Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OuchBollocks · 22/01/2018 15:03

Well done quacking. Balls to the scales indeed.

I am hungry. I have had a cup a soup and a small cube of cheese so far. It doesn't help that I am very much not busy at work.

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 15:09

Thanks Ouch!

Keep drinking and drinking some more then you will be busy with all the toilet trips Blush

MightyMunki · 22/01/2018 15:12

Have woken up after my night shift and managed on just water so far from midnight. Feeling really good today for some reason, planning a lovely cup of tea and a good dinner. I think lamb and BCF have described it well, feels good to be lighter and not so full and bloated, like giving the body a break.

cajo · 22/01/2018 15:54

FD for me today - so far have just had a 0% Total yoghurt with some blueberries. Going to have ratatouille for evening meal. V. disappointed because managed to gain 2lb since last FD despite being well under TDEE for every day, but as people have said am hoping this is water retention and will go quickly.

Good luck to everyone fasting today - keep going!!

purpleviolet1 · 22/01/2018 16:48

Could someone post the insulting / snack graph please? I'll save it this time. Scrolled through the last thread and didn't find it but I've obviously missed it..

purpleviolet1 · 22/01/2018 16:49

Insulin!

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 17:08

Here you are purple- it was on the last thread.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.
5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.
slinkyme · 22/01/2018 19:24

Thanks snail. I had no idea you could also track some measurements on MFP. Duck I too have been keeping it on my notes in my phone. There definitely has been movement in all areas even when the scales haven't changed. Favourite clothes also feel loser - especially around waist and thighs. In 5 days I have lost a cm each every everywhere (tummy, waist, calf, arm etc) and 2.5 cm (1 inch) from my hips.

Dinner done now of roast vegetables. Not easy in the middle of the day today but got through. Think I went a bit mad with the Tabasco on my veggies and my tummy is now aching. Ahh all the things I will eat tomorrow - ofcourse won't want them as much when I get there.

Hope your day is going well and for the fasters it's almost there.

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 19:29

that’s fabulous news slinky. It’s definitely a eye opener.

I had similar situation yesterday I’ve found a love for pickles. Gerkins id never fried until a week ago and then and pickled onions are quite low in cals so I had quite a few over the last few days. Was in absolute agony last night. I think my tummy was pickled Grin

Iamblossom · 22/01/2018 19:37

Kitchen closed at 516 and have my lovely creamy options hot choc to sip.

Looking forward to an early night and a nice breakfast.

Well done all Monday fasters! Nailed it.

HLBug · 22/01/2018 20:02

Finishing on 650 kcals - not to bad given this only turned into a FD at 1pm and I did a Mini on Saturday. Happy enough Smile

peachypips · 22/01/2018 20:19

Well done everyone. Closing here at 550 (whoops).

Got bumped up to first class for my London work trip tomorrow. So NFD AND first class!

MightyMunki · 22/01/2018 20:37

Closing the kitchen here at 450. We’ll done all Monday fasters.

snailhunter · 22/01/2018 20:41

Kitchen closed at 550! Very pleased with that. No headache at all, either! So must have been premenstrual last week.

HLBug · 22/01/2018 20:41

peachy you're living the dream Grin

OuchBollocks · 22/01/2018 20:44

I have eaten all I will eat but still have another hour and a half before I can go home. Luckily I don't bring any money to work or else the vending machine would be hard to resist Grin

Justanothernap · 22/01/2018 20:50

Aghhh ordered some Lindt dark chocolate on my online food shop.. and somehow ended up with a box of those Lindt chocolate balls too. I freaking love them. I ate one. Only human. Still good FD apart from that. (Assuming I stop at 1..)

Well done all the 'losers' fionne & lamb & parsnips etc. All doing so well.

Sympathy to those with the non-sleepers.. hope all that's going better.

Feelings of doom on FDs is an interesting one. Sometimes I feel a bit like that & I think just get your head down. Sometimes I almost enjoy them. Depends on my mood in general I think.

Welcome sleepy & also balls to the scales made me laugh quacking hope it cheers up others having a blip.

Right going to paint my nails to avoid eating more chocolate.

HandMini · 22/01/2018 20:54

Super FD here.

Lots of water and herbal tea until 7pm, then had a small spinach soup, a small chickpea and tuna salad, an apple and 5 cashew nuts.

I definitely find a couple of small portions of different things helps to feel like a fuller meal rather than one larger portion of one thing.

To bed with some black tea now.

NFD tomorrow but still aiming for max veg, low carb, loads water and NO SNACKING!

purpleviolet1 · 22/01/2018 21:15

Soon after I posted I decided to have an NFD today instead. NFD tomorrow and first FD will be on Wednesday.

Mrstumbletap · 22/01/2018 21:17

Ah yes he did do a long fast with just those soups, I remember now. Thanks bigchoc.

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 21:18

Just - love them Lindor balls. Talking of Lindor I’m going to the lovely Lindor shop tomorrow. Just for a look & sniff mind you.
I will not be tempted.

Debating wether to turn tomorrow into a FD, off shopping and nothing healthy to eat there anyway so I may just do a FD.

Well done to all the fasters today, fasting on a Monday is dedication!

GrannyPenny · 22/01/2018 21:30

Purple - insulting snack graph made me laugh! I thought for a minute it was a "naughty chart" I was going to have to start filling in!

Quacking - congratulations on your 25 miles - great achievement! Hope you're going to join the February challenge ... .

Slinky - I track my weight and waist on MFP, but on my netbook. Can't get to grips with using the phone app - the screen's far too small!

For those with non-sleeping DCs - have you tried Epsom Salt baths? Worked quite nicely for my 2 year old DGC and recently they've introduced Lush sleepy time lotion before bedtime and he's been sleeping much better. Not reliably through, but much better.

I may end up on a mini FD today - we have had visitors turn up who were hungry, so curry is divided by 4.

CheshireSplat · 22/01/2018 21:48

Had a reasonable FD today considering I had no suitable food in the house, so had 2 cupasoups and a small packet of crisps at work. A mushroom omelette for tea and so many cups of tea the milk has pushed me over the 500 I'm sure, but I'm pleased I did it as nearly jacked it in when I realised I didn't have anything decent for lunch.

I've also measured my waist at the narrowest part. 84 cm. I'm 5'3" which is 160 cm. So for my waist to be half my height, I need to lose 4cm. I thought that didn't sound too bad! My BMI would still be overweight then, I'm sure (I'm about 1 stone of BMI of 25). So, I'll treat it as Milestone 1.

Has anyone lost 4cm? Any idea how much weight that would be? And I'm much much wider around my tummy than at that narrow point so need to consider my visceral fat.

Pumperthepumper · 22/01/2018 22:01

Hello all, I started today with a FD. Finished at 510, which I’m happy with. Did struggle a bit around 3pm-ish though. So looking forward to breakfast in the morning!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2018 23:12

Congrats on your inches NSV, slinky Amazing in just a week.

Great running NSV, duck Very well done for persisting when it got tough.

OP posts: