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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Iamblossom · 24/01/2018 12:27

I'm fasting today.

Had a shit load of work just dumped on me, "house trained" puppy pooed in the playroom this morning as hates going out in the rain, DS2 forgot his lunch and someone has hacked my PayPal account.

I am hanging in there....AngryAngryAngrybut am hangry.....

Iamblossom · 24/01/2018 12:30

And EVERYONE on the office around me is eating delicious looking crisps and sandwiches.

Finsbury · 24/01/2018 12:39

Thank you BigChoc. I suppose I would like to lose a stone and a half. My TDEE is 1600. I'm sure I eat a lot more than that in a day at the moment which is why I thought I'd need to calorie count for every day.

Butteredparsn1ps · 24/01/2018 13:07

Hoping you escape the bug GrannyP I've just come back from a wetter than planned run, looking like the proverbial drowned rat.

NFD here and celebrating tonight so watching the lunchtime calories and NO SNACKS

CheshireSplat · 24/01/2018 13:13

Oh Blossom that sounds tough. Hang in though and you'll be slimmer though still cross!

Fionne you did amazingly well not to cave in. Well done.

peachy I think we're similar age and height but you're lighter than me? (If I've remembered correctly that you're my Devon twin. Apologies if that's someone else!) I'm 5'3", 11 stone 3 and aged 40. My TDEE is just over 1600.

Bestbees · 24/01/2018 13:33

Hi all. Just checking in as cant keep up with the thread. Fasting going well here as sticking to lowish refined carbs is helping too. I am sticking with mon and wed fd, sticking to around 1500 on week day nfd and keeping it more relaxed at weekends. Ate a big roast on sunday and felt so stuffed so keeping that in mind when considering portion sizes.

Seems like people are doing really well. I have not been weighing muh as trying to focus on habit rather than results but seems like i will finish january at arou d 9.12 which is great. 9.8ish is my target.

Good luck to anyobe fasting with me today!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 13:34

Finsbury "NO snacking" and NHS alcohol guidelines are enough to do the trick on NFDs for some folk
Why not try without calorie counting and see how you go.

Blossom I have a punchbag in the cellar, for days when the whole damn Universe is against me

Imagiine the poo crumbs and snot smears on communal food - not so tempting now ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 13:34

Finsbury "NO snacking" and NHS alcohol guidelines are enough to do the trick on NFDs for some folk
Why not try without calorie counting and see how you go.

Blossom I have a punchbag in the cellar, for days when the whole damn Universe is against me

Imagiine the poo crumbs and snot smears on communal food - not so tempting now ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 13:36

Hmm Oh well, the reminder of poo crumbs and snot smears on communal food deserved repeating

OP posts:
peachypips · 24/01/2018 15:26

I'm 39, 5'3" and 12 stone. TDEE 1,900. Exercise almost every day but only put 'light' down.

GrannyPenny · 24/01/2018 16:12

Thanks Parsn1ps - me too. Well done on your wet weather run - it poured down here at about 1.00 p.m. for 20 mins or so and is still miserable although the wind has died down. I should be running today but have decided to postpone and take a rest day.

Blossom - today can only get better. I keep telling myself that.

cajo · 24/01/2018 16:16

NFD for me today, and was pleased to find I've had a really successful couple of days - total for month to date is 7lb down which I'm pleased about! Just left an unopened box of green and blacks at a friend's house to avoid temptation (polishes halo). Am thinking about it wistfully though...!

Finsbury · 24/01/2018 16:16

How often does everyone weigh themselves?

purpleviolet1 · 24/01/2018 17:13

I weigh everyday as it helps me to
Keep healthy eating at the forefront of my mind. I take any increases lightly as I know that it doesn't mean anything - it's more the downward trend that I can monitor.

I know lots prefer to weigh the morning after 2nd FD of the week , after loo and before any food, naked preferably as advised by BCF. Some Prefer not to weigh at all for weeks on end.

Mucked up my Fd by having a piece of home made cake at my friends house. How many calories do we reckon it is? Was vanilla sponge with icing I think

CheshireSplat · 24/01/2018 17:44

peachy that TDEE sounds right then. More than mine because you do more exercise, are heavier and have a year on me! Curse that big 4-0!!!

m0therofdragons · 24/01/2018 18:46

I'm 11st 4lbs and 5'4". 35 years old. I lost all my baby weight so this is just cake, wine and cheese 😆

I weigh daily, sometimes morning and night. It keeps me focused but I pick a day to have as my official weight day too and that's what I log on mfp.

Just finished Zumba and yoga (30 minutes of each). It's been a 6 week thing at work but I've realised Zumba isn't for me and I prefer Pilates to yoga. Glad I tried it though!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 18:50

That’s probably scuppered your FD, purple
Don't worry - Try tomorrow ?
Cake is a calorie bomb, packed with sugar that goes straight to your waist.
Most folk seriously underestimate both calories and sugar grams in their slice of cake.

Cake studies

https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/slice-cake-pictured-box-762-calories-not-247.htm

A study took 2 different groups, students and catering professionals,
asked them to take a slice of cake, prepared from a packet, then noted the calories:

Group 1:
Got the box with the frosted cake picture and no "warning" about the frosting being extra,
chose a slice that contained 1,083 calories.

Group 2
Got the box and the warning about frosting
picked a slice with 600 calories.

Group 3
Got the box plus an unfrosted cake,
picked a slice with 595 calories.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 18:52

Sorry, that wasn't clear: each of the 2 groups - students and catering pros - was divided into 3 sub-groups

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 18:53

Great progress, cajo Well done on your SV

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 19:02

Weigh Consistently, whatever frequency you prefer

  • If you weigh daily, don't take the number seriously. Weight can naturally varies a couple of lb from day to day: undigested food, water swings etc.

I suggest recording the weekly reading, after FD2 and even then, look at the trend over 2-3 weeks
Or even weigh every 2 or 4 weeks.

If you get upset by blips or sts, then try this method:
. Reliable scales, referably digital.
. Change batteries frequently, so always full power.
. Scales should be on a level hard surface, not carpet.
. Keep scales in exactly the same place every day. Type of flooring, slight slopes etc all affect things.
. First thing in the morning, naked, after loo but before first drink of water.
. After switching on, wait 3 secs before stepping on, because the scales need to calibrate.
. Don't jump on; step slowly on so that both feet are fully on
. Don't lean to one side or to the front /back.
. Keep still until you take the reading, no fidgeting or leaning

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 24/01/2018 19:33

Also:

Blow nose
Pluck eyebrows
Squeeze pimples

I ain't even joking

Iamblossom · 24/01/2018 19:37

Kitchen closed, door shut, bolted, deadlocked and safety chained, at 543.

Uphill battle today. After a rough morning traffic home was dire. Have obsessed about food all day.

I didn't eat enough yesterday on a nfd I think. I have lowered my tdee to 1500 and I just don't think it's enough. Made today difficult.

HLBug · 24/01/2018 19:51

Kitchen closed on 522 kcals. Lovely day and I'd recommend The Post if you get the chance to go to the cinema anytime soon - kept me on the edge of my seat (and not thinking about food) for a good two hours this afternoon!

quackingduck222 · 24/01/2018 19:54

Wow this thread has moved quick today.

Well done to today’s FDers. And hello to the new starters and good luck and you’ve picked a awesome way of life!

Re: weighing - I personally weigh every day, don’t take it too serious as you see the fluctuations but I only record it once a week. I’ve adopted this way as if I’m not weighing, I’m pigging out and in denial. Grin

Found something strange today re calorie counting. I’ve never really ever calorie counted until I started 5:2 but only on FD or randomly just for curiosity really. I am pretty clueless to it. Since new year I’ve been weighing and calculating everything to try and get a clearer picture of it all before maintenance.

Calories seem to differ from shop to shop. Tonight I had 500g mixed frozen peppers from Tesco on MFP I had it down as asda and thought I’d just scan the new bag in. 55cals more for the same amount I use but usually from Asda. Looked on MFP why the difference and they are double the carbs. How is that possible? Peppers are peppers. Same thing happened with my pork actually slightly less grams than I have from as but more calories. I still can’t understand that.

Iamblossom · 24/01/2018 19:57

I weight the morning of a fd and the mornig after.

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