skipped and will try to do a FD today. Have a gruelling meeting this afternoon that I am really not looking forward to so wondering whether to move FD to tomorrow. Will see how day goes. In any case this week will be a 4:3. Sorry for TMI but is anybody else having problems with constipation. Have really been and have been eating prunes on NFD but nothing helping.

HandMini · 25/01/2018 06:35

Morning all

Today’s goals: 2l water, no snacking, cooking a veg curry for supper.

Good luck FDers Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 06:46

Goor morning, Thursday fasters

slinky You may be eating more veg than normal, thus higher fibre, which needs more water
Are you drinking enough water, FDs and NFDs ?
Water, not fizz
Aim for 1.5-2l each day

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 06:47

I see you are doing ADF - that is tougher on the system, so your digestion may be struggling to adapt

OP posts:
slinkyme · 25/01/2018 06:51

Definitely not enough water. Am going to really increase it and see how it goes. I am definitely eating lots of vegetables on FDs as tend to eat predominantly that, no carbs and minimal protein. Scales bouncing up and down with all this retained food.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2018 07:01

Yup, lack of water can really hinder progress and cause all sorts of problems.
It's essential for life
Make it a lifetime habit: start each day with a glass of water and keep drinking

It helps avoid kidney stones, which many folk in offices seem to get, due to living off fizz and insufficient water

Also, exercise is important to keep you regular
(another reason why exercise is important for good health, even if it sometimes doesn't help weight much)

A few sets of bodyweight squats - keep your back straight, weight on heels, stick bum rearwards
and a brisk daily walk

OP posts:
BlueBelle123 · 25/01/2018 07:20

FD here me as well, not a great start woke up with a headache so I have already had a cup of bovril - is that ok?

At work today so hopefully I can keep busy and forget about foodHmm

Good luck to all fellow fasters!

PostNotInHaste · 25/01/2018 07:45

Thursday faster checking in. Monday FD ended at 700 cal. AF due today so decided will be going for 800 cal. Have been tracking all week and that puts me on track for a 1lb loss, though it may well not appear this week.

Good luck to all Thursday fasters.

Motheroffourdragons · 25/01/2018 08:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Butteredparsn1ps · 25/01/2018 08:12

FD here and a busy day planned. Hoping that I will be distracted from hunger!!!

Good luck fellow FDers

snailhunter · 25/01/2018 08:45

Thursday FD for me. It feels like it will be a tough one. I'm on the third day of TOTM and I get lots of mood crashes around this time - fine one minute, weepy the next. But it's a beautiful day and I have a ton of work to do. So will put head down and hopefully fit in a nice walk later. Good luck all!

HLBug · 25/01/2018 08:57

Scale Victory Klaxon

I've had a whoosh Smile Last week I weighed in at 10st 1lb after STS and TOTM etc etc. Today....9st 11lb Woohoo!

Exciting for many reasons:
a) First time I can remember seeing a 9 in my adult life
b) That takes me to over 3 stone loss since starting this WOL (new recruits - it really does work - 43 pounds in 29 weeks for me)
c) I've learned something new about my scales - since I've lost a digit at the start of the reading, it's added a digit at the end - so I now get a decimal point too. This excited me far too much this morning.

Pumperthepumper · 25/01/2018 09:00

Weighed myself this morning and I’ve lost 3.5lbs in a week! Excellent stuff. Definitely sold on 5:2 Star

Pumperthepumper · 25/01/2018 09:02

Brilliant HLBug! That’s amazing!

Flowers for you and if it’s not a FD then also CakeWine

quackingduck222 · 25/01/2018 09:09

Well done Bug that is amazing!

Pumper that’s a fantastic first week loss. How are you finding 5:2 are you enjoying it?

slinkyme · 25/01/2018 09:09

Thanks BCF. Wonderful Bug very inspirational. Some great losses here. Just the thing to keep motivated for FD.

m0therofdragons · 25/01/2018 09:23

Great losses and great motivation for my FD. Well done everyone!

Decided to do a FD today as I'm working until 3pm then school pick up, parents evening, swimming then home. Not sure when I'll fit food in so seemed an ideal day. I'm counting a week as Monday to Sunday so this will be 2nd FD this week.