5:2 Thread number 51: Whoever said "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" obviously never tasted ice cream or chocolate ! 5:2 is for those who enjoy good food and don't want to diet every damn day

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced on BBC Horizon on August 2012:
Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means somewhere around the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

For most folk, 5:2 results in a weekly 3,000 calorie deficit, so averages 1 lb loss. However, some folk may lose much more quickly / slowly, or in fits & starts.
Initial weight loss may be much quicker, especially if you have a lot of weight to lose.

When you are within a healthy BMI range and just want to trim a few more lb, progress may be much slower and you may need to monitor carefully that you don't average above TDEE on non-fast days.

Acronyms & Calculators:

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight normally needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men) or 1000 cals for BF
If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful website or app to track food & drink caloriesi

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day. TDEE is calculated from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this over the week's NFDs.

To speed up your weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight,
but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that to maintain our new healthy weight longterm requires a permanent change in how we eat.

How to Start

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator above as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

FAQs / Tips:

• WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, just count any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice.

Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Many prefer to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar and junk food. A few treats per week are good though!

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF. If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

• Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, have past or present EDs, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads
Browse previous 5:2 threads in the fasting section

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s thread collects practical tips and info we have gained over all the 5:2 threads. It is especially useful for newbies.

Inspirational: eatriskier’s Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.
Read to boost your motivation.
Add your own when you have lost weight too

Recipes: frenchfancy has collected delicious FD recipes from all the threads.
Post your own here too.

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has a Thread for advice & support on combining 5:2 with a healthy exercise regime.
The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Maintaining: talkinpeace has a Thread for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining.
Some of those sharing experiences have been maintaining for 2 years, which shows 5:2 is sustainable longterm.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting
==================

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was fat, not muscle, which is unusually good for a diet.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease
Also this ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLomgo , and a LongoInterview

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Congrats on your SV, igivein
You have done so well and you believe in your abilities now. You must be proud of that too

After 12 weeks, I recommend you slow down your weight loss now to 1 kg or less per week. This will allow your body and organs like gallbladder etc to adjust safely and process all the fat you are losing.
I know you want to be rid of the weight, but this slower rate will also help avoid skin folds etc, because your skin's elasticity will be able to cope.

You can add portions of healthy food like fish, nuts, avocado, olives, olive oil - just what you'll find in Italy, so perfect timing.

Enjoy your holiday with all the glorious Italian food & culture. It sounds absolute bliss

j200 congrats on the baby and good luck with the 5:2 ... just give yourself time!

The plateau I was at seems nicely broken now, trying another FD today. One thing I love about 5:2 is that if you don´t manage a day you can pick yourself up and try again tomorrow. Still in the 'overweight' category but a few more successful fast days and with luck I'll cross the line into 'normal' ... Btw I can't seem to get that interesting BBC BMI calc up on -any- browser now (chrome, firefox, opera) Is anyone else having toruble with it?

Thanks BigChoc, losing the weight is not as easy as I anticipated despite the fact that I have maintained the BMI of around 19.5 all my adult life with little effort outside of pregnancy. But it is happening!

With exercise, I don't really do yoga for weight loss, but because if makes me feel amazing. I now find I spend at least 5 days a week doing between 60 to 90 mins of yoga. Would you suggest the weight would fall off quicker if I swapped it for some more high intensity stuff? I can't really justify spending more time exercising on top of all the yoga, I have significant mummy guilt as it is. I guess what I am asking is whether 20 mins high intensity stuff would make a difference every day or would I have to commit more time to if?

j200 how I feel your pain. I love sweets. MIL bought me my favourite type of fudge a few weeks ago, 500 grams of it at 600kcal per 100 grams. It took me one afternoon to scoff all of it. But BigChoc is absolutely right, the more you have the more you want. I found herbal tea really helps me last until the evening. I never used to drink the stuff and I experimented with lots of brands, but find Taylor's Spiced Apple really delicious. Every time I crave a sweet I make a pot of tea. I drink around 6 pints of it a day and I have not had a 3000kcal fudge binge since I started doing that. I was hoping BF would be burning more calories, but I found some research that suggests that while you are BF your body becomes more efficient at getting the most of all the calories you consume. Just what we needed, eh?

NFD today, after a breakfast of soft boiled eggs and leftover coffee and walnut cake (homemade with little sugar, promise!) I am now saving my calories for a lovely evening meal with the family. Might even have some trifle for pudding :).

and congrats onebirth too ... was it orgasmic? :D

I put weight on when bfíng unfortunately. I did try dieting but it was just too much until right near the end of the bf'ing. Think everyone is different ...

Thanks for your support ladies

One O, I'm exactly the same, have always been a size 8 BMI 19.5ish as I have a small frame so this tummy is horrendous! I tend to have an options hot choc in the evenings but will def try out the tea as am a fan of apple and camomile! I'm impressed you manage to fit in the yoga, I can just about do a 15 mins HIT DVD at the moment but power walk with the buggy for 1-2 hours whilst he's napping. Are you sticking to 1000 cal fast days or going lower?

Aiming for c 13-1400 cals/day this weekend rather than pig out and will start proper fast Monday so not such a shock.

Plan for dinner- hake Provençal and green veg. Total 0% strawberries and options hot choc. No mini eggs!!!

Flug, sorry to hear your DS may be diagnosed a coeliac, but as others have said, it's good that it's being picked up early.

Just wanted to say I have GF pancake/chocolate cake recipes, etc,o here on my blog.

And it's much easier to find GF stuff these days.

Really enjoyed reading the thread this morning, as usual; good to see so many posters benefitting from this WWOL (Wonderful Way of Life! )

About bingeing - twice this morning I've stopped myself from reaching for the chocolate (I keep it for my work, honest!), by remembering the advice from my dentist. She says only eat chocolate as part of a meal!

And if you do have a box of your favourite fudge given to you, open a jar of Marmite* before opening the box of fudge. Have two pieces, then, when you find yourself reaching for a third, stick your finger in the jar of Marmite and suck on that instead. Your desire for a piece of fudge will miraculously disappear!

(*Other spreads are available!)

Coming on to scream! I have the worst PMT imaginable .... dh congratulated me on being utterly vile earlier ... oooops.

FD today, usually I feel quite zen - but I could rip someone's head off today - NFD yesterday & I went quite badly over TDEE (500) due to poor planning, evening out & too much wine ... that's not improving my mood. I fasted sun/tues/thurs/today so I expect I haven't done too much harm but meh :/

Thanks for the comments re CD ... ds is currently taking iron supps & I'm trying to put it to the back of my mind until the appointment (mid May) - he seems healthy & full of energy, I was pretty shocked when the blood results came back.

Meerka thanks very much! Alas, DD's birth was not orgasmic as such, but still a pretty fantastic experience. I was very lucky with how things turned out and I really enjoyed it. Dieting while BFing is a funny old thing, I could never have done it when I was feeding DS, but this time round I don't find it an issue. I think it helps that she has been sleeping through the night for the last couple of weeks and has always been a good sleeper. Such a far cry from DS who needed feeding every 3 hrs every night until he was 18 months old.

J200, my secret to feeding my yoga habit is having a brilliant gym crèche where I do most of my classes. I feed DD, pop her in the pram and go for a walk to the gym. She normally stays asleep throughout the class, and they can come and find me if she gets hungry, which never happened so far. If DS is home, he comes with her as they take children up to 8 yrs. With a zeal of a new convert (I've only been practising regularly for 3yrs) I recommend yoga to everyone because of how amazing it makes me feel. I'll shut up now.
As for FD kcals, I tend to aim for 500-600. I am still hungry on a 1000kcals, and I find I don't lose as much weight to keep myself motivated long term, but I decreased the calories gradually as I did not want to affect my milk supply or my mood too much.

Breadandwine, the effect of my sugar addiction on my teeth is one of my biggest worries. Thanks for the marmite tip, I hate it so I am rather certain it will put me off having treats in the first place in order to avoid having to lick the vile stuff. I gather I cannot expect similar craving-curbing results by dipping my finger into a jar of Nutella? Well, that is a shame.

Flugdrachen, DS had temporary gluten intolerance when he was younger and I found MN incredibly helpful. There is a poster who has a huge spreadsheet of gf recipes saved as a google doc. I can find you a link if you need it. My sympathy to you and family on account of your wine hangover; I had to stop drinking the stuff as it makes me sleepy and then turns me into the snappiest woman on the planet. At least I can still drink gin!

NFD today was scrambled eggs sans my usual toast, left over veg curry and then veggie pizza. Small portions. A friend came over and brought home made salted caramel cheesecake! Dear god that was delicious. Savoured it totally and it was my only snack :) also DS demolished his tomato and cream cheese on rice cake lunch which I'm so proud of as we've only been doing BLW a couple of weeks! Good stuff all round :) so lovely to be able to post here for the ongoing support, you guys are great. Hope you've all had good days too :)

OneOrg You might find that swapping to HIIT would speed up weight loss. It would probably increase fitness too. Try martial arts, circuits, HIIT spin (not the slow beginners type), Tabata
If you keep a yoga class, add say 15 mins ripe skipping before or after.

oops rope skipping. Done properly, you should smell ripe afterwards

Hi all,

After reading all the messages in this thread (yes, all of them), I'd like to join please.

I have always been sort of overweight. In my twenties, though I wasn't the right shape, I wasn't overweight. I am 5ft 4 and I was 62 kg for a long time and late twenties, it all crept up and now at 38, I am 74. Interestingly, pregnancy didn't do much to change the weight. But, I was super strict with my diet and walked every single day. It must have helped, I think.

I would really like to lost 12 kg. Over the last 1.5 months, I have started doing weights and 10 min of HIIT, twice a week. I have borderline hypertension and borderline cholesterol and have been told by doc to lose weight if i don't want to go on medications. Have a family history of hypertension, so have to be careful. My body fat percentage is around 41%, pretty high !! and muscle mass is around 26%.

I meant to start 5:2 this week, but, my two FDs (Tue and Fri) didn't quite go according to plan and I may have gone more closer to 700. But, all the NFDs, I have been low carbing. I am hoping the FDs will get easier.

I am prone to getting bad migraines, and got one on both FDs. DId drink lot of water. Any tips on how to cope with this

Wish me luck in this NWOL

Thank you

Hi spg

It does get easier - honest!

It's late, so I'm off to bed - just wanted to welcome you to the thread and to reassure you that you're in the right place!

Welcome, spg Well done on maintaining and exercising during pg.

You have started 5:2
700 cals are a decent attempt at your first FDs. Some folk need a while to get down to 500 cals. Don't worry, you still achieved a good calorie deficit

To avoid FD headaches:
a teasp of Marmite (10 cals) say mid-morning and mid-afternoon.
The B vits and salt content often help, especially if you low carb. Alternatively a tbsp of unsweetened soya sauce (also 10 cals)

All cricket fans: enjoy the final tomorrow

spg I got headaches with first few fast days both times ive been on the 5:2. They pass after a few fast days I found as long as you drink enough water / herbal tea/ coffee, though if the marmite or soya helps that's great

Just checking in. Even though I've been quiet the last few days I'm still watching :)
Welcome any newcomers that I've missed, well done all losers and big congrats for all completed FD.

I'm slowly picking myself up, today I feel a bit better since finding out about Dm.

I ate a meal last night for the first time since wednesday - Dh practically forced me but job done! I managed to keep it down unlike the previous days so that's good.
Crazy! , and it goes against everything we know about weight/ stress/cortisol but anxiety/stress strips weight off me. Back in 2010 I lost over 4 stones in less than 6 months during another very difficult period

Hopefully I'll feel a bit more like myself tomorrow and get some exercise done as I've not done anything more than walk for the last few days.

Take care all and I hope you've all had a nice weekend.

Thanks for the tips regarding headaches on FDs. More peppermint tea and a tsp of soy sauce on next FD (Tue).

This thread is great and thanks to all of you for sharing your wisdom, experiences and tips. It means a lot to me: inspiration and encouragement as well as practical tips.

Another weekend of over indulgence here

I'm maintaining my weight the past 2 weeks and not looking to lose any more so why do I feel so guilty?

Today I've eaten far too much carb heavy stuff so I still feel ravenous! I used to be veggie and relied heavily on carbs to see me through... Now I tend to have decent meat most dinners, scrambled eggs or omelettes at lunchish but I'm so stuck for other protein-y lunches to see me through I've added ham and cream cheese to the shopping list... Anyone have any good ideas?? So fed up of being hungry an hour after I've eaten!

Finally got my digital scales out of the many boxes still hanging about since our move. Have been using old style ones up to now.

Digital scales tell me I'm an utterly depressing 2.5kg heavier than the needle-style ones . So I'm at 84kg. Which is at the very top of what I've been over the past few years. Which makes we wonder just how high my weight had actually crept

Hello ladies,
I'm looking for some advice for the next week please.
I've done my first week of LC 5:2. I've not weighed in yet, but will do tomorrow.
I found my fast days pretty easy, I just lived on coffee and almond milk and water until supper and then had a 400cal meal. ( rabbit and broccoli first FD and a big omelette on the second FD).

However they were only easy because I was working so not cooking for the children all day. This week it's the school holidays and and my work days are different which mean that they also clash with a night out of got planned.
So I'm going to fast tomorrow, and then was thinking about doing 2 Mini FDS on tues and wed as I think I'll real struggle to fast while the kids are around, equally I don't want to miss out on a much longed for night out with mates!

What would you all do?

mootime I don't fast when I'm home - with kids or without. I'm a mindless/boredom/emotional eater. So being home just offers too much in the way of temptation.

That said, I have found over the past few weekends that I'm better able to not eat with the DC "just because" and to actually choose to eat only when I'm hungry. So maybe it's a case of willpower and getting used to it.

squiggle how about tofu, cottage cheese, chickpeas, lentils, quinoa or tuna?

FD here. I think I've found a way to distribute FD calories that works best for me - a small 100 kcal breakfast and then the other 400 or so kcals for dinner.

Thanks VViola,
I work from home and as long as I don't start eating, I'm pretty much ok until supper (but only by mainlining coffee and almond milk! )
But home with the kids and its a different story. I find prepping food almost like torture when I'm hungry.
I'll do my FD tomorrow and maybe try one on Tuesday, then if I fail I can try again on wed??!
The other thought was that I could fast from wed lunchtime- thurs lunchtime meaning I could go out on Thursday without feeling guilty!