Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 21:56

Well done on nailing a tough FD, southeast

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 21:58

Thanks BigChoc. Will see how I get on.

Justanothernap · 23/01/2018 22:03

Hello new joiners bluebelle & christmas

lamb fantastic sv! Well done.

drwhy your dh sounds like a keeper!

quacking can't believe you managed FD & chocolate shops combined!

I'm mainly just popping in to say after much hard work training focusing on the couch part of the couch to 5k.... I have actually done the first run today. Yay me. Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 23/01/2018 22:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DrWhy · 23/01/2018 22:51

m0theroffour your FD don’t need to be the same day each week so you can fit them around your plans. My default is Tuesday and Friday but there’s free breakfast in work this Friday so I might try it Thursday instead, although I’m travelling then and have a hotel breakfast option...
Thanks Just he drives me potty sometimes but he’s generally fab and has seriously stepped up in the last week or so.
I have survived a FD but came in closer to 600 cals as I had a soup for lunch then a smallish portion of yesterday’s fish pie with lots of kale and broccoli - the fish pie has lots of cheese and potato and kale is much higher calorie when I MFPd it than I expected! On the other hand I stood next to an open large bar of galaxy that other people were helping themselves to for half an hour today during a work event and didn’t have any! I kept thinking about insulin spikes! Thanks BCF Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 23:23

Well done DrWhy on avoiding the Galaxy bar that probably had poo crumbs & snot flakes

Motherof4d Burger without a bun should be fine, if you just had carrot soup for your other meal.

  • Plan FDs to avoid eating out, at least at places where you're not sure if you can eat anything on the menu
  • If you start an FD, then get an invitation you want to accept, just move the FD to the next day, or if it doesn't fit in, then skip that FD
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 23:26

Unless you have a really frantic social life, it should be possible to find 2 days per week suitable for FDs

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 24/01/2018 07:40

FD here for me today.

Have 2 delicious eggs from the farm where Dad's schoolfriend lives for my lunch which I hardboiled last night. Will grab some celery or carrots too. Yum! Still full from last night's tea so feeling very positive about today.

Anyone else FDing today?

quackingduck222 · 24/01/2018 07:52

Well done South & Blue of your FDs.

That’s fantastic news about your first run just. Especially in this vile weather.

Mother of four - agree with the others. I try and pre set my FD at the beginning of the week but if plans change just change the FD day if you can.

Good luck on your FD today Cheshire

Motheroffourdragons · 24/01/2018 07:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Fionne · 24/01/2018 08:58

Hi there, Smile

I was away yesterday having another injection and it was a very topsy turvy food day even though I came in 80 calories under by bed time. In fact all I thought about the whole day was food and it reminded of how I was just a few weeks ago.

I had to be at the airport very early so I decided to have a light breakfast in the lounge so I could take my medicine. I had hummus and a little square of feta. I was happy with it because I was looking forward to the nice Greek yoghurt and granola on board from the breakfast they serve. It really is top of the pops. I figured I’d then be able to go through until after my appts to have a very late lunch and I was ok doing that because I like to think of my body burning away all the rubbish I’m carrying around.

Anyway got on board and the stewardess thought I’d said no to breakfast and by the time I realised I wasn’t getting any, there was only 4 of us in the cabin, we were at the top of descent and other trays were being taken away. It’s a 50 minute flight so not much time for a service. It completely put my meal plans into a tailspin.

I’d planned on going to my favourite Japanese rest after my appts but I decided to go beforehand instead. I had black cod and a mushroom and truffle gohen. It’s the first time I’d had rice in weeks and it set me off into a starvation frenzy that I think BCF will be able to explain. No amount of food would have satisfied me after that, not even the stuffed pepper and salad one of my girls had dropped at home for me for my tea. It didn’t touch the sides on the way down and by 1a.m. I was awake and still starving. All because of the blooming rice. I know it was that. Anyway I resisted the temptation all night to go down to the kitchen and by 5 am I fell asleep again.

Never have I been so happy to see scrambled eggs as I was this morning.

Jeepers creepers.

peachypips · 24/01/2018 09:27

Morning everyone and hi new fasters.

NFD yesterday. Had a migraine when I got home from London and necked four pieces of toast which was far from ideal BlushAngryesp ad I am low carb!

Have decided on no FD today so I can have my curry. Sticking to TDEE though!

Happy Wed everyone!

purpleviolet1 · 24/01/2018 09:58

Cheshire I am... first FD after a break so could do with the support...had my breakfast. Need to knock back lots of water until dinner time now. Feel dehydrated as well so that's not good

m0therofdragons · 24/01/2018 10:08

NFD today but still trying to plan better as my usual eating habit is not to eat much all day then from 4pm onwards eat everything in sight and feel like a failure. Instead I'm planning my 3 meals and an evening snack as it is a habit I struggle with so by planning it in I'm hoping I'll stop the binge eating.

Dh was moaning his trousers are all to big - I just say the word diet to him and he loses weight ffs!

snailhunter · 24/01/2018 10:54

NFD today but planning fast day tomorrow. In my first week, astoundingly, I seem to have lost not just 4lb but an inch and a half off my waist. Haven't had a problem sticking to my TDEE which is 1650 - it just means I need to think a bit harder before reaching for the biscuits.

Great to see so many people starting running/thinking about running. I started running four years ago when I was 39. I had never run before, ever. I started with Couch to 5K and did it incredibly slowly, repeating weeks when I felt like it. Since then I have done five half marathons, one full marathon and a 10K.

Very inspirational loss lamb and well done to all the fasters.

HLBug · 24/01/2018 11:02

FD for me today and a body treat day too Smile I'm having my nails done this morning, then a bit of shopping, and then cinema this afternoon before I pick up the kids from Nursery.

peachypips · 24/01/2018 11:19

I can't work out why my TDEE is so much higher than others. I get just under 2000 cals even when I put in lighter exercise than I am!

I love running but if I run too far I have terrible hip probs. I'm hoping that once I've lost weight that will ease. It's frustrating as I can run 10k with ease fitness-wise.

GrannyPenny · 24/01/2018 11:28

Morning all. More SV and NSV to brighten a miserable and very windy day here!

My NSV was at gym class yesterday when I realised one of the rolls of fat on my tummy wasn't anywhere near so prominent.

So, talking about flexible FDs, I'm going to move my Thursday FD to today. Currently 36 hours symptom free from a virulent vomiting bug I've been in contact with and which seems to strike between the 42-46 hour post-contact mark. So, any time from 5 p.m. tonight. Plan is to have a late omelette lunch and focus on keeping myself well hydrated. If I'm okay still at 11 p.m. then I'll have the remaining 150 cals and FD will be done. If I don't escape, then I'm no worse off.

So, goals for today. FD. No snacking. Keep hydrated.

Keep well everyone!

snailhunter · 24/01/2018 11:43

What's your current weight and height peachypips? I'm quite short at 5ft 4 so maybe that's why I have a lower TDEE. Plus I'm 43 - it goes down with age, I think?

Fionne · 24/01/2018 11:55

I can't work out why my TDEE is so much higher than others. I get just under 2000 cals even when I put in lighter exercise than I am!

I’m on 2300

Fionne · 24/01/2018 11:56

Sorry, posted too soon.

The heavier you are the more you are allowed. I also put my activity level one band lower

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 12:08

Well done to Motherof4"s DH for his SV

Great start, snail with the SV and waist NSV

Congrats on your stomach NSV, granny Must have given you a nice boost in the gym

Well done on not caving in last night, Fionne
Sounds like you are preT2/T2 and your body can't handle simple carbs - white rice is notorious for spiking insulin,; so are oasta., bread

So I strongly recommend you cut out simple starchy carbs like white rice, pasta, wheat bread

iirc, you seem able to eat rye / pumpernickel bread in moderation - try to keep to no more than 2 slices per day
Flaxmeal should be fine too
Moderate portions of porridge (50 g raw weight of oats)

You may also be able to eat moderate portions (cooked weight - not raw weight - maximum 100g)
white / sweet potato (not mashed, no marshmallows etc), brown / red rice, bulghur wheat, baked products from almond or coconut flour

OP posts:
Finsbury · 24/01/2018 12:10

Morning all. I'm planning on starting this as currently shaped like a barrel and need to do something about it. It's been a choice between this and low carbing, but think I've decided on this as seems a bit more flexible - I'm apprehensive about calorie counting though - is it a massive faff?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 12:14

Always calc TDEE for one exercise level than you think

To speed up loss, you can use sedentary TDEE for some NFDs, but eat up to TDEE on 1 day per week

A tall young person will likely have a higher TDEE than a shorter / older one, given similar activity levels
Due to biology - higher % muscle, bones. lower % fat, testosterone levels etc

A man will have a higher TDEE than a woman of the same height, age, weight, activity level
This is why men generally lose more easily on any diet
and why women generally put on weight if they eat the same as their male OH

TDEE increases with height & weight
TDEE decreases with age

  • also real TDEE for women can be dramatically lowered by meno changes
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2018 12:24

Welcome, Finsbury Smile
Calorie counting is only necessary on FDs
and then only until you get a rough feel of what 500 cals is (600 if you're a bloke)
Like most experienced fasters & maintainers, I haven't needed to count FDs for years.

Most 5:2ers lose without counting on NFDs, because their "normal eating" is not much above TDEE
Others find their "normal" is far more than their body can burn, i.e. they are eating back the FD deficit
So they need to calorie count, to permanently retrain their eating / drinking to what their body burns

Since you have a fair bit to lose, you need a sustainable WOL.
I suggest:

  • For the first 2 weeks, do FDs and just eat sensibly on NFDs
    but NO snacking between meals
    and aim for NHS alcohol guidelines

  • then review progress
    If you're losing well, continue like this
    If not, mfp for a full week, for a reality check on portion size, treats, calorie bombs etc

OP posts: