Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
quackingduck222 · 23/01/2018 18:01

Peachy how about tandoori chicken? Usually comes with a salad. For curry dish, hmmm is it roghan josh that’s a very much a tomato dish but yummy?

Maybe try MFP as I noticed the other day they do calories for restaurants now.

m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 18:12

Dinner was salmon fillet, broccoli and asparagus tips. Currently on 378 calories. Any suggestions for snacks? Would be fab to have something while watching tv when dc are in bed.

Sorry for confusion over name. I've been on mn for years 😁

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 19:28

quacking kudos for not trying the samples. There's iron self control right there (in awe).

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 19:31

m0ther i do find a huge mug of options hot choc very filling and it feels treatlike?

Nfd here and have had:

Toast with egg and tomatoes

Yog with berries and seeds and rice cakes

Turkey steaks with veg

Gin (measured out)

Fd tomorrow, busy out in Work Office so shouldn't be too bad (crosses fingers)

m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 20:01

@Iamblossom I definitely found today easy to keep as a FD as I don't get a lunch break so really busy at work, take dc to dance then home at 5.20pm for low calorie dinner! Currently having peppermint tea and not craving anything sweet.

NFD my plan is to have 3 meals with no snacking between. Must make a packed lunch so I stay in control!

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 20:09

Agree m0ther - tomorrow will consist of 2 hours in car to bath, Meeting 11-1, walk round Bath town centre, two more hours of meetings, 2 more hours in car, get home and devour planned ham omelette with salad

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 20:10

Just in case anyone doubted how effective this woe is...I am down 7 pounds in a fortnight

[air punch]

HandMini · 23/01/2018 20:14

Woo woo Lamb. That’s brilliant. Well done.

NFD here today and managed not too badly.

FD tomorrow. Going to kill this one with a chickpea curry!!

Smile
m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 20:17

Oooh I love Bath. I'm about an hour away. Shame about all the meetings though 😆

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 20:22

Am there once a week m0ther. I love it too, wish it wasn't so far away!

Butteredparsn1ps · 23/01/2018 20:38

Well done I am

Have closed the kitchen for today on 458 calories, not including skimmed milk in my cups of Tea. As someone who is usually permanently hungry, I have surprised myself about how bearable no snacking is. It's very clear that snacking was driving my hunger, so now hoping to find the psychological willpower to steer clear.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 20:40

Welcome, blueBelle Smile
Crikey, that sounds scary - fingers crossed that you can avoid that horrid dental work.

Dental problems
You probably take these precautions already:

  • drink water and rinse / mouthwash asap after eating drinking anything except water - not just sweet things
  • added sugar and also fruit are especially bad, so rinse immediately
  • avoid fruit juice - it's very acidic
  • cut out all fizzy drinks, even diet ones - I posted on a previous thread about research showing how fizz damages tooth enamel. Fizz also leaches Calcium & other minerals from your bones, as well as increasing the risk of kidney stones & amage.
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 20:43

Well done on your SV, blossom

iirc, you were frustrated because nothing happened the first few days ?
You focused and stayed patient - and 7lb in 2 weeks shows that's the right strategy

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 23/01/2018 20:45

Lamb - 7lbs Shock that’s absolutely fantastic.

And lamb and mother haha I’m not far away from there 20 mins in the car.

I regret not taking a sample now as they had mini 90% coco bars in Lindt and I know a few of you rave about them.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 20:47

Sorry, m0therofdragons I misread your post about sw.
Some folk who don't lose much on sw do sometimes come here to combine it with 5:2

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 21:06

No problem @BigChocFrenzy - I do waffle on!

purpleviolet1 · 23/01/2018 21:17

I've binged today Blush definite FD tomorrow. I know it's going to be tough as my first one after a break always is. I find once I'm in the swing of them they are much easier.

So 1 weetobix to start the day with then lots and lots of water. Will try and get salmon for dinner

purpleviolet1 · 23/01/2018 21:17

Actually I'll have an omelette instead

m0therofdragons · 23/01/2018 21:27

Kitchen closed on 471. That's my second FD.
Is there a benefit to doing 3 FD the first week while I'm enthusiastic the drop to 2? I'm just thinking Friday would be an easy FD but already done Sunday and today.

Iamblossom · 23/01/2018 21:28

Thankyou bigchoc yes I was aghast at gaining a pound after a week of 5:2 so I am testament to just sticking at it and waiting for your body to catch up!!!

quackingduck222 · 23/01/2018 21:30

Mother - I suppose it depends what days you start your FD but I always thought it was Mon-Sunday Grin

Some people do alternate FD as in every other day so I’m sure 3 is fine.

quackingduck222 · 23/01/2018 21:33

Definitely lamb, we all have blips on the scales but carry on and wait for it to catch up exactly like you have

southeastlondonmum · 23/01/2018 21:35

Really tough fast day. Very busy today and was starving and lacking in energy. I am normally much better on a fast. Still finished under 498 and can eat tomorrow

BlueBelle123 · 23/01/2018 21:43

First FD done this year, it was remarkably easy as we've had workmen in all day so I couldn't even get to the kitchen...... planning my next FD on Thursday, somehow I don't think it will be quite so easySmile

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2018 21:55

Well done on your 1st FD, BlueBelle

M0therofdragons If that 3rd FD won't mess up next week's timing AND won't cause you to reward yourself more at the weekend …
then you could try it - maybe turn it into a miniFD if you find it tougher than expected.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread