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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 72: After the winter feasting, here comes the winter fasting. We jumped into January; we won’t freak out in February and we’ll March on together in the Mighty 5:2 Army.

977 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Iamblossom · 22/01/2018 07:38

Morning all. Fresh bread! Omg....

I am very pleased as am 5 pounds down in this morning's weigh in from last Monday.

FD today:

1 egg and 1 cracker twice (at two different times in the day)

Prawn salad for tea with an options hot choc before bed.

Will fit a run (5km) and a dog walk in at some point.

Good luck today fellow fasters!!

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 07:47

Well done fionne & Blossom that’s fantastic.

I’ve actually gained this week. Not a single piece of junk has touched my lips. I’m still doing BSD principals and fasted twice. I’ve MFP everything and weighed everything too.

Disappointed but will soldier on. Meal out Friday that’s kept me going all month.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

purpleviolet1 · 22/01/2018 07:54

Checking in for my FD today.

Weetobix to start the day (keeps me regular but am hoping to change to overnight porridge oats soon)

And salmon / veg for dinner tonight.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2018 08:17

Good luck to all the Monday fasters Smile

Congrats on your SV, Fionne

6.6 kg in 2 weeks is just over a stone
That will slow down once you get rid of the retained water, when you will just be losing fat, but that's ok - slowing down later would help reduce loose skin too.
Getting rid of LL that retained water should reduce your high BP and as you lose more fat, that should help reduce your preT2

Well done on your SV too, blossom
Your alcohol NSV probably helped kickstart this

Don't worry purple Sounds like a blip: undigested food, hormonal swings, swings in retained water ……
Have you been drinking enough water ? Too little can hinder fat-burning and oddly enough can worsen water retention
Drink a glass now and keep drinking through the day.
Also cut back on fizz if you're drinking it.

OP posts:
Butteredparsn1ps · 22/01/2018 08:33

Starting the week 3lb down, good news for a Monday morning.

Heading out for a run later. I've managed not to snack over the weekend. My goal now is to keep it up once I get to my desk.

Good luck with the FD today

peachypips · 22/01/2018 08:34

Also checking in for my FD. Does anyone else wake up on a FD with a sense of dread? I always wake on a Mon feeling quite down at the prospect of hardly any food.

I guess this points to me having an emotional relationship with it.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2018 08:35

MrsTumble You are confusing the different fasting systems shown in that Horizon program:
what are now called "periodic fasting" - which needs medical supervision - and "intermittent fasting" - which is what we do

"Periodic fasting:"
Mosely first tried a nearly total fast for 5 days - he was just allowed that tiny soup.
It was proposed to do this once every month or so, to combat some health problems he had, like T2, high BP, risk of cancer

He did it once, but said he wouldn't do it again, because it was horrendous and left him feeling weak
It also required medical supervision, which was impractical for him and for 99.9% of his viewers

5:2 - which is a form of "intermittent fasting"
500 cals on 2 days per week,
This was suggested as a more practical alternative by Dr Mark Mattson, a leading researcher into degenerative and chronic diseases of middle / old age.

Mosely found this very doable and continued for weeks
As we know this is what reversed his T2, turned his health round and lost fat around his mid-section, preserving his muscle.

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 22/01/2018 08:41

Well done buttered!

peachy I don't particularly look forward to fasting. But I quite like the sense of control it gives me. As in I am in control of food not the other way round.

On NFDs I frequently finish my meal and think "god I could so easily eat that again" or, "I'm still hungry". I then wait or have water and give my body time to realise I am full. I feel quite relieved in Fast Days that I don't have that battle.

Not sure any of this makes sense...

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2018 08:46

Well done on your SV too, parsn1ps and on your no snacking NSV

Shifts can be really tough, Minki but you'll see more progress if you cut out snacking
Instead of snacking, try to drink a glass of water and clean your teeth for a fresh taste, to reduce temptation.

peachy I am a happily greedy person, but not an emotional eater (or does greed count as an emotion ? Grin)

I quite enjoy my FDs
I feel relaxed, maybe because I have extra time to chill, saved from meals
but also because I visualise the fasting switching my body to repair mode
I concentrate on healthy food, lots of water, then an early night

Try to look at FDs as healthy days, that are positive and healthy for your body
2 treat days for your bod, because it deserves it

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 22/01/2018 09:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

slinkyme · 22/01/2018 09:35

Checking in for FD today. Weight bounced up back to 60.9 after a heavy Sunday and feeling quite bunged up. But that's fine. I'm in it for the long run. Have a good day everybody.

OuchBollocks · 22/01/2018 09:43

FD today. I have 3 late shifts from today until Wednesday, so have made a big pot of veggie curry for the 3 nights. It is around 1700 cal for the pot, so just under 600 cal for my dinner. I am tapering down my breastfeeding calories as DS approaches his first birthday in 6 weeks, though he is loaded with the cold and foregoing food (and sleep!) in favour of nursing round the clock. Yawn sigh.

GrannyPenny · 22/01/2018 10:34

Morning all.

Fionne - I have loads of small milestones to keep me going - switching from kilos/pounds weight wise and inches/cm waist wise depending on which milestone I can take advantage of.

Congratulations on those with SVs - and for those who have put on over the weekend, remember you need to over-eat by 3500 calories to put on a lb, so assuming you haven't, then it's likely to be mostly water retention.

So, I snacked late last night. Was feeling hungry and when I put my evening meal into MFP it came out as total calories for the day just over 900, so I had half a peanut butter sandwich. And half a jar of pickled cocktail gherkins.

NFD for me. Goals - no snacks; run tonight; no snacks.

Do the snacking cravings ever really go away or is it just exercising self control?

Sleepymumma13 · 22/01/2018 10:44

Morning all!

I'm starting 5:2 today after reading lots and lots and doing it twice before but only for a week each time (don't ask!) my mum has been doing it 3 weeks and I am now heavier than when I wanted to lose weight before.
I'm 5ft 8 and 13st 5, age 31, mum to three and massively comfort eating. Am going to be doing 2 fasts a week and trying to eat slightly below my TDEE on other days just to adjust my eating habits.
Today I've had water and a black coffee with a sweetner! Good luck everyone x

PostNotInHaste · 22/01/2018 10:45

Some good losses here, well done ! Sympathies to those who have gained, annoying but at least by doing this and keeping an eye on things you know it it undigested food, hormones etc rather than fat.

FD for me today. Have done a gentle run and a dog walk. Was thinking I’d do 800 cals and worked things out on that but am ok so far and might do less depending on how I feel.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2018 11:32

Welcome, sleepy Smile and good luck on your 1st FD
Motivation - Don't let your mum beat you in this Wink
Tip: no snacks, NFDs or FDs

OP posts:
snailhunter · 22/01/2018 11:54

Still no food here and feeling fine on a coffee and a ginger tea, and tons of water. You can do it, fellow fasters!

peachypips I am finding that I feel a bit of dread the night before an FD but once I'm awake, it's fine - it's almost like I'm turning off that bit of my brain that is interested in food for that day. I'm working in the house today (usually up in the garden office) as I'm waiting for a delivery. There's a gorgeous big banana cake sitting on the worktop. I'm not really seeing it. Weird.

purpleviolet1 · 22/01/2018 12:19

BCF 9st 6lbs is pretty much the lowest since I've started! (If you discard the 9st 5lb the day after I was sick all day and didn't eat) so I'm really pleased. No blip Grin but blip is probably coming , TOTM next week

slinkyme · 22/01/2018 12:41

Does anybody know a good app where you can track body measurements? I am using MFP for weight tracking but would like to track the others. As I think those will move more than the scales. Failing that I will create my own spreadsheet.

HLBug · 22/01/2018 13:46

So many people fasting today! You've inspired me to join you Smile Well, that and the fact I had a real hankering for smoked salmon and eggs for lunch. Delicious!

peachypips · 22/01/2018 14:10

My down feeling might be as much down to grey weather at this time of year! I do hate fasting though- am also greedy BCF Grin as well as being a comfort eater!

Now I've got the hang of sticking to my TDEE I like NFDs- I eat a lighter lunch then a nice big dinner!

Don't know any apps...

Hi Sleepy- a great and most helpful group here. I am also a comfort eater.

My eldest son is 10 on Thurs. That means I've been a parent for ten years! I can't believe it. Also means I've been overweight for ten years.

Just finished a lunchtime HIIT class. Very funny as am less than coordinated.

Iamblossom · 22/01/2018 14:11

2 crackers so far today, lots of black tea and coffee and water.

5km run and walked dog.

peachypips I am finding that I feel a bit of dread the night before an FD but once I'm awake, it's fine - it's almost like I'm turning off that bit of my brain that is interested in food for that day.

yes this is my approach too. Plus I think, well I've got this far if I sabotage it now i'll have to do it some other day..

Iamblossom · 22/01/2018 14:12

sorry I don't measure so don't know any measuring apps

snailhunter · 22/01/2018 14:18

slinkyme MFP has slots for neck, waist and hip measurements if that helps - if you go to 'progress' and touch 'weight' at the top in blue, it should come up with 'select a measurement'.

quackingduck222 · 22/01/2018 14:57

Slinky - I just keep a record on my notes section on my phone. I thankfully also have a manual record I’ve kept for 2 years scribbled on a envelope as I forgot to back up my notes when I got a new phone. Grin

I’ve cheered up a bit now, balls to the scales! I’ve been keeping a weekly photo diary and despite what they say I’m sure I can see a difference in my stomach this week.

Run competed and I hit my 25miles. I’ve hated it but tears filled my eyes when I reached my marker point.

It feels good that I’ve achieved something I didn’t think I could.