Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:11

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and theyj can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for session of up to 90 mins.

Hormesis

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis is cutting edge science for nutrition and fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between "extremes" of feast and fast (5:2 / IF) or intense training and rest (HIIT), makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is NOT necessary for fitness and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Walking outdoors is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref

Also low-moderate or steady state exercise tends to increase appetite, whereas intense exercise can suppress appetite for up to 15 hours.

BEST TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do both HIIT cardio and lifting / resistance training.

FAST Exercise

Dr Mosely developed a Fast Exercise program to complement his 5:2 WOE FastExercise

He lists many HIIT and strength routines that only take a few minutes, but can make significantly improve metabolism and fat-burning capability FastExercises

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are NOT adequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods.
Examples:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low etc.

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis).

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT also improves the insulin metabolism, which is very important for health.

HIIT reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek*(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
You can lift at home, or in the gym weights area, or in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups

  • By far the best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups InclinedPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncreaseNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -bring your arms forward
  • keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup or imverted row InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
squats bent-over rows (press button "female") Behind neckPress (press button "female") dead lift

To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

To Build More Muscle
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Note: Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve your GRIP STRENGTH GripMen , BodyBuild

CALCULATORS:
Fast Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages: HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Breadandwine · 12/05/2014 23:15

More PBs to report:

I can now do three proper chin-ups - using the loft ladder. Although I have to confess my arms aren't completely straight between lifts, my son said they were fine!

HIIT. 2 PBs today. My record, set a month or so ago, was 30 seconds for my 10 widths of the small exercise pool I use. Today I did the first one in 29 seconds – and repeated that for the 2nd stint! I then dropped to 33 seconds for the third run.

I guess I'm about 3/4 of the way to mastering my 6kg kettlebell - I aim to be doing the full 4 sets of 20 by the end of this month.

Breadandwine · 12/05/2014 23:27

Sounds like everyone else is also making good progress - esp. Mazzle and Betsy!

Meant to ask about underwater swimming for HIIT - I did several bursts of between 40 and 50 seconds (32 metres that was) underwater today, and my lungs are bursting when I surface.

BTW, I was bored at a bus stop last week and decided to see how long I could hold my breath for - and I was staggered to find it was over 2 minutes! Obviously, underwater you're working hard, so it's more difficult. I'm aiming for 1 minute underwater - about 40 metres.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2014 00:07

B&W You're a star, 3 full chins now !
Well done indeed and also for holding your breath 2 mins - you could take up pearl-diving
Wink

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 13/05/2014 01:17

Thanks, BC - although much of the credit should go to you!

You know we only put ourselves through this so we can get a pat on the back from you! Grin

BetsyBell · 13/05/2014 08:00

Impressive stuff B&W! My loft ladder is one of those ones with the loft hatch attached to it so I can't use that method. I've found some useful bars in the park though.

bigchoc does give lovely pats on the back doesn't she B&W Grin

I am also hugely inspired by those of you older than me achieving such amazing things with your fitness - it made me realise that if a grandpa can get a 6 pack then no reason why I can't too!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2014 16:09

Aw shucks, you both think carefully and work very hard to create your new bods.
I'm just a backseat driver. Keep posting your milestones, everybody.
Smile
Betsy We've got to crack chins or B&W will be smirking insufferably soon !
It will be very tough: Even in the US Marines, 12 pullups are the mandatory minimum for men, but very few women trainees manage any.

But we shall overcome ^^

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2014 20:06

Boxing has been cancelled for the next 5 weeks - hols and too few people. It may go permanently
Sad Sadly no TaeKwonDo or TaeBo clubs near me.
Anyway, instead of boxing on my FD, I did 100 mins of other hardcore classes: abs, lifting, skipping. As always after new classes, I'm now unknotting muscles.

I'll soon get used to the new regime, good to change the routine around sometimes, anyway.

OP posts:
ChocolateTwist · 14/05/2014 21:40

I'm not sure this is a milestone, but I'm sticking to HIIT three times a week and today I saw a heart rate of 220 during my intervals! I'm young so I'm guessing that is just about possible!
And amazing to complete pull ups Breadandwine

BetsyBell · 15/05/2014 06:50

Aww, shame about the boxing BC.

On the school playground yesterday I was encouraging kids to show me if they could do pull-ups, and the unscientifically small sample size revealed that, in the 5 to 7 year old age group, girls were better at pull ups than boys. Grin

Dumpyandabdabs · 16/05/2014 22:35

Such a lovely day today, went for a run this morning up in the hills, only 5k but did include three sets of 20 sec sprint intervals at full pelt, the dog thought it was great Grin

Going to go for a run at the local NT property on Sunday as they have a trim trail set up with cargo nets and pull up bars and things incorporated, thought it might be good fun (although I may just wait until nearer closing time so I don't have much of an audience)

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2014 23:50

B&W posted on the Maintainers thread that he was complimented again on his muscles.
Grin
More proof that pressups and pullups do work

Sounds like you have lovely runs, Dumpy. A dog makes outdoor exercise so much more fun. (Well, Errol burns calories dragging a reluctant dachs)

Good HIIT schedule, ChocTwist
I cba to monitor exercising HR and never found it useful - anyway, I'm dubious about gadget / software accuracy handling rapid changes with HIIT.
If you like a guide, some trainers use the 5 bands of RPE (Rate or Perceived Exercise) levels here, where HIIT peaks are level 10 (and Tabata / Mosely may be off the scale !)

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2014 23:54

Body Fat, Sports, Targets
I posted these tables in the Maintainers, very relevant here too:

5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
5:2 Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 2: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)
OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 17/05/2014 22:53

Betsey - presumably pre-pubescent children don't have much difference... but on average the power:weight ratio (which must hugely affect bodyweight exercises in general and pull-ups in particular) is bound to be affected positively for men (testosterone->muscle) and negatively for women (see BCs %fat charts).

Pleasant rest day today for me, bit of gardening - nice not to have to wimp out of buying full-sized bags of compost now! Managed to get that aforementioned dog as far as the postbox this morning with only one collar slip and one short carry. Hmm

BetsyBell · 18/05/2014 07:21

Errol It was the bird-weight children who performed best. Unsurprisingly.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2014 11:29

Yes, I've noticed the matchstick kids do this effortlessly, although only the lads do pullups without encouragement. So, Betsy, you may have changed future habits for those girls.
Smile

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 18/05/2014 17:45

Betsy my eldest DD is 5 and a puny wee thing dainty. I'm amazed at the things she can do with her body.

She can certainly 'hang' for longer than me...haven't asked her to do a pull up though!

I'm hoping that unlike me, my kids maintain their flexibility and strength into adulthood.

BetsyBell · 19/05/2014 11:11

mazzle Now you're firmly in the 'exercise is great' mindset I'm sure your DCs will be inspired and motivated to keep up their good habits! I know mine like to tell people how fit their parents are Grin. All memories of once blobby and jiggly mummy have been banished in favour of a mum who zaps out several times a week to do martial arts and running. They are proud of us (dad just did his first 10k competition run at the weekend) and do see being fit, eating healthily while being happy and having fun as the norm.

How many of us can say we grew up with that? Certainly not me!

Baloostika · 19/05/2014 11:14

Hello everyone.
I'm back to exercising hard once againg after relaxing on it a lil while ago. My question is, what happens of I stay on a particular number if weight during strength training for like a month. I need to lose weight not but my arms are refusing to go down. Right now my routines are
DL -154
Squats - 132
OHP- 88
leg press -273
Lat pull down 110
BP - 110
bent over row - 88
I do 105 and some 7 5 and believe me when I say these numbers are difficult to achieve, I lift to failure on them.
What I mean is, with this routine and a weekly deficit, will lose weight and build muscle or lose BF?
I'm not too keen about gaining strength now knowing I can up this numbers with time.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2014 11:49

Baloostika Those numbers show you are lifting brilliantly.
Smile
You definitely don't need to lift heavier.
In fact, I recommend women be careful lifting too heavy weights, in case of pelvic floor injury.

Do keep lifting some weight a few days per week to avoid losing muscle which would lower your TDEE: with a calorie deficit, some of the lost weight will be muscle unless you keep working your muscles.

Also, lifting burns calories too, including during the 24 hrs after lifting, when the muscle fibres are being repaired.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 20/05/2014 00:52

Well I can finally report that I'm now up to 20 reps x 4 in all my 6kg kettlebell exercises! It's taken me exactly 6 weeks and 4 days! Grin

I'll probably consolidate for several weeks, before looking for an upgrade.

And I've now ditched the xfit press-ups - I'm up to 15 x 4 proper ones, which I now find easier than the xfit ones. Weird!

ChocolateTwist · 20/05/2014 09:48

Thanks BigChoc - I don't actually monitor my heart rate on purpose, the machine just does it. I try to judge my effort level by imagining the lady in the Horizon programme shouting at me whatever she shouted and if I can push harder, I do... I think it is a good indicator that I've pushed myself hard that after the final interview I often can't pedal at all and have to sit on the floor a bit before I get up and walk to cool down...
This is such an inspiring thread, everyone making progress all the time! Thanks for giving me something to aim for :)

BetsyBell · 20/05/2014 11:04

I've just been doing various body fat percentage charts and this one has the most options for entering measurements of various bits of your body, but no chart to see where you should be! I used the chart in the OP link to check against.

I'm coming out at 25-26% on most of them, which at age 38, puts me well within a good healthy range and I am continuing to make improvements (BMI currently 22.2 and I'm at my lowest weight despite gaining muscle everywhere).

Two years ago (almost to the day) I took part in a study which involved a DEXA body composition scan, which put me at 45% fat at the time, BMI 27, and at that point I'd already lost 2 stone!

I'm really wishing I could re-do the study to get all the measurements again (it included lots of blood work too) now I'm so much fitter - it would be amazing to compare and contrast the results.

This post is really to say that 5:2 plus bigchoc's exercise advice really works. I am a transformed woman.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/05/2014 11:18

Thanks Betsy, will have to give that a go - though not sure I'll want to post the results. It did seem to me that the other tape-measure based calculators missed places I carry fat like thighs!

ErrolTheDragon · 20/05/2014 11:30

28.5 which is pretty much the middle of healthy range so not too bad after all.

BetsyBell · 20/05/2014 16:53
Grin
Swipe left for the next trending thread