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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2014 23:13

Raskova Try keeping the resistance on the machine at a higher level. It may have a speed limit.
So for your recovery, you keep this level but just go very slowly.

OP posts:
ChocolateTwist · 09/05/2014 09:03

Thank you BigChoc, you are such a mine of information (which is meant as much more of a compliment than it sounds!) I will carry on with the fast fitness protocol, I think, keeping strictly to the intervals, which were juuust about long enough to recover, and incorporate some long walks and yoga because I'm about as flexible as a fence post.

ChocolateTwist · 09/05/2014 11:58

By the way, as I was getting off the stationary bike just now having done the fast exercise protocol again, I happened to notice that my average heart rate was reading 192! So either I was only registering mine during the intervals, or I got a high heart rate or our machine is quirky too!

ErrolTheDragon · 09/05/2014 13:59

After the rest of my workout this morning (6week6pack plus some free weights) I dug out DHs 10kg dumbells which were lurking in the garage and did a couple of deadlifts with them. Not quite ready to move them into the house but will ere long I hope . Grin

Raskova · 09/05/2014 18:47

Sorry for all the questions but...

I thought the best weight loss was when your heart is at target rate. My boss who had the heart attack is now back an says that 145 is target fat burning rate and my 185 max hr and 164 target are just going to help my heart? What's the truth?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2014 19:18

Your boss is wrong about fat-burning, but maybe you should be more tactful than I am
Smile
You burn a lot more calories at a higher heart rate, so even though a lower % may be from fat, the absolute total fat burned is higher.

There are also more metabolic and fitness benefits from more intense workouts.

OP posts:
Raskova · 09/05/2014 19:48

He agreed the HIIT would improve metabolism and overall fat burning.

He said if you go at max hr or 185 ish then it's great for heart and lungs etc but means your liver releases a chemical so the body holds on to everything for survival mode.

He's always lying/not quite right. Hmm

ErrolTheDragon · 09/05/2014 22:47

I'm sure I read somewhere recently (must have been either in the Saturday Times or the Fast Exercise book) that the 'target heart rates' for fat burning that you see on exercise machines are based on outdated information. So your boss has probably been told this in good faith, and is passing it on genuinely but that doesn't mean he's correct.

The other thing with moderate intensity as opposed to HIIT is of course the effect on appetite - so whether one burns more fat than the other or not, people doing moderate intensity exercise versus HIIT tend to lose less weight because they want to eat more.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2014 00:35

Yes, those target heart rates on the machines are rubbish.
The more cals you burn, the more fat.

Also, many scientific studies have proved HIIT burns more cals than moderate intensity exercise in the 24 hours afterwards
Thos is because HIIT is tougher on the body, so requires more cals for repair.

Very non-geek article comparing HIIT / moderate steady state Here

OP posts:
Raskova · 10/05/2014 07:42

He was only told this a few weeks ago though. Wink by consultants none the less.

He does HIIT now but it's more moderate really. He says his heart beats 20-25bpm less now so has to get it to 165.

He's been a lot nicer to me recently but he's been told to pick another target so I think he's trying to prove I never was one. He's moved by role from an office job to a very manual one so I'm hoping that with with eating less, manual work all morning, walking on my dinner and going to the gym, I'll start to see some weightloss at some point...

MazzleDazzle · 10/05/2014 13:17

Quick, before my phone battery dies!

The last 7 days I've...
15 mile walk
3 x HIIT classes
1 x circuit training class
4 mile bike ride
3K run
Some yoga!

And up until 3 months ago I hadn't left the sofa for 3 and a half years. I know this is a me, me, me post, but I'm so chuffed!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2014 13:33

Well done, Mazzle, you absolutely should be chuffed with how you've built up your exercise. Great turnround !
Flowers

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2014 13:49

Since it is our gym spin-athon, I'm doing a much longer session than normal. And on an FD too.
Smile
I've had 2 espressos and 2 protein shakes so far, so had plenty of energy to do a relaxed warmup spin followed by an HIIT spin.
I'm having a long surf break, then I'll do some pullups, pressups, abs and heavy upper body lifts.

OP posts:
ChocolateTwist · 10/05/2014 14:06

Congratulations, Mazzle that is such a big achievement :) anyone can lose a few pounds but you are changing your body into an awesome exercise machine :)

BetsyBell · 10/05/2014 18:04

Whoop! Mazzle Flowers So fantastic :)

MazzleDazzle · 10/05/2014 20:48

Thank you. I'm thrilled. Hopefully it'll be a life time habit. My body actually craves exercise! Pity it craves biscuits too Blush!

My DH has been a bit of a lazy bugger for most of his life. However, never one to be beaten, now that I've started running he has followed suit!

BetsyBell · 10/05/2014 22:03

Pull ups are my new nemesis.

I will achieve you one day pull ups

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2014 22:16

I see on the main thread that a few folk train too often

you need at least one day rest per week from training

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2014 22:33

Betsy Pullups & chinups are tremendously hard, so very few folk - especially women - can do them.
I'm trying chinups and I can't do full ones yet either: I have to take a bit of a jump to start each one, but then I can pull myself up and hold, while I raise my knees for ab exercises.

Also, I am paranoid about avoiding injury at my venerable age.
Smile
I use 5 pullup exercises:
. Reverse / Australian row (see OP) both versions, i.e. palms forward and palms backwards
. Assisted pullups on a machine (with light counterweight)
. Laterals pulldowns (on almost bodyweight now)
. Negative chins, i.e. jump up to raised position and slowly lower myself
. Pullup bar - just installed in my cellar

Good luck to both of us

OP posts:
RachaelAgnes · 11/05/2014 00:11

Have completed my first week of 5:2, and have been looking at what you are all up to exercise wise. Am a bit Shock
I have recently come out of hospital following an asthma attack due to a chest infection.
I'm finding even when walking, although I do not get out of breath, but tire v easily - as in after a 30 brisk walk with my dog!
What can I do to improve my fitness and help the 5:2 along?
P.S. The thought of running scares me!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2014 09:08

Welcome, Rachel .
Smile
Start with "walking intervals" to improve your cardio fitness:
. 5 mins walking at normal pace to warm up
. 1 min brisk walking or, if you can, 30 secs + 30 secs slow jog
. 1 min normal walking pace, to recover
. Repeat the 1 min brisk / normal intervals 5 times
. Continue the rest of your walk at normal pace

Aim to do this on 3 days per week.
You should be able to increase the number of your intervals to 10 within a few weeks and also replace the brisk walk by a gentle jog.
Try some of the walk uphill.

Strength Building
Increasing muscle improves your health and increases your TDEE.
Smile
Do the exercises below on 2 non-consecutive days per week:

Check the OP how to do press-ups and squats. To start squats, watch the video, but don't try to go as far down as knee level and don't squat with weights yet.
If you have access to dumbbells, also see the videos for "behind neck press."
Start with 5 reps of each exercise and then increase to 2 sets of 10 over the next few weeks.

Doing the plank strengthens abs and lower back, which is fundamental to being able to lift. Start by holding this for 10 seconds and repeat once.
After several weeks you may be able to do 3 x 30 secs

OP posts:
RachaelAgnes · 11/05/2014 09:13

BigChoc - thanks. Reading after my night shift, it looks like double Dutch.
Will read again after a sleep, and look at starting tomorrow!

Loving the support on the 5:2 board!

BetsyBell · 11/05/2014 09:42

We found some lower bars in the park which meant we start in sitting position with arms stretched up high and heft ourselves up from there. I have yet to manage doing that with any conviction but it seems like a good place to start.

I can hold myself up on higher, parallel bars and then do the leg/ab work but I can't yet pull myself into position.

I will continue with both and see where that gets me.

I take a group out running in the park each weekend and once we've done our jogging and sprints we play around with the bars and other outdoor gym equipment. There are a few of us determined to get better at hefting our won bodyweight up!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2014 12:02

Betsy Next time you go to the low bars, try the Australian pullup / InvertedRow
You can do one set with both palms facing forward at about shoulder width and another with palms backwards and in a wider position.

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 12/05/2014 17:30

bigchoc I WILL DO THAT THING! And I will make others do it too Grin Thanks for yet another awesome tip :)